frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Ask HN: Why hasn't Swift gained wider adoption for backend?

7•grandimam•7mo ago

Comments

xp84•7mo ago
I would compare to other languages which share a primary trait, namely 'Invented by and backed by big proprietary closed-source-specialist company.'

Take C# for instance: Microsoft has a rich history of being very serious about the enterprise, and was there on the ground floor of the '.com' days with popular server software. MS leveraged knowledge developers had writing Visual Basic with VBS and also Jscript, a JS variant, to popularize ASP, then convinced people to move to C# which let you do both server and desktop with the same knowledge. And all this ran on the Microsoft server OS, a popular product, out of the box.

Let's compare this with Swift. Apple has never, ever been serious about the enterprise, hasn't sold any servers during its whole lifetime, and while I'm sure you can run server side Swift on a real Linux server instead of just a Mac, its relative newness (newer than every popular language but Kotlin) means there would need to be an affirmative reason, a big tangible benefit, to convince anyone to either switch, or to start their whole career/company with Swift without ever learning anything else. Much the opposite in my humble opinion - you have Apple treating developers poorly with their aggressive rent-seeking behavior. I would never want to ditch another language that isn't controlled by one firm, to work on a platform that, though nominally 'OSS,' exists purely for Apple's benefit and is controlled by them.

Server-side Swift has one thing going for it: You can leverage your skills gained making iOS native stuff. Unfortunately, it seems to me that few companies besides indie 'Apple-only' devs even want to use 'iOS Swift' since it's limited to Apple platforms and most companies want cross-platform mobile apps. So the number of people out there who are 'Swift experts' and would find that to be the most compelling server-side environment is utterly dwarfed by people who have that level of mastery of JS, Python, Java, C#, Kotlin, PHP, Ruby, Go, etc. Which is of course a Catch-22, 'nobody uses server-side Swift because it's not popular enough to support a great community.'

To kick off a new project with a Swift backend would be to say "I trust Apple unconditionally, and also I have no intention of ever needing to hire anyone to help with this."

mattmanser•7mo ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Server
xp84•7mo ago
But that was dead by the time Swift came out. I apologize for my poor wording.
john_the_writer•7mo ago
I like the last bit. Hiring would be a nightmare. Most serious BE dev (myself included) don't have time to learn a new language that I can only use at a handful (or single company). I want the language I spend the most time with to be something I could take to a recruiter (should I need to).

I worked at a place that worked with Delphi, and for various reasons I had to use it exclusively for a few years. No recruiter would touch me. Not until I got some time with Rails did I have a chance to escape.

As a former mobile dev, I'd also like to add, being an app dev vs BE dev isn't just about the code either.. It's a very different way of looking at problems. The skills might transfer, but they're living in different worlds. The language isn't the only obstacle.

tssva•7mo ago
" Apple has never, ever been serious about the enterprise, hasn't sold any servers during its whole lifetime,"

Apple has most definitely sold servers during its lifetime. The Xserve line for example.

xp84•7mo ago
Excuse me, I worded it super poorly. I meant Swift's whole lifetime. The Xserve was long dead. I once "sold" XServes (was trained to, but nobody ever bought one from me) at Apple Retail.
benoau•7mo ago
Might make sense if you're an app developer but outside of that, even within that TBH, it's pretty niche.
manter•7mo ago
Swift is tightly bound to the Apple ecosystem (even though it can run outside of it), both in tooling, the ecosystem, and developer's perceptions.

These things all feed into each other.

If you're in the (vast, vast) majority of Swift developers then you're writing apps for iOS, MacOS, etc. This means outside of that context Swift goes from being a relatively popular language with a strong ecosystem to an incredibly niche one.

One angle where this could gain traction is devs writing a server side backend for their Apple app - but this use case is sliced apart in practice.

- Teams that start off wanting to use the same language for the app and the backend are likely to pick React Native or similar.

- The larger teams that want/need to write their app natively likely have devs that write the apps and devs that write the server code - so the desire the for language to be the same is lower.

- The pool of developers you could hire that have backend experience and swift experience is much much smaller than either of those two factors alone.

On a pure 'is this language good enough for the problem' level - sure, swift could do the job.

But that's also true of almost every other language.

timeon•7mo ago
Just my anecdote. I was excited about Swift when it came out. Then I realized that I can't use my own apps on my phone for more than a week. Which, unfortunately, led my to use web technologies. And with that into completely different tech stack for backend/frontend.
frou_dh•7mo ago
Because it's a massively competitive space, and being passably good ("Hey guys, the toolchain and these libraries do actually run on Linux. Also we have XYZ Working Group.") is not sufficient to get peoples' attention.
carlhung•7mo ago
It is a pretty shit language. I use Swift for living. It has a lot of special keywords, Features, etc. they keep adding new keywords to fix specific issues. it is a distasteful language.

Quantum computers will not steal your bitcoins, even if they can

https://bfswa.substack.com/p/quantum-computers-will-not-steal
1•speckx•2m ago•0 comments

Building Effective Agents

https://simonwillison.net/2024/Dec/20/building-effective-agents/
1•gearnode•2m ago•0 comments

Expect Subvertations

https://knhash.in/expect-subvertations/
1•kn81198•4m ago•0 comments

Linus Torvalds vs. Ambiguous Abstractions

https://read.thecoder.cafe/p/linus-torvalds-ambiguous-abstractions
1•ingve•4m ago•0 comments

Social media is dying. The internet is dying. Where do we go from here?

https://thesocialjuice.substack.com/p/social-media-is-dying-the-internet
2•jaskaransainiz•5m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Better Agents CLI

https://github.com/langwatch/better-agents
1•jangletown•5m ago•0 comments

Show HN: I created an app to visualize your Uber rides

https://github.com/Gigacore/TripMeter
1•Gigacore•6m ago•0 comments

Microsoft to secure Entra ID sign-ins from script injection attacks

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-to-secure-entra-id-sign-ins-from-extern...
1•fleahunter•6m ago•0 comments

Boeing's Next Starliner Flight Will Only Be Allowed to Carry Cargo

https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/11/nasa-confirms-that-starliners-next-mission-will-be-cargo-only/
1•TMWNN•8m ago•0 comments

Why Is Crypto Crashing?

https://theweek.com/business/why-crypto-crashing
2•RickJWagner•8m ago•0 comments

Why AI economics are fundamentally broken

https://leaddev.com/ai/why-ai-economics-are-fundamentally-broken
1•scarey101•9m ago•0 comments

Name Generator Japanese Tool

https://namegeneratorjapanese.com/
1•SinanW•10m ago•1 comments

Belgium grinds to a halt in three-day general strike against austerity measures

https://euobserver.com/labour/ar67918671
1•robtherobber•10m ago•0 comments

Post-mortem of Shai-Hulud attack on November 24th, 2025

https://posthog.com/blog/nov-24-shai-hulud-attack-post-mortem
1•makepanic•11m ago•0 comments

The Download: AI and the economy, and slop for the masses

https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/11/26/1128459/the-download-ai-and-the-economy-and-slop-for-...
1•fleahunter•11m ago•0 comments

A Smarter Acme Challenge for a Multi-CDN World

https://www.fastly.com/blog/smarter-acme-challenge-for-multi-cdn-world
1•speckx•13m ago•0 comments

Deutsche Bahn [Germany's railways] saves millions with 3D-printed spare parts

https://www.heise.de/en/news/Deutsche-Bahn-saves-millions-with-3D-printed-spare-parts-11091693.html
1•mschuster91•15m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Give your AI coding agents the full context, ship production-ready code

https://artiforge.ai
1•riktar•17m ago•0 comments

Putting Spec Kit Through Its Paces: Idea or Reinvented Waterfall?

https://blog.scottlogic.com/2025/11/26/putting-spec-kit-through-its-paces-radical-idea-or-reinven...
1•ColinEberhardt•17m ago•0 comments

No AI December 2025

https://noaidecember.com/
2•sandruso•19m ago•0 comments

Transcription, Censorship and Sanitized Expression

https://building138.com/transcription-censorship
1•usernamed7•19m ago•0 comments

Don't Do Snake Oil Writing

https://ploum.net/2025-11-26-snake-oil-writing.html
1•ploum•21m ago•0 comments

Thinning Layers

https://writethat.blog/layers.html
1•psarna•23m ago•0 comments

All that is solid melts into code

https://www.robinsloan.com/lab/all-that-is-solid/
1•encyclopedism•26m ago•0 comments

Show HN: TheNext.CEO – Discover your CEO Archetype in 15 minutes

https://thenext.ceo
1•ajanthanmani•26m ago•1 comments

Statistical Process Control: A Practitioner's Guide (2022)

https://entropicthoughts.com/statistical-process-control-a-practitioners-guide
1•kqr•27m ago•0 comments

A CSI driver powered by rclone that makes mounting 50 cloud storage providers

https://github.com/veloxpack/csi-driver-rclone
1•paulgrammer•27m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Turn Your NAS into an AI Subtitle Machine (Open Source, Local)

https://subtitlesdog.com/en/nas-subtitler
1•mrqjr•28m ago•0 comments

Indie game developers have a new sales pitch: being 'AI free'

https://www.theverge.com/entertainment/827650/indie-developers-gen-ai-nexon-arc-raiders
1•01-_-•28m ago•0 comments

Why Use React?

https://adactio.com/journal/22265
2•AIBytes•32m ago•0 comments