frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Ask HN: Why hasn't Swift gained wider adoption for backend?

7•grandimam•1y ago

Comments

xp84•1y ago
I would compare to other languages which share a primary trait, namely 'Invented by and backed by big proprietary closed-source-specialist company.'

Take C# for instance: Microsoft has a rich history of being very serious about the enterprise, and was there on the ground floor of the '.com' days with popular server software. MS leveraged knowledge developers had writing Visual Basic with VBS and also Jscript, a JS variant, to popularize ASP, then convinced people to move to C# which let you do both server and desktop with the same knowledge. And all this ran on the Microsoft server OS, a popular product, out of the box.

Let's compare this with Swift. Apple has never, ever been serious about the enterprise, hasn't sold any servers during its whole lifetime, and while I'm sure you can run server side Swift on a real Linux server instead of just a Mac, its relative newness (newer than every popular language but Kotlin) means there would need to be an affirmative reason, a big tangible benefit, to convince anyone to either switch, or to start their whole career/company with Swift without ever learning anything else. Much the opposite in my humble opinion - you have Apple treating developers poorly with their aggressive rent-seeking behavior. I would never want to ditch another language that isn't controlled by one firm, to work on a platform that, though nominally 'OSS,' exists purely for Apple's benefit and is controlled by them.

Server-side Swift has one thing going for it: You can leverage your skills gained making iOS native stuff. Unfortunately, it seems to me that few companies besides indie 'Apple-only' devs even want to use 'iOS Swift' since it's limited to Apple platforms and most companies want cross-platform mobile apps. So the number of people out there who are 'Swift experts' and would find that to be the most compelling server-side environment is utterly dwarfed by people who have that level of mastery of JS, Python, Java, C#, Kotlin, PHP, Ruby, Go, etc. Which is of course a Catch-22, 'nobody uses server-side Swift because it's not popular enough to support a great community.'

To kick off a new project with a Swift backend would be to say "I trust Apple unconditionally, and also I have no intention of ever needing to hire anyone to help with this."

mattmanser•1y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Server
xp84•1y ago
But that was dead by the time Swift came out. I apologize for my poor wording.
john_the_writer•1y ago
I like the last bit. Hiring would be a nightmare. Most serious BE dev (myself included) don't have time to learn a new language that I can only use at a handful (or single company). I want the language I spend the most time with to be something I could take to a recruiter (should I need to).

I worked at a place that worked with Delphi, and for various reasons I had to use it exclusively for a few years. No recruiter would touch me. Not until I got some time with Rails did I have a chance to escape.

As a former mobile dev, I'd also like to add, being an app dev vs BE dev isn't just about the code either.. It's a very different way of looking at problems. The skills might transfer, but they're living in different worlds. The language isn't the only obstacle.

tssva•1y ago
" Apple has never, ever been serious about the enterprise, hasn't sold any servers during its whole lifetime,"

Apple has most definitely sold servers during its lifetime. The Xserve line for example.

xp84•1y ago
Excuse me, I worded it super poorly. I meant Swift's whole lifetime. The Xserve was long dead. I once "sold" XServes (was trained to, but nobody ever bought one from me) at Apple Retail.
benoau•1y ago
Might make sense if you're an app developer but outside of that, even within that TBH, it's pretty niche.
manter•1y ago
Swift is tightly bound to the Apple ecosystem (even though it can run outside of it), both in tooling, the ecosystem, and developer's perceptions.

These things all feed into each other.

If you're in the (vast, vast) majority of Swift developers then you're writing apps for iOS, MacOS, etc. This means outside of that context Swift goes from being a relatively popular language with a strong ecosystem to an incredibly niche one.

One angle where this could gain traction is devs writing a server side backend for their Apple app - but this use case is sliced apart in practice.

- Teams that start off wanting to use the same language for the app and the backend are likely to pick React Native or similar.

- The larger teams that want/need to write their app natively likely have devs that write the apps and devs that write the server code - so the desire the for language to be the same is lower.

- The pool of developers you could hire that have backend experience and swift experience is much much smaller than either of those two factors alone.

On a pure 'is this language good enough for the problem' level - sure, swift could do the job.

But that's also true of almost every other language.

timeon•1y ago
Just my anecdote. I was excited about Swift when it came out. Then I realized that I can't use my own apps on my phone for more than a week. Which, unfortunately, led my to use web technologies. And with that into completely different tech stack for backend/frontend.
frou_dh•1y ago
Because it's a massively competitive space, and being passably good ("Hey guys, the toolchain and these libraries do actually run on Linux. Also we have XYZ Working Group.") is not sufficient to get peoples' attention.
carlhung•1y ago
It is a pretty shit language. I use Swift for living. It has a lot of special keywords, Features, etc. they keep adding new keywords to fix specific issues. it is a distasteful language.

Learning to Write (Again)

https://jampa.bearblog.dev/learning-to-write-again/
1•tjampa•3m ago•0 comments

The latest X algorithm has been published to GitHub

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/2055277918633562153
3•guiambros•9m ago•0 comments

A Tale of Two File Names

https://tomgalvin.uk/blog/gen/2015/06/09/filenames/
1•GranPC•11m ago•1 comments

Refray – ∞-way RW Git sync tool and auto conflict resolution, for leaving GitHub

https://github.com/MaigoLabs/refray
1•azaneko•11m ago•0 comments

Recent Developments in LLM Architectures: KV Sharing, MHC, Compressed Attention

https://magazine.sebastianraschka.com/p/recent-developments-in-llm-architectures
1•pretext•12m ago•0 comments

I Found Ultra-Pure Quantum Crystals in an Abandoned Mine in the Atacama Desert

https://medium.com/@breid.at/ultra-pure-quantum-crystals-from-an-abandoned-mine-in-a-mysterious-d...
1•vi_sextus_vi•15m ago•0 comments

We Built a Web That Consumes Us

https://gist.github.com/motyar/e53a2c23362a5d5a73a6895e79ee3d20
2•motyar•17m ago•0 comments

'News will find me' mindset makes people trust algorithms and online networks

https://www.psu.edu/news/bellisario-college-communications/story/news-will-find-me-mindset-makes-...
1•thunderbong•20m ago•0 comments

Async I/O in Zig 0.16, today

https://lalinsky.com/2026/05/11/async-io-in-zig-016-today.html
1•signa11•23m ago•0 comments

Reasons to Use Std:SIMD

https://github.com/NoNaeAbC/std_simd
2•quasigloam•31m ago•0 comments

AI Faceless Video Generator for TikTok, Shorts and Reels

https://faceless-video.com/
1•duanhjlt•32m ago•0 comments

Ultime Western

http://www.ultimewestern.com/
1•hyperific•33m ago•0 comments

Fourth Television Network

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_television_network
1•Ariarule•34m ago•0 comments

The Blind Witness: AI observer with fu

https://theairtgroup.com/blind-witness.html
1•simonaitchison•35m ago•0 comments

TheArchiveBase – A Lightweight Distributed Search Engine

https://thearchivebase.com/
1•tanvirredwan•36m ago•1 comments

Trillions of miles of data: Your car is spying on you

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20260513-your-car-is-spying-on-you-its-about-to-get-worse
1•1659447091•37m ago•0 comments

Fly.io is getting rid of GPU-accelerated machines

https://fly.io/docs/gpus/
4•abound•39m ago•1 comments

I Rewrote My Project from Clojure to Gleam [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEP6pWmxWeI
1•TheWiggles•40m ago•0 comments

SF vibes are frenetic over the divide in outcomes and career uncertainty

https://www.techmeme.com/260516/p9
2•danorama•53m ago•1 comments

SeeFlow – Architecture diagrams that run

https://seeflow.dev
1•tuongaz•55m ago•0 comments

Lord of the Flies: A Harmful Distortion of Children's Nature

https://petergray.substack.com/p/114-lord-of-the-flies-a-harmful-distortion
1•Ariarule•56m ago•0 comments

Unmanned lab opens with robots at work as researchers push AI, automation

https://japantoday.com/category/tech/unmanned-lab-opens-with-robots-at-work-as-researchers-push-a...
1•pseudolus•1h ago•0 comments

Eric Weinstein: "I Was Wrong About UFOs " [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjJTj_ZFXU
1•keepamovin•1h ago•0 comments

Ccstory – Weekly recap of what you did in Claude Code

https://github.com/atomchung/ccstory
1•atomtw•1h ago•0 comments

Bear spray is exploding in the trash near Yellowstone National Park

https://www.sfgate.com/national-parks/article/exploding-bear-spray-yellowstone-22244713.php
7•turtlegrids•1h ago•4 comments

2026 will be a HVAC contractor bloodbath

https://www.reddit.com/r/heatpumps/s/APgJ68ZSyz
3•ssuds•1h ago•1 comments

LLMs and the Epistemic Apocalypse

https://haversine.substack.com/p/the-slow-creep-of-epistemic-apocalypse
1•MakeAJiraTicket•1h ago•1 comments

How to buy cheap Claude tokens in China

https://www.chinatalk.media/p/how-to-buy-cheap-claude-tokens-in
2•RyanShook•1h ago•0 comments

Science Behind Too Much Homework for Lower School Kids

https://restingrichface.substack.com/p/im-quitting-my-third-graders-homework
3•_RRF•1h ago•1 comments

Ascetic Computing

https://ratfactor.com/ascetic-computing
2•RohanAdwankar•1h ago•0 comments