frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Ask HN: Why hasn't Swift gained wider adoption for backend?

7•grandimam•1y ago

Comments

xp84•1y ago
I would compare to other languages which share a primary trait, namely 'Invented by and backed by big proprietary closed-source-specialist company.'

Take C# for instance: Microsoft has a rich history of being very serious about the enterprise, and was there on the ground floor of the '.com' days with popular server software. MS leveraged knowledge developers had writing Visual Basic with VBS and also Jscript, a JS variant, to popularize ASP, then convinced people to move to C# which let you do both server and desktop with the same knowledge. And all this ran on the Microsoft server OS, a popular product, out of the box.

Let's compare this with Swift. Apple has never, ever been serious about the enterprise, hasn't sold any servers during its whole lifetime, and while I'm sure you can run server side Swift on a real Linux server instead of just a Mac, its relative newness (newer than every popular language but Kotlin) means there would need to be an affirmative reason, a big tangible benefit, to convince anyone to either switch, or to start their whole career/company with Swift without ever learning anything else. Much the opposite in my humble opinion - you have Apple treating developers poorly with their aggressive rent-seeking behavior. I would never want to ditch another language that isn't controlled by one firm, to work on a platform that, though nominally 'OSS,' exists purely for Apple's benefit and is controlled by them.

Server-side Swift has one thing going for it: You can leverage your skills gained making iOS native stuff. Unfortunately, it seems to me that few companies besides indie 'Apple-only' devs even want to use 'iOS Swift' since it's limited to Apple platforms and most companies want cross-platform mobile apps. So the number of people out there who are 'Swift experts' and would find that to be the most compelling server-side environment is utterly dwarfed by people who have that level of mastery of JS, Python, Java, C#, Kotlin, PHP, Ruby, Go, etc. Which is of course a Catch-22, 'nobody uses server-side Swift because it's not popular enough to support a great community.'

To kick off a new project with a Swift backend would be to say "I trust Apple unconditionally, and also I have no intention of ever needing to hire anyone to help with this."

mattmanser•1y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Server
xp84•1y ago
But that was dead by the time Swift came out. I apologize for my poor wording.
john_the_writer•1y ago
I like the last bit. Hiring would be a nightmare. Most serious BE dev (myself included) don't have time to learn a new language that I can only use at a handful (or single company). I want the language I spend the most time with to be something I could take to a recruiter (should I need to).

I worked at a place that worked with Delphi, and for various reasons I had to use it exclusively for a few years. No recruiter would touch me. Not until I got some time with Rails did I have a chance to escape.

As a former mobile dev, I'd also like to add, being an app dev vs BE dev isn't just about the code either.. It's a very different way of looking at problems. The skills might transfer, but they're living in different worlds. The language isn't the only obstacle.

tssva•1y ago
" Apple has never, ever been serious about the enterprise, hasn't sold any servers during its whole lifetime,"

Apple has most definitely sold servers during its lifetime. The Xserve line for example.

xp84•1y ago
Excuse me, I worded it super poorly. I meant Swift's whole lifetime. The Xserve was long dead. I once "sold" XServes (was trained to, but nobody ever bought one from me) at Apple Retail.
benoau•1y ago
Might make sense if you're an app developer but outside of that, even within that TBH, it's pretty niche.
manter•1y ago
Swift is tightly bound to the Apple ecosystem (even though it can run outside of it), both in tooling, the ecosystem, and developer's perceptions.

These things all feed into each other.

If you're in the (vast, vast) majority of Swift developers then you're writing apps for iOS, MacOS, etc. This means outside of that context Swift goes from being a relatively popular language with a strong ecosystem to an incredibly niche one.

One angle where this could gain traction is devs writing a server side backend for their Apple app - but this use case is sliced apart in practice.

- Teams that start off wanting to use the same language for the app and the backend are likely to pick React Native or similar.

- The larger teams that want/need to write their app natively likely have devs that write the apps and devs that write the server code - so the desire the for language to be the same is lower.

- The pool of developers you could hire that have backend experience and swift experience is much much smaller than either of those two factors alone.

On a pure 'is this language good enough for the problem' level - sure, swift could do the job.

But that's also true of almost every other language.

timeon•1y ago
Just my anecdote. I was excited about Swift when it came out. Then I realized that I can't use my own apps on my phone for more than a week. Which, unfortunately, led my to use web technologies. And with that into completely different tech stack for backend/frontend.
frou_dh•1y ago
Because it's a massively competitive space, and being passably good ("Hey guys, the toolchain and these libraries do actually run on Linux. Also we have XYZ Working Group.") is not sufficient to get peoples' attention.
carlhung•1y ago
It is a pretty shit language. I use Swift for living. It has a lot of special keywords, Features, etc. they keep adding new keywords to fix specific issues. it is a distasteful language.

Whitegoods that aren't, but should be

https://www.rubenerd.au/whitegoods-that-arent-but-should-be/
1•Tomte•28s ago•0 comments

QR and Barcode Scanner

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.qrcode.scanner.barcode.reader.qr.generator&hl=e...
1•karlnelsone•1m ago•1 comments

China may restrict foreign access to Chinese open-source AI models

https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/china-weighs-silicon-curtain-around-so...
1•crowd51•3m ago•0 comments

Can AI Answer the $3T Question?

https://techcrunch.com/2026/07/09/can-ai-answer-the-3-trillion-question/
1•mjs06•3m ago•0 comments

The Future of Meta Superintelligence: A 1 Year Progress Update

https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/the-future-of-meta-superintelligence
1•mji•5m ago•0 comments

Old Photo to New Photo Online

https://oldphototonewphoto.com
1•keepscreenawake•6m ago•0 comments

Ask HN: How are you hiring engineers now?

1•nshmadhani•8m ago•2 comments

Show HN: Banana Battle – DOS Gorillas rebuilt as a web game

https://michael480th.github.io/Banana-Battle/
1•arrozconcosas•10m ago•1 comments

Anyone Mosh Coding Yet?

https://moshcoding.com
1•buffer_overlord•17m ago•0 comments

Why Industry 5.0 is more than AI-powered analytics

https://geekyants.com/blog/industry-40-built-visibility-industry-50-must-automate-decisions-says-...
2•Krishnaswaroop•19m ago•1 comments

Soaring 'McMansion' insurance prices create opening for commercial group

https://www.ft.com/content/e5c6684b-f401-405a-86f2-b5e96cb535a1
1•petethomas•21m ago•0 comments

Bayeux Tapestry delivered to British Museum in dead of night

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly9r54e5r4o
1•zeristor•22m ago•0 comments

Elvebredd for iOS

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/elvebredd/id6760745063
1•klausmikelson•23m ago•0 comments

The Feel-Good Story of the World Cup Is Too Good to Be True

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/06/world-cup-tourists-america/687572/
1•mmooss•24m ago•0 comments

Promising inference software, written in Zig

https://zml.ai/posts/llmd/
1•sachamorard•28m ago•0 comments

Turn off this Meta setting before someone generates AI images of you

https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/ai/2026/07/turn-off-this-meta-setting-before-someone-generates-...
3•taubek•31m ago•1 comments

TinyToT – Tree of Thoughts Inference Server

https://github.com/guilt/TinyToT
1•vkaku•31m ago•1 comments

AI subscriptions cut quotas and raised prices in early 2026

https://wellstsai.com/en/post/ai-subscription-shakeout-2026-claude/
1•Tint6666•33m ago•0 comments

Reuters World News Podcast

https://www.reuters.com/podcasts/reuters-world-news/
1•gurjeet•35m ago•0 comments

China's provinces asked to bail out risk-fraught regional banks

https://www.chinabankingnews.com/p/chinas-provinces-asked-to-bail-out
2•andsoitis•45m ago•0 comments

Publishers Are Preparing to Opt Out of Google Search

https://www.adweek.com/media/publishers-opt-out-google-search/
8•giuliomagnifico•48m ago•0 comments

Lisp as the Maxwell's Equations of Software

https://michaelnielsen.org/ddi/lisp-as-the-maxwells-equations-of-software/
35•andsoitis•49m ago•1 comments

Experiment with tiny quantum universe: time 'arises' from changes in disorder

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/07/260709160632.htm
1•alok-g•49m ago•1 comments

Neuralwatt Doubling the Price

https://portal.neuralwatt.com/pricing
2•MehrdadKhnzd•51m ago•0 comments

The great AI data centre cover-up

https://www.ft.com/content/7800ba0f-1420-49fe-b260-9838632a19a4
2•1vuio0pswjnm7•58m ago•1 comments

AI Investors Buying Accounting Companies and Force Them to Use OpenAI [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dp98vEGWq0
2•xbmcuser•1h ago•0 comments

Zeno's Paradox and Infinite Sums – Lectures on Infinity (Lecture 1) [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y9p0yp8Mow
2•FillMaths•1h ago•0 comments

Italy privacy watchdog fines Character.ai owner over age-check failures

https://www.reuters.com/business/italy-privacy-watchdog-fines-characterai-owner-over-age-check-fa...
1•1vuio0pswjnm7•1h ago•0 comments

Hypeplan: Turn plans into terminal keynote speeches

https://github.com/martinrue/hypeplan
1•afisxisto•1h ago•1 comments

Semantic Fingerprinting Made Easy

https://github.com/thorwhalen/guise
1•ankitg12•1h ago•0 comments