Has there been a consensus on one? Is there a winner?
I love redis and will probably keep using it. Just curious.
There are the commit histories, the GitHub contribution graphs. Everything is public. The current code base was written for the majority by a few single folks, for another small amount of the sum of all random people in the community, for a smaller part by people that now work at ValKey.
> It is also hard to reconcile the claims that cloud providers do not contribute with the actual commits to the Redis repository. A quick examination of the commits since the 7.0.0 release using gitdm shows 967 commits over that time period:
Top changeset contributions by employer
(Unknown) 331 34.2%
Tencent 240 24.8%
Redis 189 19.5%
Alibaba 65 6.7%
Huawei 50 5.2%
Amazon.com 50 5.2%
Bytedance 19 2.0%
NetEase 13 1.3%
This is likely some partial data of some specific fork or alike.
Just because they don't have the same motives as you, doesn't stop it being a user freedom. Anything that shares the changes and improvements is a user improvement.
Sounds like SSPL did not yield the desired outcome.
Glad AGPL is an option now.
But I doubt that was the outcome that they hoped for. They created a large and successful competitor that by nature of being a fork does exactly the same thing. It's pretty hard to compete with yourself and the differentiate from your own product.
Honestly, I think Redis Inc. was better off when there was just one code base. AGPL just marginalizes them further. It's not an acceptable license for many corporate legal departments. So, it would necessitate buying a commercial license for such companies. I.e. Fortune 500 companies, public companies, and pretty much anything with a legal department worthy of the name. Note how Redis advertises AGPLv3 as "one" of the available licenses. The whole point of that license is selling commercial licenses.
Valkey is at this point stable and supported and a drop in replacement. It's pretty much the default choice for anyone not interested in buying a commercial license. That genie isn't going back in the bottle with this license choice.
More importantly, Valkey is a pretty active Github project with dozens of contributors in the last month. More than double those in Redis. Those commits aren't going to Redis. And Redis still requires the right to re-license your commits if you try to contribute. That's how they were able to pull this stunt to begin with. I doubt a lot of the Valkey contributors will be moving back to that status quo.
And for my personal usage, Rails 8 has moved Redis functionality into the database by default, which works fine.
Databases could always do what redis did. Redis doesn't bring functionality to the table, it brings speed. If database caching, pub/sub, and streams are good enough for your use case, there was never a reason to pay for an extra instance just to stand up redis.
If you don’t like it, don’t use AGPLv3 software. Those of us who do like it will keep writing AGPLv3 software.
If you modify GPL code you are expected to open source the changes, AGPL adapts that to the networked world, if you modify AGPL code to serve something, you should open source those changes too, otherwise you're violating the original spirit of GPL which was designed in a time that was not as perpetually internet (and SaaS) driven as today.
If you want a true free license, BSD or MIT have you covered, but then you shouldn't expect corporations to give back.
A good example of what happens if companies don't give back is Linux VS the various BSD's. BSD is a lot more popular in appliances than you might otherwise believe but the popularity is starting to wane as Linux (despite GPL) has improved so much with companies giving back that the "free license" BSD is no longer being seen as good enough in some cases. People do not tend to give back to the BSD's.
[0]: https://blog.jamesbayley.com/2014/01/17/gpl-living-with-canc...
I love the BSD license, but now who says that AGPL is a cancer is making a big favor to the few huge companies that want to abuse the original dream that spawned modern and open software. Times changes, the best license to use change with times.
RMS has long expressed concerns about "Service as a Software Substitute" [1], and I think he hesitated to endorse the AGPL because it would conflict with his philosophy on the dangers of "Service as a Software Substitute".
Henry Poole should be given credit for raising the concern; Bradley M. Kuhn and Eben Moglen should be given the credit for advancing the license to address the concern.
It took a long time for the Free Software Foundation to accept Affero versions of the GPL under their stewardship with the release of AGPLv3.
So, perhaps he did understand before many people that services posed some challenges for his social movement. But it's my belief that he favored self-reliance and maximum "freedom" by running computer programs on hardware you own yourself as the remedy, rather than extending copyleft obligations to reach over the network.
[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
Good, you can think it is cancer and stay away from it. You don't like it, don't use it. It's like those bright colored poisonous frogs from the Amazon. That's better than some newly made up license that's different than anything else, and you have to wonder how it would hold up in practice.
While it's likely an easy process to drop in valkey, creating the new instances, migrating apps to those new instances, and making sure there's not some hidden regression (even though it's "drop in") all takes time.
At a minimum, 1 or 2 hours per app optimistically.
My company has hundreds of apps (hurray microservices). That's where "hundreds of hours" seems pretty reasonable to me.
We don't have a lot of redis use in the company, but if we did it'd have taken a bit of time to switch over.
Edit: Dead before I could respond but I figured it was worthwhile to respond.
> It's literally just redis with a different name, what is there to test?
I've seen this happen quite a bit in opensource where a "x just named y" also happens to include tiny changes that actually conflict with the way we use it. For example, maybe some api doesn't guarantee order but our app (in a silly manor) relied on the order anyways. A bug on us, for sure, but not something that would surface until an update of redis or this switch over.
It can also be the case that we were relying on an older version of redis, the switchover to valkey necessitates that we now bring in the new changes to redis that we may not have tested.
These things certainly are unlikely (which is why 1 or 2 hours as an estimate, it'd take more if these are more common problems). Yet, they do and have happened to me with other dependency updates.
At a minimum, simply making sure someone didn't fat finger the new valkey addresses or mess up the terraform for the deployment will take time to test and verify.
The part you are thinking of is not the time consuming part.
And who knows if someone adopted post-fork features?
If this is a production system that supports the core business, hundreds of hours seems pretty reasonable. For a small operation that can afford to YOLO it, sure, it should be pretty easy.
I wasn't aware the license had any negative affect on private internal use.
Now consider a no-down-time migration. How long do you think that'll take to engineer and execute?
did you switch out the client or something? maybe the problem is not using pluggable adapters? is your business logic coupled to the particular database client API? oof.
I know the cluster clients are different (been there, done that) but hundreds of hours, seriously? or was that just hyperbole?
If valkey is working, why spend that time reverting to redis, when you could be spending it on things that are actually going to provide value?
And we're honestly not large. For a mid size company, hundreds hours sound reasonable. For a big company the amount of work must be truly staggering.
Valkey.
It's better than the previous state of course, but it would have been even better if the previous license change didn't happen.
As the french people say: fool me once, shame on you...
But in seriousness, the chances of valkey going closed source are low. It's run by Linux Foundation. It would be like suggesting that Node.js might go closed source...
Some code under a 3 clause BSD and some under AGPLv3 could be interesting.
But maybe Valkey should switch to GPLv3 instead to correct this imbalance.
So either they relicense, or they can't take code from Redis but Redis can take code from Valkey.
However, if the intention was the other way (to allow valkey to take code from redis), valkey should just go for AGPL as well, there is little reason to pick GPL if the code sharing would be the motivation for the license change.
In theory, one would not be able to offer a combined program under other licenses (in particular, RSALv2 and SSPLv1), as those licenses have conflicts with GPL obligations.
Direct contributions to the Redis project avoid this issue via a separate Contributor License Agreement. It would only mean that Redis developers could not unilaterally copy code from Valkey.
I'm not saying that the Valkey community should do this. Personally, I think it's better off as a BSD-3 licensed project, with the community fulfilling the promise made by others that it would always be that way.
The products (commercialized open source) that are often chosen by and championed by developers as opposed to executives see the harm that a bait and switch has on their popularity. With their competitors being more permissive, I don't see many devs moving back unless Valkey loses significant feature parity.
[1] https://ir.elastic.co/news/news-details/2024/Elastic-Announc...
A big part of that is API design - I can’t think of another system that is as well thought out as the Redis API - it’s deceptively simple and because of that I didn’t have to wait for client libraries to incorporate the new Redis features - they just work cause they all speak RESP and I can just send raw commands.
All of this is to say that I was really happy to hear Antirez was back working on Redis and it’s paying off in more ways than I could have imagined. People can use valkey or whatever they want as an alternative - but I like Redis because it’s always pushing forward and letting me explore new things that otherwise wouldn’t feel as “at my fingertips” as it does in Redis.
I have a great deal of respect for antirez and recgnize him as a kind and benevolent member of the FOSS community, but no matter what Redis, Inc. announced or does, they have lost my trust for good, and I will continue to use Redis forks for as long as they exist.
I imagine they will now require copyright assignment or something like that for external contributors to be able to relicense new code under a commercial license.
Amazon gets to make millions off of the thing you built.
"Equitable source" licenses with MAU / ARR limits, hyperscaler resale limits, and AGPL-like "entire stack must be open" clauses is the way to go. It's a "fuck you" to Amazon, Google, and Microsoft in particular and leaves you untouched.
Open source today is hyperscaler serfdom. Very few orgs are running Redis on bare metal, and a equitable source license can be made to always support the bare metal case.
If you're okay with that, that's cool. But they'll profit off of your work and labor. And the worst part is that at scale, the advantages of the sum total of open source is used to compete with you and put price pressure on your salary and career options. To rephrase that, the hyperscalers are in a position to leverage open source to take advantage of market opportunities you cannot, and they can use that to compete with your business or competing businesses that might otherwise pay you better.
Open source needs anti-Google/Amazon/Microsoft clauses.
Not everyone thinks infectious copyleft / free software is a problem. But it will mean that if you use AGPL3, every part of your stack has to be open. That doesn't work for everyone.
This is why "equitable source" / "fair source" is gaining traction. You can use a license like Apache and add in clauses with MAU/ARR/Hyperscaler limits that allows practically everyone else to use your software.
AGPL does not and has not prevented hyperscalers from creating managed services for software licensed with it
That’s why mongo created the server side public license, which does require open sourcing the entire stack. MongoDB was AGPL before that
A CLA often tries to mitigate this by making contributors give the project owners special rights at the time of contribution.
(Note that even if relicensed, this itself can never revoke licenses granted for prior versions unless that license specifically had revocation written into it.)
https://github.com/microsoft/garnet/blob/main/LICENSE
It's MIT licensed?
By "fake", I mean Microsoft largely treats their Open Source codebases like they are closed-source, in-house proprietary codebases that they happen to let members of the public look at.
They'll accept a PR once in a while, but mostly it appears Issues and PR's are used as a free alternative to UserVoice.
Every decision is made behind closed doors (probably a MS Teams call actually), and you'll notice how top-heavy their staff is on these projects (half a dozen employees with "Manager" in their title on any given repo).
Beggars can't be choosers, and I'm glad they are dipping their toes into the FOSS water... but I don't really get FOSS vibes from their projects on Github.
What is it with .NET that compels you to lie?
Also FOSS and open contribution are different things, as sibling comment notes.
> What is it with .NET that compels you to lie?
People are often defensive when they've made poor choices.
I don't know how you can extinguish something that's MIT licensed and has a million copies around the world.
I wouldn't trust Microsoft near my open source code base in 3 centuries
They can extinguish it by just stealing all the code, and using their bigger marketplace advantage to become the defacto standard.
gestures wildly at the MIT-licenced VSCode codebase
Yes, they are not rug pulling the VSCode source but by locking down the marketplace (and never giving a truly open source VSCode, what developers think of as "VSCode") they are in the processes of locking out forks.
Fair point! good example of an attempt to extinguish.
While it may technically be open source due to it's license and you can literally go look at the source - Microsoft is operating these codebases as-if they are proprietary. Every decision is made out of public - and I would not be surprised to learn they have their own internal tracker for the "real" backlog items. You frequently see command/comments by Microsoft employees which clearly are triggering parts of their real backlog tracker, and near-zero discussion happens in Github by Microsoft employees.
Like I said, beggars can't be choosers and it's better to have this than nothing - but I don't really think Microsoft has grasped the true concept of FOSS as-of yet.
> Is SQLite not open-source?
Not really in my opinion either. There's no way to contribute at all... best you can do it raise hell on the forums about a particular issue you want to see fixed. So while it's Open Source in the strict sense, it's not Open Source in the general sense.
The sibling comments contain some sharper critique of Microsoft if you haven't read them yet.
Am I "fake open source"?
In my opinion, for something to be truly open source, I should be able to fix a bug I ran into, or implement a feature from the backlog and contribute it back upstream. If upstream is just going to ignore my contribution, pretend it doesn't exist, or reject it just because - then that codebase is just pretending to be open source.
That's not to say you are required to accept all contributions - I'm saying you should be open to contributions that A) save you time B) enhance the codebase or C) fix confirmed bugs.
In Microsoft's case - I don't see a lot of that going on. I see lots of Issues (bug reports), some PR's, but mostly opaque decision making, and complete silence on things the Corporate side of Microsoft doesn't want to comment on yet. Which is the beef - it's a corporate project run like it's proprietary but you can go look at the code. Again, better than nothing, but it's not really what I consider true open source.
It struggles a bit on certain types of workloads like hot keys, think heavy hitting a single sorted set. It's a cool architecture.
(I'd imagine implementing mechanisms for resilient storage and larger than memory data sizes would be the hard parts)
EDIT: Weird that being a program from Microsoft (well, it's Microsoft Research, so that probably explains it?) it has no installer and doesn't run as a service on its own.
Yes, of course.
> and moral level. Feeling betrayed is absolutely uncalled for.
Er, no, that's an unsubstantiated leap.
All those people that contributed, did so to the FOSS version. Their contributions live on in all the forks, both FOSS and proprietary (by Amazon & co., and Redis before today). So not sure where "betrayal" supposedly happened. Maybe when Amazon used their contributions too?
Never trust a company.
It is just that people don't hear what they don't want to hear. Every BSD or MIT is a loud and clear statement to deny the guarantee that derivative works will remain free and open.
Given there are viable alternatives out there, I see no reason why someone should invest any time in Redis (we are using Valkey as a replacement).
Neither company has built in a legal safety mechanism to prevent themselves from pulling the rug again later and both companies have shown themselves to be untrustworthy stewards. They came groveling back when it turned out that community goodwill really did matter after all, but this is definitely a "fool me twice, shame on me" situation.
Unless of course you are an AI startup.
I don't see any exploitation happening. As DHH said, the main reason engineers open source their work is to give a gift to the world.
Open source and free software licenses are basically the same (there are a few exceptions). For me, the difference is the focus. Free software cares about user freedom first.
s/can't/choose not to/
s/'re forced to//Edit: Doubled checked with gpt, no cases of “infection” yet, there has also been many talks about this license being very good
enterprise hates AGPL. AGPL is generally not a serious alternative to BSD/MIT in corpoland, because something something (A)GPL-poisoning.
whether it's true or not doesn't matter. what matters is whether big tech considers AGPL infectious - which they do.
The more aggressive a license you pick, the more likely a corporation won't want to use it. But that's by design. They're allowed to use it, even commercially - they just have to give the source code back. If the software is useful enough, they will. We should make software useful enough for corporations to consider the be benefits of using it to outweigh the cost of having to share their source code. (Also the more source you make them share, the less likely this is. The Linux kernel succeeded at this.
SSPL is controversial and untested (and goes against the business interests of the OSI so will never be box-tick certified compliant) and likely counterproductive if it means you have to share things like Windows. AGPL is the normal "aggressively free" license. GPL is mostly for those who haven't discovered AGPL yet and MIT is for those who don't agree in the goal of source code freedom to begin with.
what? why would you ask an LLM to generate some random text instead of looking up the actual answer?
Edit: Oops, typoed the license names.
This is factually untrue. If you want to link an AGPL blob into your app and ship it to customers, sure. In the vastly more common case where you're using a permissive client library[0] to connect to an AGPL server, there's no risk whatsoever.
At most, you might need to make your local changes to that server available to clients if they connect to it directly, as opposed to hosting a cloud SaaS setup where everything is internal to you. However, that's not the worst thing in the world. "Oh no, we improved a Free server our company depends on, and we have to share those improvements so that the person who gave us the server for free can also benefit from them" is pretty hard for me to sympathize with.
This is vastly more business-friendly than the non-FOSS SSPL.
[0]https://github.com/redis-rb/redis-client/blob/master/LICENSE...
Yeah, this is BS.
If you simply use AGPL software, it doesn't "infect" anything. If you *change* the AGPL software, you have to release the changes. It forces the big clouds to open source their Redis improvements.
Most of the readers of HN make their living from closed source software. You know well enough that non-hostile open source is just a market entry strategy and the type of copyright-driven maximally selfish capitalist markets just force open source to be not viable for a single company to thrive. Projects like Linux kernel are exceptional infrastructure projects that external companies support not build businesses just to ship.
This is completely, factually, unequivocally, incorrect.
You can connect to Redis using their first-party, MIT-licensed client library. You can write proprietary software using that library with no requirement whatsoever to release your software under any particular license (although of course you still have to comply with the MIT license's attribution requirements).
If all software connecting to the AGPL'd service runs internally, you're not obligated to share your local changes to that service. This covers the vast majority of use cases. Using WordPress with a Redis cache? This doesn't affect you.
If you host an AGPL'd version of a Redis server and your customers connect to it from their own networks, then the only obligation you have over the tried-and-true GPL is that you have to share changes you've made to your Redis server with users. If you use Redis packages as-is like almost everyone does, this doesn't affect you.
So literally the only people who have to care about Redis being under the AGPL now are those who don't want to pay Redis for a commercial license, who expose their Redis server to customers, and who've made local changes to their Redis server. Everyone else gets to keep using it like they always had.
Linked below is Google's own stance on why AGPL is banned:
https://opensource.google/documentation/reference/using/agpl...
That doesn't mean it's the right position for you, or for every situation. Many organizations with a higher levels of maturity in open source matters will take a more nuanced approach when it comes to AGPLv3 licensed software.
I'm quite fed up with this GAFAM FUD against the AGPL and the GPLv3.
You probably can't recover from a loss of trust in low single digit years unfortunately, but this is a good first step towards the project rebuilding the OSS community that existed around redis initially.
Thanks for fighting for this. Hopefully this shows more companies stuck on source-available that you can achieve similar goals with OSS licenses.
They made certain improvements later, but Redis 8 (see the release notes in my blog post if you are curious) improved this stuff a lot, too.
Also, Redis 8 contains a new data structure, Vector Sets, that allows to do many useful things, together with more probabilistic data structures, single hash fields expires, and many other stuff. It is not factually correct that ValKey has any features edge over Redis I believe. We will see in the next year which project takes the best development path: this is what really matters.
"They made certain improvements later", should be "we threw away the old implementation and built a better one."
2. Redis 8 improves the same idea, too, released today.
3. If you claim [in a different comment here] you provided a lot of code to Redis, why you didn't send a pull request for that? So, you are practically saying you were using, at Amazon, all the BSD code we provided, but could not provide an important part of the code to us? You see how broken such model was? At least stop defending it.
4. We can now copy the implementation: the parts are reversed (the irony!), and your code is BSD as our was for 15 years. When we avoid doing things like that, is because we have issues with how certain things were made.
5. I don't understand the motivations of you and other AWS people commenting here today. You work for a company that is creating issues to the OSS ecosystem: this is hard to deny. You cloned (and, yes, the license allowed for it) the code of Redis, and work on it so that hyperscalers can continued to do what they used to do. We bring Redis back to AGPL, and you are here to do the interests of Amazon in the comments. Did you see me commenting your stuff, when you release your things, with comments like "ah! But this is unfair"?
There is to make choices. I understand that it was cool to continue to work at a Redis fork, and part of the incredible thing open source is, is that forks survive in the hands of different teams (but design ideas can be misunderstood and projects may turn into other projects). So if you are happy to hack on ValKey, I hope you'll have the best experience out of it. But there is to make choices on how/when to interact.
I don't understand why so many people think that it's impossible to have open source in your heart while working for a big company in your day job. I don't understand why people who have dedicated a lot of their time and emotional energy to keep open source ways alive and help build a community effort are attacked because they work for a company that needs to be made the villain in the narrative.
Of course Redis is free to copy BSD licensed code that Valkey contributors add to the project [1]. I only wish that the blog post about this advancement in Redis would give some credit, rather than claiming "We also improved the performance of CRC64 calculations" [2].
We can all do better, and engage with one another with mutual respect and admiration for what has been freely given.
[1] https://github.com/redis/redis/pull/13638
[2] https://redis.io/blog/redis-8-0-m03-is-out-even-more-perform...
I'm not defending it, I'm trying to fix it. I want Amazon to contribute back. That's what I spend most of my time doing, but I can't just sit in a meeting and tell people we should give away code. It takes time to convince people that we should collaborate on the core and just compete on what we want to differentiate on. It takes time to convince people that building open-source in a vendor neutral space makes software that is better for everyone.
I hope that makes sense.
I don't think you want to sling that mud, unless Redis switched to being a nonprofit when I wasn't looking.
- 7.4 - Dual licensed under RSALv2/SSPLv1
- 7.2 and earlier - 3BSD
I mean, I remembered the whole Valkey saga after the license switch. I guess I'm just not as ideological as some here? I just thought "I need a fast in memory object store" and went with Redis as my default. I treat it like an appliance within my infrastructure.
I also vaguely recall antirez going back to Redis (the company) during the AI boom to work on vector extensions to Redis. I believe he is a big part of why Redis is such a rock-solid piece of tech. I am more confident in this product with him influencing the trajectory.
I also have the decision on license in the back of my mind. As I said, I am not an OSS zealot, but I do like the idea of an OSS license that has some protection against someone completely ripping off the code with no recourse. AGPL might be a decent compromise, especially with a dual license.
It meets all the criteria and the only difference from AGPL is how much source code you have to release and when - which is also the difference between GPL and AGPL. It has problems, but being closed source isn't one of them.
The OSI will never certify it, of course, because that would go against the business interests of the OSI members. The OSI is a consortium of companies who receive free labour from permissively licensed projects and to a lesser extent GPL projects, and it would like that to continue, which it cannot in practice under SSPL. The OSI article linked in a reply does not make a single point against the open-sourceness of the SSPL, and essentially just says they don't like it, and that some companies won't be able to comply, which is true of every free software license.
The FSF, Debian, etc haven't decided one way or another because it's not a very widespread license and they can just use valkey instead of wasting the effort.
[0]https://opensource.org/blog/the-sspl-is-not-an-open-source-l...
The OSI is captured entirely by corporate sponsors. Amazon was paying a full-time salary a year to the OSI when the SSPL issue happened, the OSI had no ability to take a moral pro-labor stance without crippling their own operations. They still do not meaningfully answer to individual users: The OSI recently refused to disclose who won their board election and installed their preferred candidates.
And it will be inherently unethical to even consider the position of the FSF as long as it lacks the moral fortitude to permanently punt RMS from the board.
If the OSI wasn't owned by corporate interests, and had rightfully declared SSPL as a copyleft license... nobody would argue it isn't. The problem is we've let an extremely problematic organization "define" something in a way that does not serve our interests.
The OSI then strays into a lot of nonsense that demonstrates just how bought and paid for they are, such as "the understanding that their work was going towards the greater good", like apparently... being used by a company which does not open source it's platform and treats its employees so poorly they have to pee in bottles. And of course, they immediately claim that "now... contributions are embedded in a proprietary product" because of course, the OSI believes they own the term and definition of open source, and that everything they don't agree with is inherently "proprietary".
And then of course, they suggest "relicensing is not evidence of any failure of the open source licensing model" even though it is very clear that businesses being unable to survive producing open source is kinda big flaw in the goal of promoting the public software commons. (Taking it a step further, if the FSF argues free software is a moral imperative, not fixing this is outright immoral.)
And when I say "know", I don't mean "like": it could be that this will just make it easier for a particular team to decide that it doesn't want to deal with the AGPL, and they should go find something else, but at least it's clear what it is. As opposed to some BSSXYZWL license that you never heard of, which kind sounds like it's open source but kind of isn't...
I did get my stuff working with Pekko (the Apache fork of Akka), and it did work, but I was so pissed off at the entirety of this that I ended up rewriting the entire thing again using Vert.x, which I double checked the license for before doing more work.
I do understand why Akka feels like they have to use something like BUSL, it's hard to make money as a smaller software company, doubly so for open source software, and I also realize me complaining that "this free product made with free labor isn't free enough for me" is pretty entitled, but fundamentally I really don't think that the BUSL (and its similar licenses) are the right way forward. Whether or not it's fair, stuff like Akka does have competition from stuff that has more OSS-friendly stuff, and fundamentally I'm just going to use those, and if they're not up to snuff I'll augment them myself.
The only way this remains open source forever is to accept AGPL-only licensed patches.
[1]: https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/d65102861f51af48241f607a...
Now AGPL+CLA is not a license I'd contribute under, but also Redis is so far down my priorities that it wasn't a project I was going to be issuing PRs for anyway.
> Integrating Redis Stack technologies, including JSON, Time Series, probabilistic data types, Redis Query Engine and more into core Redis 8 under AGPL
Redis Query Engine is new-to-me (I stopped following Redis closely after the license change) - it looks like an in-memory alternative to a lot of the things you might do with Elasticsearch: https://redis.io/docs/latest/develop/interact/search-and-que...
With syntax that looks something like this:
FT.SEARCH places "museum @city:(san francisco|oakland) @shape:[CONTAINS $poly]" PARAMS 2 poly 'POLYGON((-122.5 37.7, -122.5 37.8, -122.4 37.8, -122.4 37.7, -122.5 37.7))' DIALECT 3
If you have a webapp that uses redis on the backend for a task queue, do the users of the webapp count as users of redis, and you then have to provide source to redis? Is there a chance that you might have to release your apps code to be compliant?
The fact that the FSF wants a EULA but can’t have a EULA without violating Freedom 0 doesn’t make the AGPL suddenly logically sound.
marcan has written about it in more detail than I care to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30044019
Stop using the AGPL. It violates the basic principles of free software.
The ability to run a SaaS company with free software is a feature, not a bug.
What do you think is nonfree about AGPL?
I think we should celebrate this anyway. It's a smart decision, it's what the community wanted to happen and it would be great if other companies with janky licenses could see "Redis relicensed to open source and had a great boost out of it", not 'Redis relicensed to open source and it didn't help them at all".
I'm delighted. Thank you, team Redis.
So sure, let's celebrate, but celebrate the community, not those who tried to pull the rug out from under them.
[^1]: https://github.com/minio/minio/issues/13308#issuecomment-929...
I dont think it applies to clients using the API at all. It just specifies that the modified source should be offered to clients connecting over the API, but not that the client itself has to be open source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Affero_General_Public_Lice...
[1] I am assuming this because valkey comes under the Linux Foundation umbrella.
"Inebriated aliens might as well have beamed it down from space as a kind of practical joke..."
"It’s not just hard for lawyers, who have the legal picture and can parse the whole license very carefully without passing out...It’s also hard for hackers, even those familiar with free software lore, who lack the legal side of the picture and a sense of what other ways things might have been said. Imagine how people who don’t know software, law, legal drafting, software architecture, hacker culture, or the self-styled 'philosophical' musings of one Richard M. Stallman feel."
https://writing.kemitchell.com/2021/01/24/Reading-AGPL
As Mitchell implies folks who want network copyleft should look into the more straightforward OSL3, IMO.
But it's something, and it's not my call to make because I didn't write the code, so properly I can only be grateful.
I spent the entire weekend poring over the C code and found it some of the most beautiful C I'd ever read (ever since the heady years of SunOS), and now I feel I should at least go and update miniredis to asyncio/Python 3--for kicks...
"I write code in order to express myself, and I consider what I code an artifact, rather than just something useful to get things done. I would say that what I write is useful just as a side effect, but my first goal is to make something that is, in some way, beautiful. In essence, I would rather be remembered as a bad artist than a good programmer."
I'm glad Antirez was seeing his art losing it's beauty and now, is reclaiming it!
placatedmayhem•3h ago
Edit: Regardless, thank you and the rest of the folks inside Redis for pushing to bring this back to OSS!
ksec•3h ago
Although I haven't checked if ValKey any substantial development since the fork.
reconditerose•2h ago
[1] https://valkey.io/blog/unlock-one-million-rps-part2/ [2] https://valkey.io/blog/new-hash-table/
olavgg•1h ago
graton•11m ago
https://github.com/valkey-io/valkey
https://github.com/redis/redis
VWWHFSfQ•3h ago
md3911027514•3h ago
antirez•3h ago
It's not just licensing and hyper-scalers, it's also a matter of development quality and direction. For instance, now in Redis you can find substantial more stuff not available in ValKey, including hash items expires, Vector Sets that are very useful for a number of things, the probabilistic data structures just introduced with Redis 8, and so forth.
lotharcable•2h ago
Maybe Valkey has served its purpose in pressuring Redis into playing ball.
Just answering "why would". Whether or not Redis is better then Valkey or if it would be worth it to switch back is not something I know.
kiitos•2h ago
reconditerose•2h ago
ziddoap•2h ago
You've said this twice now, but not provided any data or even a hand-wave to a possible source so that others could go get the data and look at it.
If it's statistically something, where are the stats?
kiitos•2h ago
My claim that statistically zero (cloud provider) customers are using valkey should, I sincerely hope, be self-evident.
ziddoap•1h ago
I have no idea what the actual stats are. But no, I don't find your "statistically 0%" to be self-evident, especially in light of the other comments and links in this thread, and what I've heard elsewhere.
I was hoping, since you presented it so confidently, that you had something more than "trust me". In another comment you say you have evidence of marketshare, maybe you could post that?
joshstrange•46m ago
kiitos•2m ago
AustinWentz•1h ago
>My claim that statistically zero (cloud provider) customers are using valkey should, I sincerely hope, be self-evident.
This is simply not true. For example, Aiven (a cloud provider) completely ended support for Redis at the end of March and migrated existing users to Valkey. https://aiven.io/docs/platform/reference/end-of-life#aiven-f...
kevinsf90•1h ago
We've already completed migrating several large production clusters and I can confidently say that the migration had been pretty smooth and seamless.
Valkey is certainly production ready (at least on AWS it is). The team is looking forward to expedite and complete the migration
kiitos•2h ago
echoangle•2h ago
Osiris•2h ago
andenacitelli•2h ago
pjm331•2h ago
aweiher•2h ago
echoangle•2h ago
reconditerose•2h ago
shaky-carrousel•2h ago
teaearlgraycold•2h ago
cyrnel•2h ago
kiitos•2h ago
rustc•2h ago
What evidence did you find?
kiitos•1h ago
Tostino•1h ago
foobarchu•1h ago
rmsaksida•2h ago
shaky-carrousel•2h ago
_msw_•2h ago
This is Open Source working well.
Unfortunately, the reverse flow does not work.
[1] https://github.com/redis/redis/pull/13638
graton•4m ago
Did they maintain the author's copyright notice as required by BSD-3?
jzb•1h ago
oweiler•54m ago
seneca•2h ago
Between that and the licensing, I would never consider dealing with them.
cortesoft•1h ago
ketzo•1h ago
Not to say it’s not an important discussion!
Alupis•36m ago
Several major linux distros transparently switched to Valkey and the users are none-the-wiser. On Fedora, for example, doing `sudo dnf install redis` just installs Valkey.
sigzero•27m ago
Alupis•3m ago
ramon156•1h ago
dharmab•1h ago