Is this 4o-mini, 4o, o4-mini, o4-mini-high, o3 (etc)?
No matter how strange their naming, they all vary dramatically in problems like that presented in the article.
Which one the experience was with is critical to drawing any kind of conclusions.
all those hints we receive from LLM use make us return to the point, "but can it do procedural reasoning - is it reliable"?
That something proceeds in a direction of "being more and more convincing" is a bad direction, detrimental, not progressive, when what counts is "actually having the juice".
> Is this ...? ... they all vary dramatically in problems
If the above were achieved, it would be an architectural revolution, and we would have been informed. If it is "more of the same, but more advanced", then the submitted shows a structural problem.
o3, for example, nailed it on the first try: https://chatgpt.com/share/68231cfc-d258-8013-aad2-5115eba880...
paul7986•9mo ago
Now it can't do that but does some cool things based off of what you try with it like recently in an Icelandic restaurant I took a pic of the menu, uploaded to GPT and asked it to create a mirror image yet show me the menu in English and US dollars (not Icelandic Krona). That was very handy as I then shared it with my travel friends in the restaurant and those in the hotel.
Overall love hearing how people are using it uniquely too! Used it to count my calories for a year as I eat out daily at healthy chains (Cava and others) and GPT can easily grab calories from their sites and calculate.
eesmith•9mo ago
And point out that you likely meant Roswell. (There is a Rosewell in Virginia. https://www.geonames.org/4782965/rosewell.html )
It should also ask about what interests you have, to optimize what "best route" means since it can mean something different than shortest time/distance. Like, if you are interested in space history then there's a few things to check out in Alamagordo. Or, do you like model trains?
On the other hand - are you serious? A 1950s paper map would almost give you what you want. Specifically, this one https://archive.org/details/x998732558805867 . You just need to add a few numbers in your head.
El Paso to Carlsbad = 101 + 46 + 20 = 167 miles.
Roswell to White Sands = 58 + 47 + 9 + 3 + 13 = 130 miles.
While the road names have changed, and the surfacing improved in 75 years, the routes have not.
paul7986•8mo ago
When asking GPT to create such map with routes (an image of such) with each destination I ensured to affix New Mexico to each NM location I want to go. Albeit, we aren't going as a lightbulb went off in our head last night saying wait White Sand dunes in June and go hot soaking in Truth or Consequences in June is a dumb (Sept or Oct seems better).
eesmith•8mo ago
My observation is that the same information is on a 1950s paper map. If you took a picture of it and listed the places on your trip, then your travel friends could figure things out.
Why do you need more?
The three limitations are 1) the distances are listed piecemeal, rather than the total distance per segment; 2) the major stops on your itinerary are not listed on the map; and 3) the specific route isn't highlighted on the map.
If this were a paper map you could mark up the map directly, or put a clear plastic or glass sheet on top of the map and write the annotations on that, or use those paper tab stickers people use to mark places in books. Or I could draw a paper sketch of the distances and locations, to the same scale as the map, and place them side-by-side with the image of the original map.
These would handle all cases #1 and #2, and sometimes #3 (I used to use a highlighter to record which distinct routes I traveled on) - except that most people aren't so analog, and getting good paper maps is pretty hard these days.
In a digital world, I would take the screenshot, bring it into a graphics package (I use OmniGraffle) and highlight things. That would get #1 and #2, but yes, tracing the route with a mouse is tedious. Then again, for the places you listed there really is only one obvious route.
Better would be to use a tablet and stylus which are designed for sketching. A few circles, some lines, and some numbers - done!
But you want something different.
Why do your travel friends need distances? Why isn't a photo of a sketch good enough? Or is it that you want to do everything on your phone, and can't sketch well using it?
I first did that section of New Mexico back in 1993 with a 50-state paper road atlas, so I'm also finding it hard to understand what else you need for your planning.
Going back to the affordances lost by the transition from paper maps to digital - it's really easy to affix little arrow stickers to a paper map, to record the places you want to visit. And modern digital maps don't show segment distances like the old ones did, because they assume you'll have the mapping tool figure out the whole distance for you.
In October (the third Saturday in October to be precise) you can visit the Trinity Test site. I did that once, but to be honest I didn't find it all that interesting.
You could do a trip up north - there's the Bandera Volcano Ice Cave, and the Wild Spirit Wolf Sanctuary in the west, then up to Chaco Canyon, over to Jemez Springs, or go further north through Abiquiú to soak at Ojo Caliente, then over to Taos, and down, or further east through Cimarron Canyon State Park, which I thought was very pretty.
paul7986•8mo ago
Paper maps I would actually have to do some work or effort. GPT (once it does maps) can do this automagically in a few seconds and boom it’s done/easily shareable.
eesmith•8mo ago
I just don't understand why it's useful or why your friends would care.
Like, do you want the specific route highlighted, and if so, why?
Or do you want longer labeled line segments or curves, like an Indiana Jones movie? Because you can do that in a couple of minutes with a good drawing program.
Do you care if the distances cover items on the map?
Do you care about the level of detail on the map? Like, if you visit Cloudcroft do you want the map to have that name on it? Since you won't get that from doing a screenshot from most digital maps which include both ABQ and El Paso, in my testing.
paul7986•8mo ago
Also, you mentioned using a drawing program ... i use GPT for everything and can just type to ask it to create this or these types of images (when it finally does maps) why would I use anything else to create these images automagically without any work or effort on my part minus typing the request for it into a text box? I am lazy along with billions of other people are the same and why they use and will continue to latch onto GPT.
eesmith•8mo ago
How then do you expect any AI system to do what you want?
paul7986•8mo ago
https://postimg.cc/xNXRtr59
That image can be improved with graphical enhancements of each stop as it's meant for discussion between friends and plan out our travel days. AI can do that much easier then me adding such flair.
Please note I do UX for a living and my focus is keep it simple stupid ethos of design. Unless I’m missing something (apologize in advance if so) using GPT either by typing into it's text box or even easier chatting to it to create these route images is the quickest and easiest way too accomplish what I seek; least effort; automagical.
eesmith•8mo ago
I thought that
https://brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=7/33.519/-106.496/standa...
was pretty good, though it doesn't let you label, and it gives elapsed distances (in km at multiple of 100 miles(?)) rather than segments.
Mapquest at
https://www.mapquest.com/routeplanner/from/us/tx/el-paso-282...
doesn't show distances on the map - those are in the turn-by-turn instructions for each segments, and it doesn't let you change the markers.
On the other hand, its "Let use reorder stops" option points out that El Paso to White Sands to Carlsbad Caverns to Roswell to ABQ is faster, at 9 hr 23 min / 589.6 miles instead of 10 hr 46 min / 675.9 miles.
Which ties back to questions of, what's the goal? If it's route planning between friends, a link to an editable map page - especially one which can re-route for you - seems to me more useful than a static image of the map.
The low-detail map you linked to doesn't show POIs, which means you can't decide if perhaps you want to visit Guadalupe Mountains National Park, or drive through a (small) salt flat.
This was why I asked what you meant by "best route" - strictly minimal distance/time? or are you okay with taking 20 minutes longer to detour and visit a shallow cave which was a prehistoric home? (It's on the drive from White's City up to the caverns.)
From a UX view, is your goal to optimize a one-shot "make an image with this route highlighted, with marker images for the waypoints, and with distances for each segment"?
Or is it collaborative effort based on multiple changes? If it's the latter, then the UX can be very different. For one, typing all those place names to update the map each time will become a nuisance.
Plus, I cautioned that your automagical interface needs to know enough to fix the ambiguities in your original routing, and of course your personal preferences of "best route".
My definition of "best" includes going on roads I haven't been on before, so I would drive an extra 1h20m to avoid the backtracking Mapquest suggests.
[1] There's a story about some German POWs during WWII held in a camp in the Southwest. They found a map which showed a river nearby that went to Mexico. They managed to make a raft and break out, but when they got to the "river" it was dry. They weren't expecting seasonal rivers.
It's likely that in really wet year that salt flat does turn the road into a ford.
paul7986•8mo ago
Will definitely look into those places.
So one of my travel buddies likes to take her / our time where I’m like go-go-go. The map I linked to shows her that it’s not a lot of driving and we can drive to an attraction (Carlsbad) and then drive & stay in Roswell. Less then five hours of driving each day. So I showed her my map and she saw the distances we have to drive each for attraction and then drive to town sleep in/check out.
She was fine with that plan and our discussion was done about planning our NM trip pretty quickly, thanks to the quick visual map image I linked to. Thought she Then said wait we’re gonna soak in hot springs in the desert in June …that’s dumb where I agreed ..let’s go early fall. Now we will look into a salt flat, thank you. Anything else we should check out?
paul7986•8mo ago
ChatGPT doesn’t to really can’t do maps/routes ..what a lame ass lol. I mean Microsoft has Bing and GPT isn’t plugged into its API ..present day.