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AI Won't Kill Junior Devs – But Your Hiring Strategy Might

https://addyo.substack.com/p/ai-wont-kill-junior-devs-but-your
24•kiyanwang•3h ago

Comments

bigfatkitten•1h ago
The legal industry has already figured out that LLMs can draft routine documents (and make massive mistakes) as well as a graduate lawyer, but that’s not the point.

That industry has properly recognised that this is where people learn the skills to do more complex, higher value work.

bogzz•47m ago
Maybe because law firms aren't managed by MBAs.
RhysabOweyn•44m ago
For now... some states are beginning to change their laws to allow non-lawyers to own law firms.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/kpmg-wants-to-be-the-first-acco...

echelon•29m ago
Why shouldn't a law firm be owned by non-lawyers? That limitation seems ridiculous.

Hospitals are owned by non-doctors. Engineering firms are owned by non-engineers. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the ones that fail are owned by the practitioners and the ones that succeed are led by former outsiders.

Toymaking companies are owned by adults, gynecology practices can be owned by men, wheelchair companies can be owned by those who can walk, record labels can be owned by non-vocalists, etc. Most sports teams...

Why should lawyers get special treatment?

If someone is a good operator, that's orthogonal.

Most ICs are not good at leadership, logistics, product, long term vision, etc. or at least not everything that a well-rounded CEO or owner might be. While hiring leadership from within the ranks works, it's not a necessary condition for success.

bigfatkitten•23m ago
It’s because there are financial accountability requirements unique to law firms (dealing with trust money etc) that are tied directly to the legal professional obligations of the person in charge of the firm.
CPLX•22m ago
Because lawyers occupy a quasi-public role in our legal system. They aren’t entirely separate from the system itself. The legal system depends on the enforcement of ethics and responsibility in a way that might be incompatible with a purely profit motive.

This point is arguable of course. On one hand legal services are expensive and often inaccessible for many. On the other hand more aggressive competition and consolidation has absolutely ruined society in a couple situations, medicine being the obvious example.

So there’s more than one point of view on this.

abdullahkhalids•1m ago
Bits About Money says similar things about banks: "A recurring theme of this column is that banks are privately funded public infrastructure." [1]. So laws around them are quite strict and different from regular companies.

[1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/why-is-that-bank-bran...

hengheng•44m ago
Or because bad légal documents become obvious immediately, while bad code has a 2-3 year incubation period.
i_am_jl•41m ago
I am not understanding the joke.
arcanemachiner•25m ago
They're saying that the language in such a document could be read and discovered almost immediately, whereas the logic bomb sitting inside a bunch of poorly written code may take years before it finally explodes.
i_am_jl•16m ago
...while ignoring that flaws in legal documents are not always immediately obvious, and bugs in code are not always difficult to discover.
bigfatkitten•40m ago
Not always. Contracts for example sometimes contain landmines that lay undiscovered for a decade or more.

A key difference is that law is an actual profession. It has qualification, continuing professional development and licensing requirements, and personal consequences for getting it wrong. None of these things are true for software development.

margalabargala•35m ago
I would argue they are pretty similar. It's not hard for a bad clause in a contract to get overlooked at first and then become a problem years later. Example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/think-commas-don-t-matt...

CPLX•19m ago
I’m pretty fluent in both worlds and they are actually highly equivalent on this one specific point.

In both cases it looks perfect and it works right up until it doesn’t, usually for the same reason, entering an unanticipated state.

bigfatkitten•28m ago
They are run by partners laser focused on making money, just over a longer time horizon than private equity would be. Equity partners have most of their own wealth tied to the firm.

Grads are cheap. Partners can dangle the future senior associate/partner carrot over the head of a hopeful junior for many years while that junior brings in money that goes into the partners’ pockets. The junior brings in more money as they grow professionally.

comrade1234•42m ago
Hiring a junior dev is a luxury for big companies that can afford to tie up senior devs tandem coding with a junior for months, then giving easy projects to the junior dev with extensive code review and hand-holding for another year.

I don’t think anyone has the budget for that anymore - not even the big companies. It’s two years of negative $ output for the $ you put in and after those two years the junior dev leaves anyway for a more senior position.

robofanatic•30m ago
This isn’t a new phenomenon and not limited to software development. Companies know that people get trained and leave all the time. Most companies have plans for that.
t-writescode•24m ago
There’s a lot to be said about this comment, but I’ll stick to two things.

1) it’s a waste of resources for seniors to be doing the work that the juniors and 2s can do. Hunting down infrequent or low priority bugs, fixing small layout issues, etc. they’re perfect for someone paid less and growing and learning the codebase.

There is *always* plenty of junior-ready work and the day a week of work to schedule, prep and help those juniors to do it pays dividends.

2) a Junior leaving because you won’t pay them, have a toxic culture or won’t give them a promotion when it’s time speaks more about a broken company culture and one of a style that’s rampant in the tech industry and business at large than it does about loyalty and willingness for the employee to stay at the company.

Good leadership and skilled organizers can easily solve the problems you’ve listed; and, even better, create a culture of longevity for all the employees at a company, not just the juniors.

Speaking as someone that has worked for companies that give a shit about their workers and who helped raise me up from a low SDE.

lolinder•15m ago
> it’s a waste of resources for seniors to be doing the work that the juniors and 2s can do. Hunting down infrequent or low priority bugs, fixing small layout issues, etc.

These are tasks that in the current environment often get pushed back for "later" indefinitely. These tasks aren't un-resourced because the company isn't hiring juniors, the company isn't hiring juniors because they no longer have the funds for small fixes.

jiggawatts•7m ago
As a customer of these types of businesses: yes, we can tell. We do care, and we are ready to drop the shitty products of these bad companies at the first opportunity.
matt_s•40m ago
This aligns with my thinking that juniors can leverage AI to become seniors much faster than people without AI but there are important concepts about learning debugging, learning how the underlying technologies work, etc. that is crucial to becoming a senior dev. Just using AI to pump out code without knowing the details of how it works will not end up going well for the long haul.
latentsea•1m ago
Seniors can also leverage AI to become juniors too.
ghiculescu•11m ago
The real issue is wage expectations. In 2 ways

1) For the last decade many juniors have had unreasonable salary expectations that have often still been met. Now there is an alternative that's a lot cheaper and doesn't come with an attitude.

2) It's generally agreed that for the first year or 2 in your career you aren't that useful; after that you start to add lots of value quickly. But salary expectations don't double when you go from a junior to an intermediate - maybe they go up 25%. It's clearly much better value to hire only seniors if you can find them.

I'm not saying these are right or wrong but a whole article about juniors that doesn't mention wages, and just tries to implore companies to "do the right thing", misses the point.

codr7•5m ago
Not only does your fancy AI junior randomly spew bullshit back at you; that happens with humans as well; but it keeps doing it, never learning anything.

Managing one or several of these idiots has to be the worst job ever invented.

jbmsf•4m ago
We have one junior dev in a team about a dozen. They have had other roles with us, both at the current job and previous ones. We know they are smart, reliable, and motivated. It's a no brainer to spend time on training because, combined with the skills from other roles, they are likely to have a lot of leverage.

But it's hard to imagine committing to the training without the history.

kristianc•1m ago
> Indeed, companies that try to staff only with experienced devs face a pipeline problem. Without juniors today, there are no seniors tomorrow.

This one seems like a classic Prisoner's Dilemma. Defecting (hiring only seniors) is rational in isolation, but if everyone defects, everyone loses. What incentive for a smaller company to hire and invest in training the junior if in two years they'll leave for a larger company anyway.

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