Could you expand on this? I don't see maths as a language for quantities specifically (i.e. what does symmetry have to do with quantities).
> just too tedious (but not impossible) for a human being to work through the proof.
Already happened with the four colour theorem arguably.
That’s easily proven to be true. “Two plus two equals four” is a theorem, so is “three plus three equals six”, etc.
This is a somewhat bleak picture of math. We also have the other phenomena of increasing simplicity. Both statements and proofs becoming more straightforward and simple after one has access to deeper mathematical constructions.
For example : Bezout's theorem would like to state that two curves of degree m, degree n would intersect in mn points. Except that you have two parallel lines intersecting at 0 instead of 1.1 =1 point, two disjoint circles intersect at 0 instead of 2.2=4 points, a line tangent to a circle intersecting at 1 point instead of 1.2=2 points. These exceptions merge into a simple picture once one goes to projective space, complex numbers and schemes. Complex numbers lead to lots of other instances of simplicity.
Similarly, proofs can become simple where before one had complicated ad-hoc reasoning.
Feynman once made the same point of laws of physics where in contrast to someone figuring out rules of chess by looking at games where they first figure out basic rules(how pieces move) and then moves to complex exceptions(en passant, pawn promotion), what often happens in physics is that different sets of rules for apparently distinct phenomena become aspects of a unity (ex: heat, light, sound were seen as distinct things but now are all seen as movements of particles; unification of electricity and magnetism).
Of course, this unification pursuit is never complete. Mathematics books/papers constantly seem to pull a rabbit out of a hat. This leads to 'motivation' questions for why such a construction/expression/definition was made. For a few of those questions, the answer only becomes clear after more research.
Also, I appreciate anonymity, but, to my point
> I live by myself in a remote mountain cave beyond the ken of civilised persons, and can only be contacted during a full moon, using certain arcane rites that are too horrible to speak of.
Okay.
= I live in California, and the nearest Starbucks is more than 20 miles away.
>>can only be contacted during a full moon
= As a night person, I am awake when the streetlight outside my house turns on.
>>certain arcane rites that are too horrible to speak of
= In order to contact me, you must install Microsoft Teams.
Overall, it's not that bad, except for the MS team thing. ;)
I don't literally live in a cave, but fortunately not everyone is so allergic to whimsical language :D.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Grothendieck#Retirem...
"Local villagers helped sustain him with a more varied diet after he tried to live on a staple of dandelion soup." - like most people would.
About the substance, I agree that there are fair grounds for concern, and it's not just about mathematics.
The best case scenario is rejection and prohibition of uses of AI that fundamentally threaten human autonomy. It is theoretically possible to do so, but since capital and power are pro-AI[^1], getting there requires a social revolution that upends the current world order. Even if one were to happen, the results wouldn't last for too long. Unless said revolution were so utterly radical that would set us in a return trajectory to the middle ages (I have something of the sort published somewhere, check my profile!).
I'm an optimist when it comes to the enabling power of AI for a select few. But I'm a pessimist otherwise: if the richest nation on Earth can't educate its citizens, what hope is there that humans will be able to supervise and control AI for long? Given our current trajectory, if nothing changes, we are set for civilization catastrophe.
[^1]: Replacing expensive human labor is the most powerful modern economic incentive I know of. Money wants, money gets.
And I am envy of such skill because I like to think about myself as not entirely being stupid, still I would never be able to write/speak this way because I just do not have an aptitude towards that.
So I don't see any reason to worry about the impact of AI. Unlike most fields with AI worries, mathematical research isn't even a significant employment area, and people with jobs doing it could almost certainly be doing something else for more money.
But it did. Painter used to be a trade where you could sell your painting skills as, well, a skill applicable for other than purely aesthetic reasons, simply because there were no other ways to document the world around you. It just isn't anymore because of cameras. Professional oil portrait painter isn't a career in 2025.
A_D_E_P_T•3h ago
Also:
> To expand: what if the practice of mathematics becomes completely determined by the diktats of a vast capitalist machinery of proprietary machine learning models churning out proof after proof, and theory after theory, conjured from the aether of all possible true statements?
I don't think that this is possible even in theory, as computational resources are limited and "the aether of all possible true statements" is incomprehensively vast. (There's a massive orders-of-magnitude difference in size between true-seeming-yet-false statements and the number of elementary particles in the visible universe. More statements than particles.) You can't brute force it.
bryanrasmussen•3h ago
auggierose•2h ago
awanderingmind•1h ago
andyjohnson0•2h ago
I agree, but... Spend time formalising a large part of existing mathematics and proofs, train a bunch of sufficiently powerful and generative models with that, and with cooperative problem solving and proof strategies, and give them access to proof assistants and adequate compute resources, and something interesting could happen.
I suspect the barrier is finding a business model that would pay for this. Turning mathematics into an industrial, extruded-on-demand product might work, but I dont know who (except maybe the NSA) would stump-up the money.
n4r9•1h ago
esperent•1h ago
This could lead to the proof being rejected entirely, or fixed and strengthened.
Confirmation: if the AI understands it well enough that we're even considering asking it to confirm the proof, then you can do all kinds of things. You can ask it to simplify the entire proof to make it easier for humans to verify. You can ask it questions about parts of the proof you don't understand. You can ask it if there's any interesting corollaries or applications in other fields. Maybe you can even ask it to rewrite the whole thing in LEAN (although, like the author, I know nothing about LEAN and have no idea if this would be useful).
zarzavat•1h ago
Rejecting a proof would be more complicated, because while for confirming a proof you only need to check that the main statement in the formalisation matches that of the conjecture, showing that a proof has been rejected requires knowledge of the proof itself (in general).
lblume•1h ago
Why? If a proof is wrong it has to be locally invalid, i.e. draw some inference which is invalid according to rules of logic. Of course the antecedent could have been defined pages earlier, but in and of itself the error must be local, right?
awanderingmind•1h ago