And even though gas power plants are the designated backup power plants for times when there is neither enough sun nor wind, this doesn't actually happen often enough that you need even more gas. So gas consumtion in Germany is actually projected to decline by at least 50% until 2040 [0].
[0] https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/energie-nachfrage-nach-gas...
Doesen't that mean that they need to build the capacity to cover their full use regardless(expensive), just that less fuel(cheap) is burned?
I don't know what the number is, but it's probably greater than 0 and definitely less than the total peak EU demand, and if I had to guess I would say it's probably closer to 20%.
Korea is close by, and they make them pretty cheap and fast also.
"NARI launches NT$100m nuclear technology project"
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2025/05/12/...
What's the opportunity for solar? Abundant sunshine most of the year, declining interest in family farming.
Taiwan has offshore wind power, but the cost is twice as much as renewables:
Taiwan’s offshore wind projects are paid for by Corporate Power Purchase Agreements (CPPAs) from large tech companies. They might be willing to pay above and beyond the usual price for the renewable energy they need for their supply chain commitments, but they are balking at paying what the offshore wind industry says they will need to sustain the Taiwan projects, above NTD$5 per kilowatt hour. That is almost twice as much as the rates they usually pay through Taipower for non-renewable energy.
As we've seen with Russia targeting them in Ukraine, nuclear plants are the last thing you want around during a war.
I don't recall any nuclear incidents as a result of the war in ukraine? Attacking the power infrastructure in general is bad, but hardly relevant to the type of generation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_of_the_Russian_invasion...
However there has been strategic use of them against Ukraine. Russia attacked and captured Zaporizhzhia and then used it as a base of operations on the front line that Ukraine couldn't attack back, because Ukraine is much less willing to risk a nuclear incident on their own territory than Russia is. Nuclear reactors strategically favour the invading army, because they care less about being careful.
It's also really not valid to say "the really bad thing didn't happen this time, so it's fine". Avoiding any meltdowns ever means even "that looked vaguely close to something bad happening" is something that must be avoided, and there have been several times in this war where it's looked more than vaguely close.
Compare that to the outright destruction of Ukrainian thermal and hydroelectric power plants: https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2024-04-17/rus...
Important note, the Geneva Convention states that one cannot attack a nuclear power plant, though it may be a military objective. You can take control of a plant, but you cannot use force in a way that risks releasing radiation.
It is also a pretty stupid idea for an invading force to do so. Invaders don't want scorched earth tactics. It undermines their own objectives of taking over some territory. Who cares if you're king of a nuclear wasteland. Rather these tactics are much more likely in non-invasion situations. Like if Russia and US duked it out in the Cold War, or India and Pakistan where it's become about much more than land.
This isn't the type of tactic you'd expect with PRC invading Taiwan. They want that land. They want the territory. They want the waters in the region and don't want to contaminate their own fishing supply. Nor do they want to incur the image of violating the Geneva Conventions. They maintain the claim that Taiwan is and always has been their territory, that the island is controlled by rebels. Such violations would invite global forces to come to Taiwan's aid and it would be much harder to paint the U.S. (or others) as aggressors interfering in internal matters. Remember, war is still highly political. Russia still depends on allies and should the PRC invade Taiwan, they too cannot operate in isolation.
[0] https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profil...
You are completely ignoring
a) That Russia did attack multiple nuclear sites with troops, missiles, and drones without significant international pushback
b) That Russia has used Zaporizhzhia as an unattackable forward operating base housing over a thousand troops, munition dumps, and so on. Demonstrating that nuclear power plants are a strategic liability to the defending side even should no nuclear incident occur.
c) That it isn't sufficient to say "nothing bad happened this time", but you must also say "it is very unlikely something bad could have happened", and that you can undeniably not say that here.
Here are a few statements by the IAEA (international regulator)
> This [thing that did not happen] is the only way to ensure that we do not face a nuclear accident. https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/statements/director-generals...
> This situation is untenable, and we are playing with fire. We cannot continue this situation where we are one step away from a nuclear accident. The safety of Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant is hanging by a thread. https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/situation-at-zaporizhzh...
> your condescension is unnecessary.
There is no condescension.Believing you might not understand the situation is a legitimate and reasonable belief.
Providing historical records and operational context is not patronizing.
These are important details with high relevance to the topic at hand, especially considering the noisy information environment around these sensitive topics where there are large amounts of accidental and intentional misinformation or propaganda. It warrants letting the record be set straight. What I have stated are facts or well discussed beliefs of military strategy and the underlying ideas of what has led to such treaties and global policies. The conjectures made are not of my own but of general consensus by military scholars. And to clarify, the conjecture is with respect to what might happen, not with what did. Conjecture only exists where is necessary: predicting future events.
> You are completely ignoring
> a) That Russia did attack multiple nuclear sites
> b) That Russia has used Zaporizhzhia
I am not. These events are well documented in the link I provided. Which also includes a link to the IAEA's current statements and status.Clarification: you should differentiate site from reactor and infrastructure necessary to maintain radioactive containment.
I made such a clarification in stating what is permissible under the Geneva Conventions and what is not.
Note that linked page's summary highlights that the IAEA has had permanent presence at the facilities since January 2023.
I would also like to request you read the linked material in full and pay careful attention to the targets and tactics used. I made a point about the Geneva Conventions not just for sake of the PRC but because it strongly clarifies the difference between what is allowed and what isn't. It is clear Russia is toeing this line and I'll agree may have even crossed it. But we must be clear that there is a large distinction between targeting the reactors or structure critical to ensuring reactor containment is maintained from taking operational control. These are wildly different situations, notably the former leading to the nuclear disaster you suggested and continue to.
Again, I want to stress conjecture occurs only in relation to future events and does not deviate from the general consensus of (global) military scholars. Only summarized for brevity.
> c) That it isn't sufficient to say "nothing bad happened this time", *BUT YOU MUST ALSO SAY "IT IS VERY UNLIKELY SOMETHING BAD COULD HAVE HAPPENED",
> AND THAT YOU CAN ***UNDENIABLY*** SAY THAT HERE.
[emphasis my own to draw focus to an obtuse accusation]
*THE MAJORITY OF MY POST IS DEDICATED TO THIS*Here is a summary that may be more easily parsed:
- unlikely when:
- invading or seeking occupation
(b/c you destroy the "goods" you seek)
- do not wish to incur outside involvement
(i.e. retaliation or direct armed conflict with additional countries/organizations (i.e. NATO))
- must maintain strategic alliances in global politics
(i.e. PRC undermines its most important objective of replacing US as global leader by obtusely violating many international laws and creating a physical reminder of these autocracies that will last for centuries)
- likely when:
- willingness to use nuclear weapons
- No intention of invasion AND believe can withstand global political ramifications
- MAD
(mutually assured destruction)
- intent to commit genocide regardless of global ramifications and harm to self
(i.e. India and Pakistan)
We must also make clear distinctions to note that threats have and will be made regardless of intent to actually act upon. I also will say that such threats must always be treated as serious. We have seen this with Putin. > Here are a few statements by the IAEA
The IAEA statements are congruent with what I've stated. Previously and currently. They acted in a reasonable manner. I am in agreement that action must be taken if there are any risks or threats made. But seeking involvement of third party international organizations to prevent risks of escalation is substantially different than such tragedies having occurred. There is no question that tragedy did not occur and I do not make claim that we should not be closely monitoring the situation nor that we should be dismissive of such risks.i.e.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/taiwan-plans-response-t... ("Taiwan plans response to Trump tariffs with energy imports, tariff cuts")
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-says-trump... ("Taiwan could buy $200 billion more from US, increase LNG imports as part of trade deal")
> "Asked about raising the proportion of Taiwan's imports of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from the United States from 10% to 30% of the total, Kuo said that was the "direction" being eyed."
> "Most of Taiwan's LNG now comes from Australia and Qatar."
Its still wild to me people are perfectly happy to offload their food and energy production in today's world.
People think China will invade Taiwan. I think they’ll just put it under siege until it surrenders.
YaleE360•8mo ago
CamperBob2•8mo ago
In the event of conflict with China, they can buy LNG from any number of sources, unlike uranium.
Jyaif•8mo ago
chr1•8mo ago
themaninthedark•8mo ago
CamperBob2•8mo ago
hangonhn•8mo ago
CamperBob2•8mo ago
It is easy to call Putin a reckless dumbass and say that Xi is much more rational, but the two leaders have gone out of their way to put on a conspicuous show of friendship and shared interests.
godelski•8mo ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44032181
dh2022•8mo ago
matkoniecz•8mo ago
Uranium is also much easier to stockpile.
WillPostForFood•8mo ago
thinkingtoilet•8mo ago
lupusreal•8mo ago
These days it's arguably different, insofar as solar is viable, but evidently it's not viable enough for Taiwan to not expand their use of natural gas. Still, it's better than in the 20th century when a nuclear power plant obstructed by activists almost always meant coal was burned instead.
Y-bar•8mo ago
godelski•8mo ago
The former famously has taken significant funds from natural gas companies with the explicit shared anti nuclear interests.
Green Peace may not (always) tell you gas is better, but they do not operate in a way where they don't effectively believe that. They focus on shutting down first and dealing with ramifications later. Historically, those ramifications are installing more NG or coal, not solar. Clearly the NG companies understand this, with their findings of SN (and many believe funding of GP too but I'm not aware of any confirmations)
Y-bar•8mo ago
Example sources: https://www.energyindepth.org/sierra-clubs-latest-attack-on-...
https://science.time.com/2012/02/02/exclusive-how-the-sierra...
Can you give a specific example where Green Peace activities have resulted in NG being used instead of nuclear power? In all historical records I can find they seem pretty consistent on actively protesting gas power plants. The most "gas-positive" quote I can find is here https://www.greenpeace.de/sites/default/files/publications/e... where they say
> "A shift from coal and oil to natural gas in the remaining conventional applications will lead to a further reduction of CO 2 emissions"
Which seems pretty consistent with their actions, no?
godelski•8mo ago
Because I cannot provide specific examples where Green Peace's efforts unequivocally have led to the shutdown of nuclear reactors.
But it is not difficult to demonstrate that they have been highly involved in creating negative public sentiment of nuclear reactors and are one of the leading public organizations making efforts to do so. I believe our conversation and the fact that Green Peace is a household name is evidence enough. But if it isn't you can search their own website and their wiki page says as much.
AND the claim that shutting down nuclear leads to increases NG and coal production is trivially verifiable. The two most prominent cases being Germany[0,1] and Japan[2].
By the graph's at the top of the wiki articles you can see that nuclear was not exclusively replaced by renewables. I should have stated the claim with this wording for clarity, I apologize.
It is also important to note that they dedicate efforts to closing plants where nuclear provides at least half the zero carbon energy generated by a region. If you wish to confirm I suggest pulling up electric emission maps[3], look in the American East (south and north) and google the name of those nuclear facilities along with green peace. The TVA is a great place to start followed by PJM and SCS.
The contention is about prioritization.I do not claim that GP (nor SNC) states they seek to increase global emissions. Only that they disproportionately dedicate resources to close down nuclear plants compared to those of coal and oil.
The claim is that:
I'm fine with shutting down nuclear plants in favor of renewables, but only after we have eliminated the significantly higher priority carbon emitting facilities and can ensure our energy demands can be met through current renewable technologies. Neither of these conditions are currently being met.[0] https://www.bakerinstitute.org/research/natural-gas-balance-...
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_German...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Japan
[3] https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/72h/hourly
thijson•8mo ago
dehrmann•8mo ago
themaninthedark•8mo ago
If blockade from China will cut power after the 11 day storage runs out then your are out of power completely.
If blockade from China cuts 90% power after 11 days, then you still have power of emergency operation.
This is assuming that China would not be attacking the power plants in either scenario, which is reasonable given the premise that China wants to take over not destroy Taiwan.
philwelch•8mo ago
godelski•8mo ago
I can think of plenty of conquests that did not result in the destruction of the invaded country. Instances all throughout WWI, WW2, Napoleon, Alexander the Great, and many more. You don't destroy the country because you want the country. You want the resources. Those resources include both the existing infrastructure and the existing people.
philwelch•8mo ago
godelski•8mo ago
So, that's what you were responding to. The destruction you're referring to is "more" complete. Not
This is certainly not the case and clearly not what is being referred to. You're right, that would be preposterous! But I'll suggest, if something sounds absolutely insane, chances are people are miscommunicating. Words hold multiple meanings after all...I don't think it would be accurate to interpret them as saying there would be no blood spilt nor structure tumble. I think we all expect bombs to drop and bullets to fly in this conflict. So we should operate from this expectation.
But also, yes, there have been conquests that have been (almost) entirely peaceful. It's hard to be purely peaceful, but you could look at Russia's original invasion of Crimea. Only a few people were killed. But there are also examples of entire armies defecting or leaders deposed without killing them or destroying buildings. So even in the weaker usage of "destruction", yes, you can definitely conquer a territory without destroying a single building or a single life. Wikipedia even has a list of some of the more famous instances. You'll notice that in many cases control of territory changes[0].
Not to mention we have the entire class of conquests that are over uninhabited regions. But I think we'd agree that's out of scope of the conversation and not really relevant here. Just mentioning as we're talking about how easy it is to miscommunicate. Especially if we were to get into the complicated nature of determining what is a country or not. Taiwan being a perfect example, because clearly the PRC doesn't consider it a country while the ROC does.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bloodless_wars
philwelch•8mo ago
ashoeafoot•8mo ago
ZeroGravitas•8mo ago
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g...
daedrdev•8mo ago
jamesholden•8mo ago
deepsun•8mo ago