React used to transform it into React.createElement("foo", { bar: qux }, "bla")
Now it transforms it into import _jsx from "react/jsx-runtime"; _jsx("foo", { bar: qux }, "bla")
My proposal transforms it into { [Symbol.for('jsx')]: 'foo', bar: qux, children: "bla" }
It's self-contained and generic, doesn't rely on auto-imports or globals, and doesn't have key collisions.
It's the only way I can imagine it ever being standardized.
> 'children' are specified twice. The attribute named 'children' will be overwritten. ts(2710)
There are a few things missing but jsx is sugar that complicates things for me.
Just teach people function composition. It's easier.
And that's irrespectively of my view on jsx, the latter which I find non ergonomic and confusing. That many people are being force fed it to the point of familiarity does not mean that it is the best DX.
we went from (html + js> to html in js and js in html. Quite very confusing to me. Knotty (naughty) complexity pun intended.
It's more akin to stockolm syndrom to not improve on the statu quo at this point.
Describing something very popular as “Stockholm syndrome” because you don’t like it isn’t logical at all.
And it’s easy to say that but I think it's incumbent on you to propose something better if you do.
"No, not JSX. Something better than that." ...but what?
As I have explained somewhere else, plain function and method composition is clearer in my humble opinion.
The beauty of JSX is that it's not HTML, it's much more generic.
> And that's irrespectively of my view on jsx, the latter which I find non ergonomic and confusing.
You're in the very, very small minority here. JSX is very clear and intuitive and natural and ergonomic and lovely to most of us.
And I don't even like React!
Compare:
Without JSX: https://github.com/sdegutis/sys32.90s.dev/blob/26bcb088a3df6...
With JSX: https://github.com/sdegutis/os.90s.dev/blob/cc7310633d9ab186...
But it doesn't go far enough in terms of function composition to pass arguments. The signature (that resembles react.createElement I guess) is too cumbersome.
That creates a succession of braces and comma which is unfortunate. Just to specify some object attributes. That could be easily a function Attr().
We have higher order functions easily in javascript. We should make use of it.
That eliminates html looking jsx since we just use functions. That's less confusing than pseudo html syntax.
https://github.com/hyperhype/hyperscript
https://github.com/mlmorg/react-hyperscript
which might be actually similar except for the dollar sign which adds some noise.
But some of your prop/attr setting would be inner function/methods instead of being passed as an array. That would shorten some lines.
> Show me what that code would look like if it was done better
I'm definitely not going to try to provide an example if you do not offer the courtesy of a smaller representative example though.
By the way, why is $(Label,...) not simply Label()? That could be a function.
After a while of managing commas, you just begin to long for JSX again. Hyperscript wouldn't solve that.
tl;dr:
My proposal transforms <foo bar={qux}>bla</foo> into { [Symbol.for('jsx')]: 'foo', bar: qux, children: "bla" }
It's self-contained, generic, doesn't rely on imports or globals, and avoids tag key collisions. It's the only way I can imagine it ever being standardized.
I currently use JSX for:
* Creating custom GUI view objects in https://90s.dev/os/
* Using JSX as a convenient & composable string-builder in Node.js via https://immaculata.dev/ when generating all my sites at build-time e.g. https://github.com/sdegutis/immaculata.dev/blob/main/site/te...
* Using JSX to generate plain DOM objects in the browser in some of my sites like https://github.com/sdegutis/minigamemaker.com/blob/main/site...
I agree that the current "auto-imports" to find that function are nonsense and far too React specific. But the current "global" approach isn't actually "require a global" it is "requires a variable in scope" so it works with "Bring-Your-Own-Import" just fine. We just need a better standard for what that BYOI function is called by default. `React.createElement` is obviously silly. I've been happy in my own projects standardizing on `jsx` as the function name. (It resembles the auto-imports, too, even if I still don't understand why React thought it needed an extra underscore.)
I think the biggest tweak that would be nice if we are also wishing for ponies would be a way to set that function per block of JSX like the way that you can tag a template. That would make it far easier than the current per-file or per-project configurations.
jsx<foo bar={qux}><zoot>bla</zoot></foo>
That doesn't look terrible. Not great either. But I'm sure the big problem with it is that it makes the `jsx < foo` less than versus `jsx<foo />` tag parsing a lot harder.ETA: New idea, what if it was a fake dot tag .< operator?
jsx.<foo bar={qux}><zoot>bla</zoot></foo>
react.<foo bar={qux}><zoot>bla</zoot></foo>
snabbdom.<foo bar={qux}><zoot>bla</zoot></foo>
Maybe? if (condition) {
// new scope
const jsx = // ...
return <foo/>
}
In practice, "variable in scope" is essentially the same as "global in scope" and React used to require you to import 'react' at the top of every JSX file for this reason. Your solution is tantamount to just changing that to import jsx from 'react' but still requiring it explicitly.The main problem with this is that it's non-trivial to make sure variables are in scope before/while loading a file, and they should be loaded on an as-needed basis instead of always, which is what inevitably ends up happening when you need React classic, you import React at the top of every HTML file. These problems seem to be what led to auto-imports.
I admit that my solution still does require you do something like import interpretJsx from 'something', and even further it requires you to manually call interpretJsx(<foo/>) which can be tedious and verbose.
The main benefit is that at least it becomes a standard. And besides, we probably won't need to call those functions everywhere, just at the top of a tree, like the same place you call React.render(root)
The main downside is lack of monomorphism, especially if you're passing an entire tree to interpretJsx(). I admit this is not solved by my proposal. But I still wanted to put the proposal out before smarter eyes than mine anyway.
This is part of why JSX has always been function calls rather than a data structure to interpret: the recursion to walk the tree is flattened at "compile time".
I don't see why it is a problem you'd need to import your `jsx` function in every file that uses JSX syntax, but perhaps because that's how I've always preferred to use JSX, even with React. Explicit imports are better than implicit ones. If you use lit-html you have to import its `html` function everywhere to get html`` template literals to work. It's not a lot of overhead and it works well. You can add the auto-import smarts to your editor, to your snippet files and template files. Typescript already has a ton of auto-import suggestions as you write a file.
Still, I don't like the React-classic style, the React-autoimport style, or the hybrid that you're advocating for. None work be very ergonomic and require tooling to at least give you errors that you forgot an import, which defeats the purpose of standardizing it at that point.
https://facebook.github.io/jsx/ is a mirage, apparently.
(Emphasis theirs.)
const els = <div/><div/>;
Compare to current ugly solutions: const els = <><div/><div/></>;
const els = [<div/>, <div/>]; const trailingIntetpolation = <><div/>{foo}</>;
const leading = <>{foo}<div/></>;
const bare = <>{foo}</>;Core docs: https://gist.github.com/WebReflection/2d64f34cf58daa812ec876...
If this existed, I might not have found the need to make my little Hyperstatic library (https://jsr.io/@mdekstrand/hyperstatic).
There are dozens of us, dozens!
palmfacehn•8mo ago
cluckindan•8mo ago
palmfacehn•8mo ago
I like to create the HTML and CSS as I'd like it with test data, then just wrap that with <template> tags. Easy to preview without triggering function calls or pasting it into code.
Probably not important, but as I recall I think there was some minor overhead in translating from a JS String to an Element.
pwdisswordfishz•8mo ago
I wish this were available natively.
HelloNurse•8mo ago
palmfacehn•8mo ago
HelloNurse•8mo ago
palmfacehn•8mo ago
Typically I do not find myself using querySelectorAll within the context of a template element. When I do I am usually applying changes universally to all of the matched children within the element. The CSS class of the element reflects these things semantically. I find this highly readable. It also resolves most concerns around the type of the element.
Of course in Vanilla JS, types are a mess. Even Microsoft's finest duct tape script doesn't fully resolve these issues. Overall I find Vanilla JS and browser APIs to be a lesser evil than the build systems, package managers and indirection of the React/Next.js approaches. After all, these compiled environments and their libraries will boil down to Vanilla JS when deployed in the browser.
90s_dev•8mo ago
WorldMaker•8mo ago
[0] https://worldmaker.net/butterfloat/#/stamps