This "dangerous surveillance bill" simply protects people who are using tracking pixels (commonly used for serving targeted ads) from frivolous lawsuits.
Of course, the EFF doesn't actually tell you what the bill SAYS here, it instead breathlessly, dramatically, announces "SB 690 gives the green-light to dystopian big tech surveillance practices which will endanger the privacy and safety of all Californians".
The fact that EFF has to obfuscate the content of the bill this much says a lot.
cosmicgadget•23h ago
The digest seems to say that two-party consent would no longer be required for business communications. Do I misunderstand it or is it way more expansive than shielding ad tech?
zdp7•20h ago
I think it is worse than you are thinking. I agree with kyborens comment saying this allows tapping all calls. I could see an app, a game for example, that would transfer all call audio to the app owner. As long as it is used for a commercial business purpose, it would be ok
phendrenad2•5h ago
But what is a "legitimate business purpose"? And what other laws come into play that prevent the business from using it as they will, such as the CCPA? At this point I feel like everyone is just being willingly ignorant of the facts to spin a certain narrative, because it's more "fun".
kyboren•23h ago
Whatever the intent, this bill effectively legalizes wiretapping and pen register'ing (i.e. recording phone numbers and IP:port logs you've communicated with) as long as it's for a "commercial purpose".
Far from merely shielding tracking pixel abusers from "frivolous" lawsuits, this bill legalizes wiretapping all your calls and browsing sessions and selling the recordings to the cops. It even had a retroactive immunity clause, which at least seems to have been stripped out.
PS: Your strident defense of the surveillance industry and caustic dismissal of warnings from a well-known and credible civil rights organization makes me wonder where your interests lie. What is your involvement in the industry and what role, if any, did you play in the passage of this bill in the CA Senate?
phendrenad2•19h ago
Okay let's get one thing out of the way: You can't use a narrow legalese-defined definition of "wiretapping" and act like it's the same as the popular definition of wiretapping. You do this when you talk about the "wiretapping" in the bill and say that it "really is that crazy". You might not realize that you're doing this, because it might be so ingrained in your training as, whatever profession you are, but it doesn't fly with me. You MUST choose between one definition or the other, and either way, your argument falls apart.
Secondly, if "someone disagrees with me an organization I like in a strident and caustic way" is enough to make you reach for an ad hominem, then that just shows an unfortunate delusionality on your part. Not really helpful to your cause me-thinks.
> Far from merely shielding tracking pixel abusers from "frivolous" lawsuits <blah blah blah>
It appears that we agree on the substance of my argument. Which is enough for me.
EDIT: After reading a comment below, it seems that you might actually be using the "popular" definition of wiretapping, in which case, please provide an example of a scenario where this law allows something nefarious, taking into account other laws such as the CCPA. I doubt one exists.
hex4def6•18h ago
If exempting "commercial purposes" from a law results in no harm being done to anyone, then you are arguing the law is shouldn't exist in the first place.
CCPA appears to limitations based on the size of the enterprise, so that doesn't guarantee protection.
So, which state laws prevent someone from wiretapping my communications and then selling it?
phendrenad2•17h ago
Which law prevents someone from wiretapping your communications in New York? Or Florida?
zdp7•21h ago
"SECTION 1. Section 631 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
631. (a) A person who, by means of a machine, instrument, or contrivance, or in any other manner, intentionally taps, or makes an unauthorized connection, whether physically, electrically, acoustically, inductively, or otherwise, with a telegraph or telephone wire, line, cable, or instrument, including the wire, line, cable, or instrument of an internal telephonic communication system, or who willfully and without the consent of all parties to the communication, or in an unauthorized manner, reads, or attempts to read, or to learn the contents or meaning of a message, report, or communication while the same is in transit or passing over a wire, line, or cable, or is being sent from, or received at any place within this state; or who uses, or attempts to use, in any manner, or for any purpose, or to communicate in any way, information so obtained, or who aids, agrees with, employs, or conspires with any person or persons to unlawfully do, or permit, or cause to be done any of the acts or things mentioned above in this section, is punishable by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by both a fine and imprisonment in the county jail or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. If the person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section or Section 632, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, the offense is punishable by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(b) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(1) A public utility, or telephone company, engaged in the business of providing communications services and facilities, or to the officers, employees or agents thereof, where the acts otherwise prohibited herein are for the purpose of construction, maintenance, conduct, or operation of the services and facilities of the public utility or telephone company.
(2) The use of any instrument, equipment, facility, or service furnished and used pursuant to the tariffs of a public utility.
(3) A telephonic communication system used for communication exclusively within a state, county, city and county, or city correctional facility.
(4) A commercial business purpose.
(c) For purposes of this section, “telephone company” has the same meaning as defined in paragraph (3) of subdivision (c) of Section 638.
(d) Except as proof in an action or prosecution for violation of this section, evidence obtained in violation of this section is not admissible in a judicial, administrative, legislative, or other proceeding."
Did you read this? It exempts commercial business purposes from the consequences of tapping communications without authorization.
phendrenad2•19h ago
So what you're implying is that my apartment complex can MITM my TLS connections and sell my data? And my window-cleaning company can use lasers to bug my office? And there's no recourse for me? There are no other laws that cover this? Such as at the federal level? Or, are you missing important context and other factors?
zdp7•17h ago
Are you implying that the bill is meaningless? If I place a device on your phone or wire tap your phone I would be subject to fine and jail under section 631 of the penal code. Here's Google's summary: "California Penal Code Section 631 primarily addresses wiretapping and eavesdropping, making it illegal to intentionally tap into or connect to a telegraph or telephone line without authorization. It also prohibits reading or attempting to read messages while they are in transit, using information obtained through wiretapping, and aiding or conspiring with others to commit these offenses." With this change section 631 no longer applies to someone doing this for a commercial business purpose. Maybe the reasoning is benign, but I feel like this could be used to violate my privacy and it's not really clear what legitimate business issue this remedies. This is about gaining access to communications you aren't authorized to access. Can you provide any reason we need to let business put an inductive coupler on my phone without letting me know?
bigbadfeline•12h ago
> Maybe the reasoning is benign,
They may act like silly old men but they aren't stupid, they know reason and they know the implications - all of them. That's the true intent.
phendrenad2•5h ago
I don't understand why my argument is so hard to understand. Let me try again. I'm not saying the law is meaningless, I'm saying that the specific application of the law that is walked back by this new law is useless except for the purposes of nuisance lawsuits to shake down businesses. Now, I asked you if specific examples would be legal if this change went into effect, which you completely declined to comment on, which tells me you aren't that sure of your position.
GuinansEyebrows•18h ago
> This "dangerous surveillance bill" simply protects people who are using tracking pixels (commonly used for serving targeted ads) from frivolous lawsuits.
Why should a company's "right" to seek profit through advertising infringe upon my right to privacy on the web?
phendrenad2•1d ago
Of course, the EFF doesn't actually tell you what the bill SAYS here, it instead breathlessly, dramatically, announces "SB 690 gives the green-light to dystopian big tech surveillance practices which will endanger the privacy and safety of all Californians".
The fact that EFF has to obfuscate the content of the bill this much says a lot.
cosmicgadget•23h ago
zdp7•20h ago
phendrenad2•5h ago
kyboren•23h ago
Far from merely shielding tracking pixel abusers from "frivolous" lawsuits, this bill legalizes wiretapping all your calls and browsing sessions and selling the recordings to the cops. It even had a retroactive immunity clause, which at least seems to have been stripped out.
Yes, it really is that crazy. Read it yourself here: https://legiscan.com/CA/text/SB690/2025
PS: Your strident defense of the surveillance industry and caustic dismissal of warnings from a well-known and credible civil rights organization makes me wonder where your interests lie. What is your involvement in the industry and what role, if any, did you play in the passage of this bill in the CA Senate?
phendrenad2•19h ago
Secondly, if "someone disagrees with me an organization I like in a strident and caustic way" is enough to make you reach for an ad hominem, then that just shows an unfortunate delusionality on your part. Not really helpful to your cause me-thinks.
> Far from merely shielding tracking pixel abusers from "frivolous" lawsuits <blah blah blah>
It appears that we agree on the substance of my argument. Which is enough for me.
EDIT: After reading a comment below, it seems that you might actually be using the "popular" definition of wiretapping, in which case, please provide an example of a scenario where this law allows something nefarious, taking into account other laws such as the CCPA. I doubt one exists.
hex4def6•18h ago
CCPA appears to limitations based on the size of the enterprise, so that doesn't guarantee protection.
So, which state laws prevent someone from wiretapping my communications and then selling it?
phendrenad2•17h ago
zdp7•21h ago
phendrenad2•19h ago
zdp7•17h ago
bigbadfeline•12h ago
They may act like silly old men but they aren't stupid, they know reason and they know the implications - all of them. That's the true intent.
phendrenad2•5h ago
GuinansEyebrows•18h ago
Why should a company's "right" to seek profit through advertising infringe upon my right to privacy on the web?