My most surprising observation about having children is that, although instinctively you think you'll be doing much much less fun stuff than before children, it's not actually true. Yes, there is a decrease, and you tend to be more tired. But even aside from whether children themselves are fun, I got much better at squeezing fun out of less free time. I'd say I do 80% of sports etc I did pre-kids. And then as the kids get bigger, they do become genuinely fun. I take mine climbing. It's not hardcore, more sweet and mellow, but it's fun.
What did massively change for me is relationship dynamics, but that's perhaps a different story.
But most of the scaremongering wasn't about teen parenthood. It was just about parenthood, and life once you have too many responsibilities to enjoy being a teen. So once you do reach the age that raising children is more responsible, you still have to get past the same fears.
Society has an irritating way of 'hazing' its juniors by telling them life keeps on going downhill. So far I've found the opposite, and that I'd be better equipped to handle it anyway.
I'm male, and give the same advice to my daughters.
Also, very few men die in childbirth.
True, and I should have pointed that out explicitly because you're absolutely right. I've seen what my wife went through having two children.
> To a man, it can be nothing more than ejaculation.
OK?
The fact that some males - I won't call them "men" - are terrible people is exactly my point.
For any person, their choice of partner dictates the course of the rest of their life. That includes "no partner", FWIW. It's the difference between having a true partner in life and having one more person to support.
> Also, very few men die in childbirth.
... but many more men die at jobs they work to support those children than women.
Feel squeamish about bodily fluids? Don't worry the kids will cure you. Nothing like trying to do a Matrix style bullet time dodge when you are changing a nappy and the cold air makes your son let loose with a stream of pee.
And then they look at you and giggle and the world is perfect. Wouldn't change it for the word, but enjoy life first then have the kids. Its not worse just very very different and you can't go back.
But kids eventually grow up, and you get back most of your free time.
You might not have the same energy nor desires at that point though.
We do lots of things because of the impact they have on our mental and emotional state.
They learned from the best drill instructor of all: a newborn.
Clearly my view is anecdotal, but folks who feel fulfilled by means other than children do not seem to view having children as a priority. Nothing wrong with either direction, but quite striking how everyone I knew but two couples still living in the midwest have had kids vs my new lively city where not many seem interested at all.
People aren't happy if they yearn for the life they had before.
But I’ve been lucky in this regard. I was deeply conflicted going into it. But all of that doubt left me the moment I first held him in my arms. I don’t know if circumstances were different whether I would’ve had the same experience.
And the scariest part about becoming a parent is that there’s no way for you to try it out. I had been an uncle for decades before becoming a parent. Those experiences are not the same.
The choice to become a parent, or to not become a parent, is one of those choices in life that requires a leap of faith. There’s no way to explore the counter factual.
But, for those of you on the fence, let me say this. We all come from a long line of parents. I believe that there are certain rewards placed in our brain by evolution that are only unlocked by becoming a parent. Nothing can help you understand your parents and the love you did or didn’t receive from them quite like loving your own child.
No, it requires sticking one's gonads inside another's gonads and agitating briefly, during a not-rare selection window.
We don't come from a long line of voluntary parents. I had zero of them, directly.
I still agree that being a parent is an amazing, life-transforming event that has gigantic potential upsides. But it also has gigantic potential downsides, including financial ruin, lifelong misery, and/or sudden death (for at least one of the parents).
All I'm saying is: most of our ancestors didn't choose anything when they rubbed cloacae.
But my son is awesome, and there's absolutely no way I'd trade him back for any of that.
(Things are better now btw, not perfect, but improved)
Other commenters have written much more emotional and spot on view points.
What an amazing world we live in where we can make that choice.
I think of my friends - they all seem firmly in the camp of "having kids is awesome". Even the one friend who almost died from her pregnancy (her daughter is now 13, plays saxophone, wears all black and has blue hair).
YMMV.
latexr•8mo ago
Yes, I’ve had a baby fall asleep on my chest. Personally I prefer when a cat does it.
Yes, I’ve seen a baby sneeze. It doesn’t even register in my top favourite things and definitely does not make up for the rest.
Yes, I make my friends laugh, and I’ve made them wheeze hard until they’re out of breath with clever ideas we can all build upon. If your friends are faking laughs around you and in a way you can’t tell, I’m afraid to say maybe they’re just acquaintances.
Yes, I’ve been stared at with “unfiltered love and wonder”. By an adult, who has reason to and does it out of genuine felt affection for the person I am and the things I do, not simply because I’m the person in front of them and they’re ignorant of everything around them.
And on and on. I could address literally every point.
Look, you do you. If you enjoy being a parent, more power to you. But this list doesn’t really “[contribute] to the debate” nor will it “help others make up their mind”, especially when the cons are clearly dishonest or at best uninformed by a fatherhood which hasn’t even spanned half a year yet. You’re either trying really hard to convince yourself that you like being a parent (which is a bad sign) or you’re genuinely so happy (good sign) that you just wanted to gush to the world. Which is fine, sometimes we just want to share what makes us happy and that’s positive, let’s just not pretend this list is in any way an honest attempt at conversation.
windward•8mo ago
Cringing at the thought of expressing yourself isn't healthy.
latexr•8mo ago
That’s not what I said, and if you engage with my comment until the end in good faith you might realise that. I specifically said it is a positive for the author to share what makes them happy.
But “cringe” was definitely the wrong word and weakened what I was attempting to express. I had just came from that subreddit and failed to identify the correct feeling. This is not an excuse, the error there was mine.
> There is no extracting the objective from the emotional when the very topic is the emotions it makes you feel.
Then be honest about it and say you’re sharing your experience, don’t pretend to be making a list to “contribute to the discussion” or “help others make up their mind”. That’s my point. I was genuinely interested in the article until I realised it was just personal gushing. Which again, is fine, just be honest about it.
In other words, I completely agree with you. But what you’re defending the author for is not what they did.
reillyse•8mo ago
I’m two months in with my first child and I can honestly say I’ve never experienced love like this, it’s awesome and I feel everyone should get to experience it.
latexr•8mo ago
Additionally, while I have zero question that kids are the best thing ever for some people, it’s important to recognise that is not a universal feeling. Which isn’t just theoretical, some people do have kids and are or became miserable. You lucked out, and I’m genuinely happy for you (and your kids, because having a happy parent will give them a better life).
In short, kids are not a universal experience in either direction and it’s nonsensical to claim that would be the case.
orwin•8mo ago
One of my cousins had difficult pregnancies, and finally managed to have a kid around 10 years ago. Since basically COVID, when her child was around 6, she started fleeing her house, finding more and more stuff to do, quitting a balanced job to go into entrepreneurship that ate her days, and basically stopped interacting with her child. After a disaster (an ecological one), they had to come back last winter, and she finally broke down in front of her mother and aunts saying she doesn't love her child as much as she should, she doesn't feel any joy in parenting, that she is a bad mom and should have her child removed as she can't look at him without feeling guilty.
I'm pretty sure a honest description of what being a parent means, and people saying to her that you don't _have_ to feel the same as others before she hurt her relationship with her child would have been helpful (but well, spilled milk and all that).
My personal opinion is that people mostly lie to themselves then to others about what they really feel in general, so posts like this have no impact on my opinion (that said, children are great: the 4 month to 30month is a bit of a grind and difficult, but once they're past that its fun and games).
munksbeer•8mo ago