Closely related to this, I have been continually frustrated with the insistence of the left wing that it borders on immoral to take a job as a soldier, police officer, prison guard, or bailiff, and that there's no reason to raise any of their pay. That leaves the various armed forces around the country staffed with individuals who feel very little opposition to rote authoritarianism, corruption, and rule-by-force. There are relatively few individuals working in day-to-day policing or intelligence work that spend a lot of time thinking about the duty of agents of the state to follow its laws.
And yes, it's immoral to become a cop, just as it was immoral to become a european camp guard in the forties. There might be some mitigating factor like efficiently using it for infiltration and subversion because you didn't understand the morality of it until you were already employed, or being threatened into such a position.
Absolute wild take. Do you think every police department in the US oppresses minorities and infringes on civil rights or something?
>just as it was immoral to become a european camp guard in the forties
Even for the Allies? Given the prior sentence, I can't tell whether you're trying to allude to Nazi concentration camp guards, or actually think all camp guards are immoral.
There are some people who not only believe this but can make very compelling cases that this is the case. It's a dead-end rhetorical argument; yes, it is actually possible for literally every precinct in the US to violate people's civil rights.
The difference is that some people, like (I suspect) the person you're responding to, seem to think that the position itself--armed law enforcement officer--is archetypically immoral and should not exist as a function or profession in a civilization. This is naive to to the point of absurdity and underwrites most of the idiocy that's widely abound in anti-policing movements. In one breath they claim that "police" are as a class immoral, and in the next they proclaim that their political opponents must be "brought to justice" by armed people following a set of written laws. It's absurd!
I've been thinking a lot about this same thing. I've seen a marked rise in the number of complaints about how "everyone in law enforcement is MAGA" and the like, and can't help but think: "this is what you wanted, right?"
There have been a lot of people trying really hard to make law enforcement (and adjacent roles) entirely unpalatable, and it appears they've been largely successful! I think what they failed to take into account is that they were only making those roles unpalatable tothose who already think like them in other ways, and forgot that there are a lot of people out there with fundamentally different beliefs who are not dissuaded by ACAB-adjacent arguments. Or, worse yet, are actively attracted to the way the role is being portrayed!
So in the end, it seems like they achieved their goals, but perhaps overlooked how those goals might have some unintended consequences.
I never really understood the argument, either. If you think policing is rife with prejudice and abuse of power, why are you trying to demonize the whole job? Why wouldn't you be signing up for it, instead? After all, if you think it's being done wrong, the best way to right that wrong is by doing it yourself and setting a better example.
I think the fact that people prefer to publicly demonize an entire thing, instead of doing the hard work of making it right, is one of the most insidious features of modern social media.
It all just sounded so implausible. It reads like someone trying to spin a story to convince others of what they already wanted to believe, or maybe that kid in grade school who tells stories he read or saw, but swaps himself for the main character.
Why should I believe this person more than any random internet crank?
I don't think I'll be able to bridge the gap by lecturing or pointing things out or huffing about journalism. But I have no choice but to try something, because I care for you and for us.
I guess what I'd say is, to keep from lecturing, it's very normal to be in detention for multiple days once you've tripped the first wire. There's been many stories like this shared, you can see some of the effects [here](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=05c894fd792d1e12&rlz=1...), no tricks, no bias, just a search for "cbp detention" in Google news.
Some headlines: ‘Like a jail cell’: Family of six detained at Washington state border facility for more than three weeks, German tourist held indefinitely in San Diego-area immigrant detention facility, Green card holder from New Hampshire 'interrogated' at Logan Airport, detained, ‘Felt like a kidnapping’: Wrong turn leads to 5-day detention ordeal
Secondly, df you read his blog, he pretty clearly is an activist, as he focuses on a single topic, has chosen a side, and also is acting upon it by protesting.
Which part of journalism doesn't involve "political engagement"? Selecting which stories are covered, and how prominently? Choosing whom to interview and deciding what questions to ask? Which details are important enough to include, and which to omit? There is no cogent definition of "journalism" by which it is not an intrinsically political activity.
> Secondly, df you read his blog, he pretty clearly is an activist, as he focuses on a single topic, has chosen a side
That is common among journalists; it is called a "beat".
> and also is acting upon it by protesting.
Hundreds of millions of people all over the world protest. 2–4 million did so in the U.S. alone yesterday. Are they all "activists"?
Also, most journalists just investigate and present stories by assembling what they found. And then they go and investigate another topic. But this person has just one topic.
I'd say people who consistently protest and consistently write about the topic are activists, yes. Do you need an even stronger definition?
You really don't want to get into categorizing speech as protected or not based on content.
"politically engaged" in this case refers to participating in the protests itself, or even taking a particular side. It's the opposite of being "objective", back when that was an ideal to strive for. Nowadays "objectivity" is being dropped in favor of "moral clarity".
>That is common among journalists; it is called a "beat".
No. Writing about resturants in New York is a "beat". Writing pieces consistently favoring one side is being an activist.
>Hundreds of millions of people all over the world protest. 2–4 million did so in the U.S. alone yesterday. Are they all "activists"?
Yes? Are you going to gatekeep "actvist" to people who are card carrying DSA members or something?
For some reason I have been fixated on license plate readers (probably not a bad parallel to Palantir?). Plenty of people on HN justifiably decry license plate readers due to their violation of our privacy (to be sure there's an argument to made though since you are technically "in public" when driving — your privacy protections might be on shaky legal grounds).
But if license plate readers are already a reality (we know they are), why should only private actors have that data? This would make sense if we completely trusted those private actors, of course.
The opposite could be a public, open-source license plate reader that caught on (people using dash cams + open software) — the data sent to a collective, public database. (Perhaps the software strips out personal license plates — only logging tags of official or government vehicles?).
My first reaction is the degree to which that could be abused by ... stalkers? Truly a bad thing. But then I ask myself to what degree the private license plate readers are perhaps "being abused" (or will be more and more) and we don't even know about it.
As I say, a thought experiment that I find myself seeing merits both for and against.
He was also proud of paying more for some kind of exclusive license to the data, that Floc wasn't going to sell his surveillance data to other entities. I never really believed that.
Respond to, yes. Disclose, not necessarily. I believe ALPR data are exempt from disclosure in some - perhaps many, and maybe even most - states.
I'm not sure if you consider governments and police to be private actors?
I spoke with a sophisticated ANPR city-wide tracking vendor recently at a conference. From their video showing the system following vehicles in real-time, with detailed movement tracking, speed measurement, lane position, estimating model, age, demographic etc. when they couldn't see the registration plate, from all sorts of vantage points, it looked to me like they would know where basically everyone who drives is at all times as they moved around.
So, as a privacy advocate, I asked them about tracking and knowing where every driver is all the time, and they assured me: "It's ok. We send all this data immediatel;y to the police. The police are responsible for keeping the data safe. They only use it when they decide it's appropriate."
I was there interested in privacy and traffic monitoring, but there was almost nobody to speak with who seemed to think about privacy, except in a checkbox sort of way, e.g. "when you're in public there's no legal right to privacy" and "our systems are fully compliant with data protection".
I was taught many, many times growing up in the U.S. that people had a right to privacy, to free speech, to being considered innocent until proven guilty.
When governmental organizations police the speech of individuals for things that are critical of the regime, we lose our right to free speech.
When they download the contents of your phone when you travel, you lose the right to privacy.
When people are denied a writ of habeas corpus, when they are trafficked to countries that are not from and have never been to, we are considered guilty unless we have people "on the outside" who are capable of fighting for our return.
They aren't even trying to make an argument for this, outside of the cult of personality of the current regime, the belief that He can do no wrong. If you "both-sides" this you allow the trends to continue.
I'm curious to hear this argument. When I'm walking around a city, I'm in public as well. But I don't have to tell everybody who I am, and I would find facial recognition cameras spread around the city as a privacy violation.
Valar Ventures.
Mithril Capital.
Lembas LLC.
It’s remarkable to me how someone like Thiel could be such a fan of Lord of the Rings, with its central themes of the corrupting influence of unchecked power and good triumphing over evil and evil’s will to control and dominate—then decide to become Gollum.
The world, at the highest levels of competition and leadership, doesn't run on morals, it runs on unscrupulous force, conquest and domination. See: the human history for the past infinity years. Those who tried to maintain peace on morals instead of force, got eliminated form the gene pool. People should remember this more often.
Fortunately not so; some time around 50-100kya, humans rapidly became a whole lot nicer to each other.
Do you really think Putin, Xi and Khamenei are better stewards of the world than the West?
The West's introspective nature is good and all, but sometimes we unwittingly forget that there is actual evil in the world, and it's much worse than saying mean things on Twitter, or putting facts above feelings.
Students in Iran literally die protesting the regime, meanwhile students here who live a life of luxury and don't know what actual oppression is "protest"/simp for the Iranians (or one of their various proxies)...
I'm sure they're saying the same things about the West.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/355/607/670
Saying it doesn't make it true though.
Can you at least give an example for your assertion?
This is no more informative than saying "Trump is literally Hitler/Jesus (depending on your POV)".
> Can you at least give an example for your assertion?
Intelligence is needed to bring harm to adversaries. Determine the intel, determine the adversary.
In this case, Theil massively funded an election
and then his data corp got the unprecedented access
to US Gov's most sensitive datasets (ss, dhs, irs, etc).
This includes compiling new databases that target migrants,
built from data across multiple DHS agencies.
Database of migrants, you do know that it's normal for governments to keep track of who's in their country, right? It's why passports have your name, picture, DOB, etc... on them...
>> Theil is spearheading a campaign
>> of untold suffering to minorities and poor people.
the quoted part in this... > So where's the "untold suffering to minorities and poor people"?
...unhelpfully misstates the GP's assertion.That assertion is that Theil is leadership within a campaign.
The assertion is the campaign is intended to harm the vulnerable.
Funding an election to gain access to the data needed to build new datasets that specifically target a vulnerable segment of the population - this is evidence of who the campaign is targeting.
You're twisting your thinking in knots acting like the authority claimed by some news, then contradicting itself, creates authority to the contrary. Really you're just helping spread brain rot.
With it's middle finger to due process and courts, it clearly isn't. It's a particularly un-American administration.
Also, that rhetoric of The West vs the world is a bit lazy. Things are more complex, even recent events prove The West is not a unified block where everyone thinks the same way.
Reminder - Iran offered support after 9/11 but instead we rebuffed them and called them part of the axis of evil just because. Right at a time when they were really modernizing again but our jingoistic attitudes entrenched the autocrats further.
They agreed to a nuclear deal that we tore up just because.
We overthrew their government.
We have presidential candidates singing “bomb bomb bomb Iran” for fun.
The reason we have a bad relationship with Iran and a large reason why they have bad leaders is because the US has made it so.
Did the US make Iran oppress women and minorities? Everytime Iran executes people who oppose the regime, is it because the US made them do it?
So why does US have bad relations with most of their neighbours? Why does US support terrorism against countries? Did Iran make US oppress women and minorities?
USA? Check (the new entrant). China? Check. Russia? Check. India? Check. Japan? Check (too few neighbors though) Iran? Check. Israel? Check. EU? Check. Saudi Arabia? An exception. Brazil? Another exception. UK? Check. (lol)
Even then, Iran still has strong ties with all of those neighbors. They trade actively, US sanctions be damned, and would pounce at the opportunity to invest in Iran if given the opportunity (Iran's industries are basically all owned by the Ayatollah and IRGC currently).
Why on earth would anyone think Khomeini (who, of course, has been dead for 24 years) would ever have any say over the West?
You’re deeply afraid of a very strange bogeyman. It seems odd to pretend that Peter Thiel also fears dead men in politically/economically/socially irrelevant countries.
Khameini, of course, also has absolutely nothing to do with anything and is a nonsensical bogeyman. He just happens to still be alive.
In reality "evil" people almost always want to genuinely make the world a better place, and they are fighting "ignorant" people who are dragging society down by not conforming to their golden vision. And then "evil" becomes largely a function of who you ask. It's the opposition that labels them evil, not society on the whole.
There are very few leaders ever who are straight up storybook style evil. Almost all of them were/are deranged people who convinced enough people of their ostensibly good vision to begin executing it.
No one came to power because they wanted to turn society into burning rumble while they ate babies during daily random execution time. It's all nuance and complication.
I would have to disagree here...lots of historical examples of criminal gangs, privateers, etc seeking to simply do harm.
[1] https://www.gbnews.com/news/renaud-camus-banned-migration-vi...
[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/what-eu...
I'm confused where this question is coming from. Do cases have to be exactly the same to draw parallels?
> It seems unlikely to me that a journalist who'd written flattering things about the AFD would be treated so badly trying to visit Germany?
Germany is a bad example, as they're deporting and planning to even revoke citizenship based on speech:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/4/14/germany-orders-depo...
https://theintercept.com/2025/03/31/germany-gaza-protesters-...
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-could-withdraw-citizenship-due...
Everything described in the thread has been going on since the Patriot Act was signed in 2001.
As early as 2010, I was able to look up ANY IMEI/IMSI combo in Proton and see all links to other IMEI/SI collected worldwide.
By 2013 I could query those in Palantir on a Secret or SCI level depending on who held the data which would also aggregate and provide to me OSINT, LE reports or other data associated with those id
What’s new here?
Is it just that more people know about it now?
All the stuff I described above was public information as to both “capabilities” and used as casus belli for warrants (US) or kinetic actions (OCONUS).
This administration is, as with everything else, discarding the "norms" based restraint that previously applied to their use.
“Lost in the noise” no more
ftfy
Did you mean PRISM? When I think of Proton, I think of a genuine effort to assist people in maintaining security.
The danger is when the fascists take charge and start abusing it.
And the new thing here is just that.
What has changed is that now they're actually using this to a degree that even China generally does not do. If a German had written a comment in support of the Hong Kong protests on Facebook at some point in time, they're extremely unlikely to get denied entry to China over this, despite them almost certainly having even stronger capabilities and databases to easily find this out.
Also note that the IRS and Social Security data is protected and access is a serious crime. So the responsible Feds are long fired or resigned.
The access was given to Palantir. Your statement is dismissive in a way that suggests this dangerous situation no longer exists.
Are you asserting that Palantir no longer has access to this data?
This is an important point.
The Bush admin established systems to surveil ~everyone in the US (not suspected of a crime) in bulk. Bulk surveillance is the well known, core component of systems intended to harm people (in bulk).
This got a pass from Bush supporters (inc me at first). It got little-to-no strong pushback elsewhere.
The Obama admin massively expanded Bush era surveillance systems. This got a pass from nearly everyone (excepting a period after the Edward Snowden revelations).
Not holding a reasonable PotUS accountable - this gifts power to the unreasonable ones that follow.
Obama's first campaign ran on him opposing warrantless wiretapping and blanket immunity for telecoms. He also unequivocally condemned torture, promised to revise/sunset the Patriot Act, copperfasten Roe v Wade 'Day 1', etc...
But virtually all the Democrats I knew didn't give a single shit when he 180'd on all of that in his first few months. Still blows my mind a bit to this day; a marvel of mass brainwashing.
Now we're at the point where Democrats can arm and enable a literal holocaust inflicted on some of the world's poorest and most beautiful people, then get on a high horse when someone suggests voting for a non-genocidal party.
The ratchet effect is beyond extreme; and quite obvious for observant people with an outside perspective. Yet somehow Americans still seem to have hope that voting Dem hard enough will fix things. I wish I knew what it would take to inflict a sense of morality on the country.
sorcerer-mar•8h ago
idontwantthis•7h ago
thenthenthen•7h ago
hungmung•6h ago
WarOnPrivacy•4h ago
While that may help explain the unproductive, unconstitutional behavior he experienced (now normalized at our borders), it does not excuse it.
maeil•5h ago
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation_in_the_Russian_...