frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

macOS email clients that might work better for you than Apple Mail

https://www.zdnet.com/article/4-macos-email-clients-that-might-work-better-for-you-than-apple-mail/
1•eligrid•44s ago•0 comments

Google's switch to TSMC for Pixel 10 chip was a 'shock' for Samsung

https://9to5google.com/2025/06/18/google-tsmc-pixel-10-chip-samsung-shock-report/
1•pdyc•1m ago•0 comments

New AI technique makes LLMs write code more like real programmers

https://fedecarg.medium.com/new-ai-technique-makes-llms-write-code-more-like-real-programmers-3c84ec4fcf18
1•researchai•1m ago•0 comments

Interactive C/C++ in the browser with WASM and JupyterLite

https://blog.jupyter.org/c-in-jupyter-interpreting-c-in-the-web-c9d93542f20b
1•droelf•1m ago•0 comments

New Report Just Crushed the AI Hype. Brand Still Wins

https://gazeon.site/this-new-report-just-crushed-the-ai-hype-brand-still-wins/
1•eligrid•2m ago•0 comments

Google's punishment of adblock users is understandable, but not any less awful

https://www.techradar.com/streaming/googles-punishment-of-adblocking-youtube-viewers-is-understandable-but-that-doesnt-make-it-any-less-awful
1•josephcsible•4m ago•0 comments

Spain says April blackout was caused by grid failures and poor planning

https://apnews.com/article/spain-portugal-power-outage-electricity-blackout-045a47f67c817f478aee35d62c01203c
2•mykowebhn•5m ago•0 comments

Security breach of 16B logins includes Apple IDs

https://www.macworld.com/article/2820280/shocking-security-breach-of-16-billion-logins-includes-apple-ids.html
1•Jerry2•5m ago•0 comments

Tips for Building with Cardboard: How to Make It Stronger and Waterproof [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45JhacvmXV8
1•smusamashah•5m ago•0 comments

Indicators of Global Climate Change 2024

https://www.earth-system-science-data.net/about/news_and_press/2025-06-19_indicators-of-global-climate-change-2024-annual-update-of-key-indicators-of-the-state-of-the-climate-system-and-human-influence.html
1•julosflb•6m ago•0 comments

CSS Cascade Layers vs. BEM vs. Utility Classes: Specificity Control

https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2025/06/css-cascade-layers-bem-utility-classes-specificity-control/
1•ulrischa•7m ago•0 comments

Agentic LLMs

https://www.thomas-huehn.com/agentic-llms/
1•Tomte•7m ago•0 comments

Sam Altman 'constantly' asked ChatGPT questions about his newborn

https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/18/kid-pilled-sam-altman-constantly-asked-chatgpt-questions-about-his-newborn/
1•HelloUsername•7m ago•0 comments

Marijuana's Links to Heart Attack and Stroke Are Becoming Clearer

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/19/well/marijuana-heart-health-risks.html
2•brandonb•10m ago•0 comments

Show HN: AI Trivia Game

https://apps.apple.com/il/app/90s-trivia-feed-quiz-game/id6747026509
1•dortal•12m ago•0 comments

Chinese Studios Plan AI Remakes of Classic Kung Fu Movies

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/china-ai-remakes-kung-fu-films-bruce-lee-jackie-chan-jet-li-1236295093/
1•HelloUsername•13m ago•0 comments

Microsoft 365 brings the shutters down on legacy protocols

https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/19/the_microsoft_axeman_is_coming/
1•rntn•13m ago•0 comments

How Much Do the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders Get Paid?

https://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/a65107310/dallas-cowboy-cheerleaders-raise-explained/
1•Tomte•15m ago•0 comments

Htmz – a minimalist HTML microframework

https://leanrada.com/htmz/
1•vyrotek•15m ago•0 comments

Show HN: ZenQuery – Query your data files (CSV, parquet, etc.) in plain English

2•freakynit•18m ago•0 comments

Huang's Law

https://thechipletter.substack.com/p/huangs-law
1•rbanffy•23m ago•0 comments

Postly – A privacy-first, open social platform for creators

https://postlyapp.com
1•Malik-Whitten•25m ago•2 comments

Show HN: LLM-Bible – A Visual Interface for Exploring the Latest LLM Research

https://llm-bible.github.io
1•sjm213•27m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Cursor AI for Thinking

https://irulan.xyz
1•tobilobaaa•28m ago•2 comments

State Power Sponsored by Coinbase

https://www.citationneeded.news/issue-86/
2•wslh•28m ago•0 comments

Show HN: New Python GUI Framework (better than others?)

https://github.com/mebaadwaheed/winup
1•ebaadesque•29m ago•0 comments

Show HN: pshunt: Terminal app for easily killing processes

https://github.com/jamesma100/pshunt
1•battle-racket•31m ago•1 comments

Can Europe Level Up Its Defense Game?

https://defragzone.substack.com/p/can-europe-level-up-its-defense-game
1•frag•33m ago•0 comments

AI Pressure from the Top: CEOs Urge Workers to Adapt

https://gazeon.site/ai-pressure-from-the-top-ceos-urge-workers-to-adapt/
2•eligrid•34m ago•2 comments

Desktop Pictures taken by Steve Jobs (2020)

https://techreflect.org/2020/05/desktop-pictures-taken-by-steve-jobs/
1•chaosmachine•34m ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

End of 10: Upgrade your old Windows 10 computer to Linux

https://endof10.org/
125•doener•5h ago

Comments

mrweasel•3h ago
One thing I've noticed is that the price of used hardware has gone up in my area. Sadly it seems like the Windows 10 only hardware is getting scrapped, rather than getting price dumped.
mathattack•3h ago
Perhaps it's getting repurposed?

Think about the demand and supply curves of calculations (or computation). For most of history, they moved in tandem, with supply moving slightly faster, so computers would always do more at slightly lower costs.

Now both curves are speeding up, but demand is moving faster, so the costs of hardware are going up. And when high end servers (with GPUs) are unavailable, people hold onto the older ones longer.

subjectsigma•3h ago
Clean, clear, compelling. I’m not a huge fan of desktop Linux and I’ve posted that several times, but I can still find joy in other people’s success. This is the kind of marketing work that operating systems like Mint and Ubuntu need! Thanks for posting and/or making this.
juujian•3h ago
With three or four major GUIs out there, that's a bit of a sweeping statement, no? What's the negative that applies to all distros?
all2•2h ago
Probably, yes. A lot is plug and play, but not all.

Having set one parent up on Mint, I can say categorically that it is still a bit of a config nightmare.

jonfw•2h ago
Two negatives that are actively made worse by the the fact that there are a variety of distros-

1. Nothing is googleable. People have to google how to do things like adjust the layout of external monitors, and it's significantly harder to do that on linux.

2. There are a lot of different ways to install applications, and different options are available depending on which distro or application you're targeting

anon7000•2h ago
1. What? It works nearly the same way as Mac or windows? Just a section in the settings app

2. Most distros have an App Store that’s easy to find these days. Works great for non-cli tools

jitl•25m ago
Distro app stores work fine for things in the distro app store, at whatever version the distro provides.

It's like 900x easier to install random software you find about online on a Mac (there's zip containing the .app directory, done), and about 10x easier to install random software on Windows (they give you a .exe you double click, click next a few times, done). Versus Linux where you look at a list of different file types, consider the differences between a .deb, .rpm, figure out if it should come from Flathub, deal with enabling unverified Flathub packages, possibly disable a Flathub package from your distro that sucks and overrides the maintainer's package, etc. See things like https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1htu87i/it_to...

Frenchgeek•3h ago
I've been mainly on Linux for 20 years now (damn already?), what started as a cheap computer with second-hand parts with a more powerful windows machine mostly for games is now a powerful machine in its own rights with an outdated windows one gathering dust right beside it... It's not perfect, but I don't have to spend half an hour removing everything useless I can. (Or have Microsoft assume I have nothing better to do than watch a full presentation on how edgy their new browser is. I'm not going to forgive that one.)
p_ing•3h ago
Repeatedly posted over the past two months:

https://hn.algolia.com/?q=https%3A%2F%2Fendof10.org%2F

xnx•2h ago
I will share this ChromeOS Flex link every chance since I was delighted how easy it was to install: https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529

I only wish the process/instructions were a little more friendly for normies.

bxparks•2h ago
It's great in theory.

In practice, it may not work properly even on their "supported" models. For example, sound does not work on my Dell E7270. Secondly, you must be willing use the Chrome browser. I will not because Chrome no longer has the option to always show the scrollbars. I am convinced that modern UX/UI designers hate their users.

bearjaws•2h ago
I just wish anti-cheat would work on Linux, Windows has become an absolute mess, the search is barely usable now, everything has ads and product placement.
omnimus•2h ago
Which in particular? Many online games run fine.
evanextreme•2h ago
areweanticheatyet.com has a good list
imhoguy•2h ago
Roblox doesn't work under Linux. There are some workarounds with Wine but they stop working pretty quickly.
Aeolun•1h ago
Sober has more or less consistently worked for me. Except for a short time during some special Roblox event.
charcircuit•2h ago
Linux distros could work to create an API for anticheat to use that could verify their program's integrity, then work to have various anticheat to integrate it. This would avoid the issue of Linux not having a stable ABI for kernel drivers. For example Vanguard anticheat doesn't need to be a kernel driver since macos has good enough protection. If Linux could become competitive on security they wouldn't need kernel mode anticheat either.

I'm not holding my breath for this to happen though.

p_ing•2h ago
Apple doesn't allow kext without the end user jumping through hoops, hence no kext. Riot doesn't really have much of a choice in what direction they take.

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/securely-extending-...

But with Linux being open, they certainly would produce a loadable module if there was enough install base to justify it.

charcircuit•2h ago
>Riot doesn't really have much of a choice

True, but the main point of a kernel mode anticheat is the ability to verify that the OS and game isn't being tampered with. If the OS has that capability already built in, then the needed for a kernel mode anticheat diminishes.

>they certainly would produce a loadable module if there was enough install base to justify it

It's not realistic for there to be such an install base to support such complexity compared to having them implement a simple API into their game and server.

zamadatix•1h ago
The only value kernel mode anticheat manages to bring on Windows is that it puts up a significant work barrier to both modifying the kernel and doing so in a way that doesn't trigger the kernel mode anti-cheat detection. With a kernel made to be easily customized by end users and no kernel mode anti-cheat protection trying to detect such modifications then any verification the kernel could provide would be meaningless.

It's not actually the message from the kernel that provides the value, it's the work needed to fake such a message.

treyd•2h ago
It's not an issue of getting the act together on "security". Fairly consistently Linux desktop OSes have a better security story than Windows desktops due to better software supply chain integrity.

The issue is that Windows is designed to be able to protect the will of proprietary software publishers against the will of users that want to assert control over the software running on their computer. It's very similar to the story with DRM.

Linux desktop OSes will never put in place the measures to make a Vanguard-like system work, because it's just unethical for a bunch of reasons, the most basic of which being that it's a violation of freedoms 0 and 1.

charcircuit•1h ago
>Linux desktop OSes have a better security story than Windows desktops due to better software supply chain integrity.

This isn't true. And supply chain wise just look at the xz backdoor. A random person was able to compromise the supply chain of many Linux distros. Security also is not just supply chain integrity.

>Windows is designed to be able to protect the will of proprietary software publishers against the will of users

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Just because Micrsoft cares about developers, it doesn't mean they don't care about users.

>that it's a violation of freedoms 0 and 1

It's not. Freedom 0 and 1 does not give you the freedom to cheat against other players without being banned. You can be free to modify the game client, but you aren't entitled to play with others using it.

treyd•1h ago
> A random person was able to compromise the supply chain of many Linux distros.

The xz backdoor was successfully caught before it landed in mainstream release branches, because it's free software.

But broadening the scope a bit, the norms of using package managers as opposed to the norm on Windows of "download this .exe" is a much stronger security posture overall.

I am aware the Windows Store exists, it's not widely used enough to make exes a marginal distribution pathway. I am aware curl | bash exists, it's more common than it should be, but even in those cases the source is visible and auditable, and that's very uncommon for non-technical users to ever do (unlike downloading random exes).

> Freedom 0 and 1 does not give you the freedom to cheat against other players without being banned.

That's a strawman, I never claimed you should have the right to cheat against other players.

> You can be free to modify the game client, but you aren't entitled to play with others using it.

And that's the issue, Windows has functionality to impede your ability to run the software as you see fit and modify it to your needs. Perhaps you want to run your own server, with different moderation policies.

charcircuit•1h ago
>The xz backdoor was successfully caught before it landed in mainstream release branches

What? It literally got included with several distros. It wasn't caught before it shipped to end users. Just because it got caught before slower to update distros got it, that doesn't mean it is okay. It reveals how low the barrier is for an anonymous person to get code into the OS.

>I never claimed you should have the right to cheat against other players.

Attestation doesn't take away your ability to modify and run software which means that you still have freedom 0 and 1. It just means that you can not prove to a remote server that you bare running unmodified software. To me you were implying that the server being able to kick people who modified the client to cheat was violating their freedom.

>Perhaps you want to run your own server, with different moderation policies.

Nothing would stop you from running your own server like that.

TheBicPen•1h ago
> You can be free to modify the game client, but you aren't entitled to play with others using it.

For a multiplayer game, I'd argue that playing with others (even if you're restricted to private servers, not that most games support that anymore..) is running the software. Being able to use a piece of software for its intended purpose is more relevant than a literal reading "you are allowed to exec the binary and nothing more"

ok123456•2h ago
Anticheat is always a rootkit by another name. Don't buy software that has rootkits or support it. They are antithetical to secure computing.
mystified5016•2h ago
I don't. If Windows suddenly dumps market share, game developers might actually be forced to find a way to solve this problem without installing actual malware into your kernel
balanc•1h ago
If I install it on purpose to guarantee to other players that I am not cheating then it is not malware.
zeta0134•2h ago
There is no reason Linux could not support sensible userland anti-cheat protections. What Linux wrappers mostly refuse to actually support is rootkits and exploits. Linux should not support rootkits and exploits, and frankly neither should Windows, but I suppose Microsoft doesn't care all that much about security in a games context.

Linux's inability to run specific anti-cheat solutions is a vendor support issue on the anti-cheat maker's part, because they don't care about your security, and they've managed to convince game developers that this practice is acceptable. It's not. Vote with your wallet.

runjake•2h ago
Some anticheats work on Linux, including Easy Anticheat. Which ones are you still having problems with?
eloisant•1h ago
Anti-cheat themselves are not the problem, developers who decide not to block Windows even when the anti-cheat would work is.

Fortnite uses EAC which does work on Linux, only they decide to block it.

everdrive•1h ago
Kernel-level anti-cheat is quite bad, and I just wish it would be abandoned altogether rather than extended to Linux. This wasn't a problem when we had private servers rather than random matchmaking.
bee_rider•1h ago
If there’s really a market for linux distros that have been pre-infected by rootkits, it seems one of the major game studios could provide it.

Of course the well known gaming company that releases a distro is Valve. But, rootkits don’t seem like they fit their particular ethos (they are well known for their less annoying DRM scheme, right?). TBH, it seems like a rare opportunity to break the hold they have on the “game store” concept.

prophesi•1h ago
It's not terrible these days, especially with the advent of the Steam Deck. If you're not playing flavor-of-the-month live service games, then I've found that I rarely run into games where DRM/anti-cheat is the issue. A quick glance at protondb will let you know if a game runs fine on linux or not.
Spivak•2h ago
I like it, I think it's a good way to encourage people who otherwise may have not given the linux desktop a chance. I think one of the big hurdles he's going to be getting new users used to the command line. Because I know there's lots of discussion about like how everything should be done with the GUI but when you need help or get support with Linux it's most often going to take the form of a command that you can copy and paste into your terminal and will do what you want. You don't have to have guides with 50 screenshots of what settings to tweak. It's just a line or two of text.

In a way I kind of wish this was how more windows support was handled just because PowerShell is so uhh... powerful.

It might be that Linux is less capable for your use case, but people seem to be generally content with ChromeOS and I think that the standard Fedora desktop install is more capable than that so I think the market exists.

etbebl•2h ago
This is awesome. I'd be interested in helping if I could find some extra time.

At the same time, we still have a major problem at work if Microsoft goes through with this. I work in a research lab with 10s of 1000s of dollars worth of Windows 10 workstations that cannot be upgraded. We use Windows remote desktop and plenty of other software that is Windows only. The hardware is still pretty new and capable. With NIH cuts the last thing we need now is to have to spend money and lots of time to replace all that for no good reason.

p_ing•2h ago
This isn't an "if". And this shouldn't be shocking to anyone as Microsoft has EOL'ed all of it's previous OSes with a deadline.

You can buy extended support for orgs like yours that require it - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/extended...

anonymars•1h ago
Has Microsoft ever EOLed an OS that was

1. in higher use than its successors

2. only had one possible successor

3. the successor did not support hardware in use at the time

?

I'm sure it won't stop them, as you say, but really Microsoft, as someone who used to be a (relatively rare at the time) defender of yours, get fucked. The Raymond Chen camp is truly dead (https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost...)

wat10000•1h ago
That article is an interesting time capsule.

Microsoft (well, the Windows part) is looking more and more like the Apple and Sun in that article. It’s the #2 or #3 user-facing OS these days. The fancy new programming environment happened and most stuff moved there, but it’s JavaScript and the browser rather than C# and .NET. Running old software is becoming a niche and getting more so by the day.

nwellinghoff•16m ago
You could always switch to the ltsc line. Been using ltsc iot and its pretty nice
Hilift•1h ago
> I work in a research lab with 10s of 1000s of dollars worth of Windows 10 workstations that cannot be upgraded.

It's the same situation as last time with Windows 7. You can get three years of extended support for the monthly cumulative update, which I assume is being done given it is fairly inexpensive. The US government gets favorable pricing from Microsoft.

The consumer price for Windows 10 ESU is $30/$60/$90 for the first/second/third year.

em-bee•1h ago
compared to buying a new machine that's actually not that bad. i am not a windows user but spending $180 to extend the life of a fairly new machine by another three years may just be worth it.
cosmicgadget•31m ago
Hopefully this will be popular enough that Steam and Mozilla and others won't drop Win10 support for several more years.
lozf•59m ago
You might consider Windows 10 LTSC IoT edition, it's supported until 2031 iirc.
jonplackett•2h ago
I feel shallow for admitting it, but Linux is just a bit too ugly looking for me. This website has similar lack of attention to design. I guess it’s just an open source thing. You can’t expect so much attention to detail for free.
anon7000•2h ago
There are dozens of OS designs available for Linux. Unlike windows or Mac, you could change most things you think are ugly. There are large parts of windows I think are ugly, for example. Gnome isn’t ugly at all, and actually performs many times better than windows (and sometimes mac). Bad performance is ugly to me.

There are a huge number of examples here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/

jitl•19m ago
Linux is beautiful if you have time, energy, and inclination to make it beautiful. Otherwise, like macOS and Windows, it's just some defaults picked by the Adwaita team 2 years ago when the distro cut its stable release.

I used to use Openbox and compile my own freetype with patches but these days want to spend my time on other things, so I'm just using macOS which has the best out of the box experience with the lowest TODO list when setting up a new computer.

globular-toast•2h ago
Compared to Windows? Really? This? https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-working-major-update-file-...

It's hard for me to imagine anything uglier than the above, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say.

atomicnumber3•2h ago
What desktop env are you using when you try linux? And what non-linux UI are you used to?

I've found Ubuntu's default, and "vanilla gnome shell" to both be pretty cohesive and "modern".

And at the same time, I've never really felt like Windows or Mac actually end up with a more cohesive UI than the various linux desktop envs. For every Qt/GTK theming mismatch, I find a Windows mismatch between apps due to Windows being 12+ generations of design languages and toolkits built on top of each other. (e.g. the 3+ distinct "current" windows control panel looks (11, then 10, then 7, then XP as you keep digging into more and more obscure settings). And apps typically "freeze" at the UI design when they're born. e.g. XP apps still look XP, and so on.

And on Mac, you have the (relatively!) small number of apps actually artfully designed for macos. And then you have all the other ones - electron, java-based, cross-platform Qt apps (which naturally look like Qt apps... just like on KDE/gnome).

There's of course various quibbles over font render, that have existed since time immemorial. I don't think any one platform really wins hands-down here, though it's my understanding that mac typically does the best (as long as none of the non-mac-native apps manage to mess it up).

I really think people just have double-standards at this point, where their "home" platform's flaws are minor, and candidates to replace it must be flawless. (I'll also admit I'm the same, though NATURALLY I think I'm right - i figure if everything is electron and mismatched anyway, I might as well have a free-as-in-freedom operating system under it. Nobody is putting ads in my start menu or advertising xbox game pass to me in my notifications.

ok123456•2h ago
Try KDE Plasma Desktop.
ParetoOptimal•55m ago
https://kde.org/plasma-desktop/
yapyap•2h ago
Honestly the biggest drawback of Linux for new people is IMO the massive amounts of distros, that choice alone between dozens of distros is enough friction to turn someone off the idea
WorldPeas•16m ago
this. This fracture also causes issues due to configuration differences between distros and DEs(for example with a screen capture utility I could download from apt registries, it wouldn't work on kde, only gnome, and it's hard to explain that to a parent). The current skirmishes with packaging mechanisms apt/snap/flatpak and Wayland V. X11 only make this more challenging.
globular-toast•2h ago
Installing Linux is easy. The problem that inevitably arises is moving all of their data across. Things like their browser bookmarks and email inboxes etc. Is there a fool proof way to do this? If they knew where all their data was then they'd be half way to being able to install Linux themselves.
herbst•2h ago
You just login into chrome again
mystified5016•2h ago
All browsers I've used (chromium and Firefox based) store your profile in AppData. This directory can be dropped into a linux install at the appropriate location and you get all your history, plugins, cookies transferred. Completely seamless if you're willing to go through some simple steps.

Then again plenty of modern browsers have some type of profile syncing built in, which does all this for you.

> email inboxes

Please don't use POP3. Your inbox should live on a remote server and simply follow your account. Storing your inbox exclusively on your PC will make you very sad some day.

em-bee•34m ago
Your inbox should live on a remote server

most cheaper/free email providers have a storage limit.

besides, i disagree conceptually. if i want to reduce the risk of my email being read or handed to someone i don't trust, then removing it from the server is a good idea. i can make my own backups.

CactusRocket•1h ago
That's a problem with every computer update right? Not limited to Linux.
TheBicPen•57m ago
With so many things being cloud-based, moving to a new device often just requires logging in. See how easy setting up new devices is on Android and iOS.

On the desktop side, the GNOME online accounts feature is pretty good at getting you most of the way there.

pentagrama•2h ago
This is great, but one UX issue I’ve always seen when trying to get regular Windows users to switch to Linux is the whole USB flash drive process and needing external tools like Rufus.

Take Ubuntu, for example. It’s one of the most popular and recommended distros for non-techy users, but just look at the install process: https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-ubuntu-desktop#1-overvi...

Let’s be honest, I don’t think most people would actually go through with that.

One idea to fix this and get more people to switch would be for Ubuntu to offer a Windows app that handles everything. It could download the ISO in the background, format the flash drive, install Ubuntu in dual boot with Windows by default, and clearly explain each step so users know how to start using Ubuntu or go back to Windows.

artemonster•1h ago
Take a look at a default emacs and how long it has been this way and you can quickly generate 200 plausible theories why everything sucks do much around this ecosystem. Tried 5 times going to u ubuntu in last 15 years. Everytime switched back because it sucked. Spending godless amounts of times googling obsucure problems that apprear out of thin air. No thanks. And with wsl2 I never have to look back
fr4nkr•1h ago
...what does Emacs have to do with any of this? And how does running Linux in a Hyper-V virtual machine magically make it better?
artemonster•13m ago
I thought it was a rather clear and obvious analogy how opinionated nerds hinder mass adoption of good FOSS products because user experience is dogshit.

„Running Linux in VM“ as you have put it, is miles better because it works all the time with 0 friction, driver issues, random freezes, reboots, etc.

jitl•1h ago
Idk why we need separate media anyways. Just resize the existing partition and create a new Linux recovery partition in place, reboot from that to install m. Or just run the whole installer in a VM on windows and then reboot to a completely working Linux system.

EDIT: Beyond skill, just getting the external media is a substantial friction. I haven't used a thumb drive besides for Linux install media in 15 years; I'm good at computers but just finding / buying one of those things is its own roadblock.

wat10000•1h ago
Wubi runs on Windows and installs Ubuntu into a file: https://github.com/hakuna-m/wubiuefi

This sort of thing used to be more common. My first exposure to Linux was before CD-Rs were ubiquitous so there was often no possibility of using external media if you downloaded Linux. Partitioning the drive and installing there was typical.

jitl•38m ago
It's the same model that both Apple and Microsoft use for their OS updates, especially when upgrading from "dark ages" version to the latest version. I just think that most Linux distro providers either don't have the resources or the passion for Windows programming to make & maintain the windows .exe part of the pathway. Wubi is neat, but living out of a file on an existing partition doesn't feel like a pathway to full-time Linux. But if it already exists and is maintained, why hasn't it become the standard approach for all distros?
zamadatix•1h ago
Maybe something like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wubi again.
geek_at•1h ago
Oh wow memory lane. I loved wubi, it was a game changer back then
p1mrx•1h ago
> and needing external tools like Rufus

Ubuntu and Linux Mint are now recommending balenaEtcher, which is easier to use than Rufus.

doublerabbit•1h ago
While so, you have to download a program from somewhere. If I gave this to my mother she would just totally click the wrong link, infect her windows machine and give up.

For the tech, sure but for common people not so.

Why cannot Ubuntu just offer a download media creation tool like Windows does. Surely it's not that hard to couple dd with a batch gui.

i80and•1h ago
Fedora does, fwiw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Media_Writer
weaksauce•1h ago
looks like it’s not just for fedora either. though that is still a little more complicated than an all in one ubuntu/mint/whatever installer. maybe someone should fork it and/or add that to this.
7734128•1h ago
And having to go through this insanity each time is even worse

https://blog.balena.io/did-etcher-break-my-usb-sd-card/

eyegor•1h ago
Is this advice insane or am I missing something

> to fix your busted drive, just nuke the boot sector and send it

> bash

> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/xxx bs=512 count=1 conv=notrunc

invalidptr•1h ago
I never understood why it's so complicated. On Linux, you can make a liveusb as easily as `cat liveusb.iso > /dev/sdX`. I imagine there is a powershell equivalent. There is a risk of writing to the wrong drive, so some kind of utility is needed. But the actual write is trivial. Why not make a win32 executable with the iso embedded so users only need to download one thing and then run it to write the USB media?
badsectoracula•1h ago
IIRC Rufus can actually download the necessary ISOs so it isn't THAT complicated.

On the other hand, if someone finds that part too complicated to follow perhaps they may not be able to install Linux - or Windows for that matter - by themselves and come across other issues down the line. Ultimately replacing your OS with another one does require some minimum level of technical knowledge that you either need to have or be fine with learning during the process.

mindslight•1h ago
Regular Windows users are also not going to reinstall Windows. I'd say this page does the right thing putting the "Find someone to help you" as the first option. Most people want something that just works, and it's a great value proposition to say "I'll take your old computer and turn it into a new device that works better".

The biggest sticking point is the fear of losing what they do have, but we're at the point where even their previous generation computer could be made to run Linux.

jitl•32m ago
Re-installing Windows is trivial these days. You just click the item in the Start menu, it does some work, then reboots to the existing recover partition to finish up, restores your account, and you drop back to windows desktop after logging in again. If you have OneDrive enabled, you still see all your files.
mindslight•22m ago
Does that actually completely blow away and reformat the filesystem? Meaning if you only have local files, they're then gone? From clicking an item on the Start menu?

I guess I'm not surprised how frequently "reinstall Windows" is offered as a solution, that there is now some lighter version of that. But really I was talking about obtaining/creating installation media and reinstalling from scratch.

tmtvl•57m ago
Once when I was at FOSDEM I was checking out the OpenSUSE stand and one of the people at the stand gave me an OpenSUSE Leap DVD. Was pretty neat, though nowadays unfortunately many computers no longer have a DVD drive.
gadders•1h ago
"At this point you will overwrite all data on the computer, so have a back up of the files you want to keep."

Can't help thinking that should be in a bigger font. It's a shame there doesn't seem to be a away to install Linux and keep your Documents directory at least. Is that due to file systems?

[Yes, yes, backup to memory stick/external drive but I'm talking about for your average person on the street]

fuzzy2•1h ago
This is entirely possible in many ways. You could keep the NTFS partition, shrink it, eventually copy data off of it, …

So long as enough contiguous space is available to install the desired Linux distro.

MyOutfitIsVague•1h ago
Linux has to install somewhere, and it needs a filesystem that supports POSIX permissions, so you need a partition formatted for it. If NTFS is taking up the entire drive and can't be shrunk, where does Linux install?

You can't do this all on the same drive, because you need a place to copy the documents directory to. You need to delete the NTFS partition to create the place to copy the files to, but by the time you've done that, the Documents are inaccessible. You could do it in memory, feasibly, if you create a RAMdisk and are lucky enough to have enough memory for all your documents, but then you're still gambling on not running out of memory during the install.

So it is possible to copy the documents on the same device, and it's possible to even automate the process, but it's not possible to do it reliably or safely, and the reliability is so low that it's not worth even offering the possibility. If somebody has a handful of gigabytes of documents, it's already a nonstarter. To be safe you'd demand the user make a backup onto another device anyway, in which case they might as well do that and then copy the files into a fresh install themselves

TheBicPen•59m ago
I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to 1) check the size of the documents directory and the existing NTFS partition on windows and 2) if the existing partition is < (1/2 the disk size - the size of the Linux installation), give the user the option to shrink the partition and copy the relevant files over to the new /home. This is assuming the tool is going to install a dual-boot configuration anyway, at which point this isn't significantly more work. If the idea is to completely overwrite the existing installation then this would make the process significantly more complicated. But I imagine that for a tool intended for less-technical users, dual-boot installation is the way to go to give them assurance that their existing setup will continue to work.
MyOutfitIsVague•43m ago
For a dual boot configuration, you might as well not copy anything over. You'd be better off mounting the Windows partition in the Linux install. There's not a great reason to dual-boot for non-technical users, though. The point is to end up on a system that works for them, not to have one that works for them and a derelict system that they don't know how to remove, and that can destroy their dual-boot setup if MS decides to push an update that overwrites the boot loader, leaving them unable to access the Linux install.

It's not just shrinking and copying over to the new `/home` because of the locality of the data. If your NTFS partition is taking the entirety of the disk (minus EFI and system partitions), shrinking it will then make it take up the first X% of the disk. Then you have to make the linux installation on the last (100-X)% of the disk, copy the files over, and then when you delete the NTFS partition, your Linux filesystem is on the last half of the disk with a big blank unallocated area on the beginning. BTRFS or LVM2 could help a little bit there, but that's far from ideal in any case.

Probably the best approach would be to shrink NTFS, create a new partition at the end of at least the right size, copy the files over, then wipe the NTFS partition, install Linux as the first partition (after system/EFI and such), then copy the files into the user's home, and then remove the documents partition. That's still not super reliable, though. You are at the mercy of your documents sizes, filesystem fragmentation (remember, even if your filesystem is mostly empty, you might not be able to shrink if fragmentation is in a bad place. You could defrag, but then the install time can balloon up many hours for the defrag process alone, just to shrink a filesystem that you're going to delete anyway), how big the Linux install will end up being, and many other factors. You'd have a lot of people who simply can't copy their documents over on install who will be simply SOL. I can't think of a situation where this kind of thing wouldn't be better served by just telling the user to backup their documents to a USB drive and move them back afterward, because many people are going to have to do that anyway.

wat10000•24m ago
There’s no technical reason it can’t copy all your documents to the new system, or partition your drive to allow dual-booting with your documents accessible from both OSes, and allow you to remove the Windows partition once you’re comfortable doing so. If the installers don’t have this option, they certainly should.
Jaxan•43m ago
I tried installing Ubuntu on my surface pro 4. But the support for touch and stylus is bad. Also it didn’t properly shut down and emptied the battery that way.

It’s still a great device, it just sucks I’m stuck with windows (10).

cosmicgadget•37m ago
"Just use Linux." Great solution. Except I already have a Linux boot. Still need a Windows boot.
npteljes•32m ago
I don't think any amount of grassroots anything will make the year of the Linux desktop happen. What could work is what Valve does: providing a valuable device with Linux preinstalled. Microsoft's backdoor bundle won't be defeated from below.