> Every organization and industry has watering holes where the whiners hang out. The cynical. The jaded.

I wish. I've worked for startups where I would've killed to have such a space, where people actually felt free to criticize the way things were going.

Toxic positivity is a thing too.

There is some truth to avoiding whiney echo chambers. But these watering holes also give insights into the dirty.

E.g. Amazon, Meta etc. have terrible work cultures. Their terribleness got exposed via whiney digital watering holes, at scale. This is useful information for anyone considering jobs at these places. Without these insights, you wouldn't know that you are merely being hired to be fired.

Avoid whiney watering holes but after collecting required information.

I think these watering holes are just called "the IT department". The toxic BOFH vibe should've never caught on.

</whiny rant>

learned this the hard way. got stuck with people in a big company that i thought were "cool" but literally hated tech (this included engineers in the group) and the company which they worked for. Constant complaints, everything bad, etc. I joined a much better company after and made friends with really curious/smart people--my own level of care, curiosity and side projects catapulted. I am a completely different person. Complaining is fun, and super fucking easy. Actually doing something about it is a different beast and I want to be friends with the people that understand the world isn't perfect and want to actively make it better by doing rather than incessantly whining and throwing their hands up in the air.