As I near the eol of my daily driver, I'm considering a Fairphone, but what it's missing is a folding card holder, like the Satechi wallet stand for iPhone. Putting the phone in horizontal mode on a table and using a bt keyboard is how I do a lot of my writing
The makers of GrapheneOS have indicated that Fairphone doesn't meet their security requirements:
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114737139118874189
I think there are some fundamental flaws with how Fairphone operates, plus they don't seem to release security updates promptly.
Case in point: re-lockable bootloader requirement. Not everyone is a target for an evil maid types of physical attacks or possible state actor pressure. But when you actually need it, it's not negotiable.
GrapheneOS takes security very seriously. Your average desktop PC or laptop won't come close to their requirements. That makes GrapheneOS an excellent OS for people who want the security of iOS without the many downsides of Apple. Their patches reduce usability but make the phone more secure than Google's own, official Android build.
However, if you've ever used a Windows (or Linux) laptop, you've already experienced the kind of insecurity that GrapheneOS tries to prevent. No hardware encryption accelerators outside of the CPU, rarely any patches that roll out within a weak of announcement, firmware protection being basically nonexistent, no A/B updates, almost certainly no verified boot (even with Secure Boot enabled), and usually no firmware USB lockdown.
They did announce they're going to do daily linux patches though, so that's atleast something https://www.phoronix.com/news/Fairphone-6-Linux
It would be good if Fairphone could make a product that meets GrapheneOS requirements, but they measure the tradeoffs between security, usability, and cost (to do hardware and software things) differently. Each team is free to make the choices they deem fit. If only the intersection of GrapheneOS and Fairphone users were bigger, market forces would push them towards a common vision.
There's is no bad blood here, it's merely that fairphone doesn't meet the required standards for them to be a target the graphene team is interested in supporting offically. There's nothing preventing anyone from porting it themselves and nothing preventing fairphone from porting an inferior version of grapheneos to their phoens.
The Reason GrapheneOS isn't made for Fairphones Officially is that Fairphones lack a lot of base requirements for official support:
https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices
There's nothing preventing anyone from making a 3rd Party port of GrapheneOS to Fairphones, it just seems no one does.
The "Complete monthly Android Security Bulletin patches without any regular delays longer than a week for device support code (firmware, drivers and HALs)" part isn't even true for Pixels.
I suspect it's the features of the titan m2 security chip. It's a pretty cool piece engineering [0].
[0] https://www.androidauthority.com/titan-m2-google-3261547/
Doesn't the ASB get published at the same time as pixel updates? So by definition it's up to date.
I did, for instance, find a case where Google Project Zero published a blog post on a vulnerability while their Pixel 6 was still four days away from the first updates: https://9to5google.com/2023/03/20/pixel-6-march-2023-update/
I myself regularly find my Pixel only noticing updates half a month later unless I manually check while my Samsung tablet notifies me immediately once my quarterly update is available. It's quite annoying to have to check for updates manually every week, but I suppose updates are technically available.
However you could also install eOS yourself instead of course, if you prefer.
I wish there is compact android phone with open bootloadet option.
If the latter, do you have a source or some research to point to?
If the former, why did you choose to present a personal preference as a common truth?
USB-C 2.0 (OTG capable) can be used to connect USB Sticks/SD-Cards/Audio Amplifier/Network-adapters directly
I was really looking forward to use this with a pair of display glasses, like the XREAL One Pro, but this seems like the Fairphone 6 might not support display output? That's sad. Especially since the Fairphone 5 had this in their tech specs:
USB-C 3.0 (OTG capable) can be used to connect USB Sticks/SD-Cards/display (also Android™ desktop mode)/Camera/Audio Amplifier/Network-adapters directly
But maybe it was not used enough?
Likely not used enough, yet. It would be premature to drop support this quick, as Google seems to just now move Android in the direction (DEX by Samsung is the same thing, but it's Samsung specific).
At the same time, only last year I saw a device in which I'd "dock" my phone (the Nexdock looked reasonably priced) and having both a phone and the steam deck with desktop mode would make such a device more useful.
I know you're talking strictly from the perspective of display glasses, but convergence is the main category under which I'd classify this feature.
Based on what I had read yesterday, when I still hoped that it will have the same USB 3.0/DisplayPort like Fairphone 5, I was considering very seriously to upgrade my rather old ASUS smartphone to a Fairphone 6.
However, if it lacks USB 3.0/DisplayPort, which can be acceptable for a $200 smartphone, but never for a $600 smartphone, then Fairphone 6 is completely disqualified from my point of view.
Unfortunately, only some Chinese smartphones, e.g. from Motorola, offer USB 3.0/DisplayPort in smartphones with decent price/performance ratios and up-to-date Qualcomm SoCs, starting as low as $400.
Which is to say, buying the previous Fairphone is a perfectly sensible thing to do.
Except I don't want to put up with the bs that Apple does to its customers, otherwise I'd buy an iPhone. It's not outrageous to expect USB 3.0, a 15 year old standard, on a 600 Euro phone with modern internals in 2025 that users are expected to keep for a long time without upgrading.
>It's just fine.
Just because it's fine for you doesn't mean it's fine for others. For other's that's the dealbreaker. Fairphone isn't a mainstream brand, it's a niche brand which tends to draw enthusiasts (often tech workers, hackers, tinkerers, etc), and enthusiasts are more picky and expect more features than your regular Apple and Samsung "muggles".
People buy niche phone brands not because they're the most performant or sexy, but because they still provide the niche features that Apple and Samsung gave up on, like SD cards, headphone jacks, removable batteries, etc.
OnePlus had USB 3.0 and DisplayPort outputs on 500 Euro phones all the way in 2019, and that feature was a lifesaver when my laptop suddenly died. There's no excuse now for this phone.
As a product manager, if I had a dime for every time someone insisted with stridency bordering on rudeness that some fringe feature was absolutely critical to my product’s success, despite data showing no market demand even from these overconfident “experts”… I would have a lot of dimes.
Like I said, I don't care what process they did to justify that decision internally, all I said is I'm not buying it since for me it's a deal breaker, but since their competitors ship this feature my money is ging to them. Simples. Free market baby.
If they think it's gonna sell well regardless, then power to them and I wish them well, but how do you know their decision is the right one and my opinion is the wrong one? I guess only time will tell.
But the majority of mainstream users who don't care about those features tend to buy Apple and Samsung anyway, not niche brands they never heard of. So then how do they expect to sway mainstream customers away as you suggest without differentiating features?
Now with the EU repairability laws and recent product developments, changing the display or battery on a Samsung or IPhone isn't the nightmare it once was, so repairability isn't such a huge differentiator feature for Fairphone as it was 5+ years ago, so they need to offer more to stand out, not less. The goalposts have moved, in favor of the consumer.
>As a product manager [...] that some fringe feature was absolutely critical to my product’s success
How niche or mass market was your product? If you have a niche product then fringe features could be important, otherwise your customers might prefer going with your tried and true IBMs since nobody ever got fired for that.
Sufficiently technical users might prefer a used flagship phone that supports custom ROMs, maybe some market segmentation like that is in play here. Case in point, the missing headphone jack, and that the tech specs have never been impressive.
It would also explain why in their forum repairability was called a non-goal from a big user group, only the fair production aspect were relevant.
Or would there be other limitations, like compatibility with a processor/chip…?
However I also find some of the supporters of consumer friendliness unbearable (e.g. Framework or Thinkpad fans).
I get that tribalism is present in many layers of our society and culture (politics, sports, music), but I always found it weirder when people do it for products. The only goal of a company is to maximize their profits, why someone becomes a die hard supporter of them is beyond me.
To summarize, I just wish people would put less emphasis on consumer practices. Buy a product you like and is beneficial for you, but don’t judge others for their choices.
Overall this is effectively true, but it is not a law of the universe or anything.
Why can't a collection of people have ideals, want to support and realize those ideals through action, and also find a way to financially support themselves and even profit by pursuing those ideals?
The hypothesis you've put forth is that the group that founded Framework were sitting around thinking about the best way they could invest money to make money, and the best option they could come up with was to make modular laptops. What has their return on investment been thus far, and does it clearly and readily beat all other options they had for investing?
I agree with a live and let live view of purchasing decisions, and I agree that tribalism about companies is weird, but at the end of the day it’s far too reductive to say all companies prioritize profits equally.
A large amount of energy is wasted on "infighting" where people spend significant effort on attacking projects that, seen from a distance, are actually allies¹.
Or where people dismiss the entire project because it's not 100 aligned with their view of perfection².
Or, indeed, where people who don't even use or want to use a project, spend significant effort to discredit this project.
¹ an example is the enormous amount of effort and campaigning within the "mastodon" community against projects like bluesky or nostr. But also gnome vs kde, Ubuntu vs Redhat, Etc
² an example is Opensource software being discredited because they use GitHub, or host on AWS. It's Patagonia being discredited because they use plastic. Or Fairtrade coffee being dismissed because it transports coffee with trucks and ships burning oil.
People seem to flock to smaller phone companies and demand they fill in their one feature. Whether it's USB-OTG display functionality, headphone jack, slider to kill all connections, etc, everybody is convinced their one feature is holding this phone company back, just because they want this one feature.
It's just disappointing. I'm just happy with my long-lasting repairable phone.
Framework/Oura/Whoop/Garmin/Fairphone etc etc it's all the same.
Yes, the closed-source camera app that does not work on Lineage OS and other alternative firmwares has a 50MP switch, however the quality of the 50MP photo is as poor if not worse than the processed 13MP photo...
Kind of defeats the purpose, no?
It still works very well with CalyxOS so the rational thing to do is to keep using it.
My only issue with my FP3 is that I have to tighten all the screws from time to time otherwise whenever the screen displays too many green pixels the touchscreen will start to trigger at random.
[0] https://www.fairphone.com/en/2024/01/24/have-you-seen-the-sc...
[1] https://www.fairphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Fairpho...
I've got a Fairphone 4 and the most useful thing about it is the replaceable battery. I can't count the number of times an extra battery in my backpack has saved me.
Sure, maybe it's not that big of a deal to bring a screwdriver with me as well. But I just know I'm going to lose those tiny screws and changing the battery at the back of a taxi goes out the window.
Popped it back in and booted and went on my way.
raffael_de•5h ago
DocTomoe•5h ago
Now Apple has removed that ... and I am not happy. Yes, the functionality is theoretically available by configuring the 'smart button'. But I don't physically see the state of the device without picking it up.
lynx97•5h ago
_Algernon_•4h ago
lynx97•4h ago
ChrisRR•4h ago
_Algernon_•4h ago
lynx97•4h ago
_Algernon_•3h ago
At least in the US geofencing warrants are a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geofence_warrant
It is prudent to protect oneself against that.
jeroenhd•3h ago
For protests, the physical switch is an attempt to find a technical solution to a societal problem, which rarely works out. You may as well keep your (Android) phone in your pocket (but turned off, though that won't help with iOS' Find My network).
spankibalt•3h ago
That might be true on planet Ogo, but not on planet Earth.
> "For protests, the physical switch is an attempt to find a technical solution to a societal problem, which rarely works out."
Another utterly absurd statement. Killswitches are, amongst other places and situations, useful on the battlefield (and therefore urban "battlefield", e. g. protests). And turning a practical solution to tactical and operational problems into a discussion about the inapplicability of such solutions to cure the "ills of society" at large is just... bizarre.
craftkiller•3h ago
2. That advice sounds more reasonable if you assume a reasonable government that is only interested in tracking people who are torching cars. Governments have retaliated against political dissidents in the past who have committed no crimes.
lynx97•26m ago
craftkiller•5m ago
komali2•3h ago
I wear a helmet and leather when I ride my motorcycle. Obviously, it'd be safer to never ride the motorcycle. But, I want to the ride the motorcycle, so, if I'm going to do it, it makes sense to mitigate my risk on it.
If people want to go to protests, they should, however a killswitch isn't good enough imo - you should leave your phone at home so the cops don't steal it from you, force you to unlock it with your fingerprint or faceID (a valid legal order in the USA), and then hunt through the contents to hit you with some bogus charge.
jeroenhd•3h ago
Governments and carriers retaining months of location history data is a risk. If the Russians invade and get a hold of that data, a lot of people suddenly become at risk, for no good reason other than it being around "just in case".
We've seen it happen here in the Netherlands when the nazis came in and happily browsed through the city archives, which contained a details count of how many people of what religion lived in each neighbourhood.
I have nothing to fear from the current government, but with the rise in ultraconservative, anti-intellectual, extreme right wing politicians across the globe, a lot of people may not want to be recorded having been to things that are perfectly safe today.
All of that said, as long as you don't have an iPhone, you can just turn your phone off. It'll power down the CPU. If you don't believe the manufacturer, then you'll have to measure the voltage on the PCB traces yourself, but so should you when you buy phones with a physical off switch.
twiss•4h ago
Turning off connectivity doesn't help as much to guarantee your privacy as the phone could theoretically be recording and then upload the recording later, when you turn it back on (if it was thoroughly compromised, which admittedly seems unlikely, but nevertheless it would be nice to have some guarantee that it's impossible).
mkayokay•4h ago
twiss•4h ago
Then once I'm there, what do I do with the phone? Ask to put it in a separate room and hope that the microphone isn't powerful enough to pick up our conversation?
I could turn it off entirely, but what if someone needs to call me for an emergency?
For me, as a user, the easiest solution would be to have a killswitch. I understand that building it would be more work, of course :)
mkayokay•2h ago
Yes, that's what I had to do for meetings that the organizer thought were important enough. Also, in very sensitive areas special rooms with anti-eavesdropping gear are common [1].
> I could turn it off entirely, but what if someone needs to call me for an emergency?
But you would also not be reachable if the killswitch is active ;)
Don't get me wrong, I think a killswitch can make a lot of sense for highly sensitive areas (R&D, politics, military, ...), but I don't think Fairphone 6 are the devices that target this demographic and thus should not include one. Furthermore, current "offline" measure seem to mitigate the problem okay enough to not need such a killswitch - else we would already have phones with such features. And lastly, killswitches can only mitigate parts of the features modern spyware [2] implements and does not protect from simple human-based errors like the United States government group chat leaks [3].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_inform... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_government_group...
twiss•2h ago
I would be, because I asked for a killswitch for the microphone and cameras, not a killswitch for connectivity like the original comment.
If I get a call while the killswitch is active, I can stop the sensitive conversation, turn on the microphone, and answer the call.
spankibalt•4h ago
Wireless-only, data-harvesting slabs are good enough for ME, so they oughta be good enough FOR EVERYONE!
raffael_de•2h ago
mkayokay•4h ago
What a lot of people talk about is a headphone jack. But even that niche has been filled by USB-C adapters for people that really want them and not only talk nostalgic about it.
onli•3h ago
The demand for a headphone jack is fueled by functionality and sustainability concerns, not nostalgia - can't, too recent a change and current devices do have the port.
brookst•1h ago
The one upside is convenience of not having a separate dongle, which is pretty well offset by the significant increase in phone size needed to accommodate the jack.
onli•6m ago
For the external DAC, you have to balance the "you could buy that once" against all the consumers that are pushed by the omission of the headphone jack to buy throwaway head- and earphones with glued in batteries. There is no chance in hell that the waste produced of both paths is in favour of the jackless phones.
IlikeKitties•4h ago
I doubt they'd even get the RND cost for that change back, this is a feature no one cares about except a very very small minority within a small minority. I'm a hardcare FOSS only user and only use grapheneos/fedora linux on my devices for privacy and security reasons and even I am not remotely concerned about hardware switches when i can just powerdown the wifi/Gps/wwan connection.
fergie•2h ago
At the moment iPhones seem to drain power even when they are "off" which makes me suspect that they aren't, in fact, actually fully powered off. There have been a few occasions when I have been without a charger for one reason or another, and would like to be able to fully power off my phone in order to save battery.
ChrisRR•4h ago
I think you overestimate the appeal of such a feature
mavhc•4h ago
jstummbillig•4h ago
GuB-42•1h ago
They probably don't want to position themselves against security-focused phones as they would likely be compared unfavorably with them. That is unless they also do whatever it takes to enter that market, for example by supporting a security-focused OS like GrapheneOS.
They could have kept the headphone jack though, but I guess they wanted to sell their earbuds (with replaceable batteries! which is at least a good point).