Those are basically all in yellow on that map.
So I guess the positive ones are the "democratic socialist" countries?
That said, those are two micro states, so I’m not sure how applicable they are to larger countries. Switzerland isn’t huge but it also isn’t tiny.
Microstates seem to do great, I also missed Monaco with a +7.1, Andorra is between France and Spain with a +4.7
> Social democracy and democratic socialism are related but distinct political ideologies. Social democracy, often associated with the Nordic model, focuses on regulating capitalism to create a strong welfare state and reduce inequality through social programs, while generally supporting a mixed economy with private ownership. Democratic socialism, on the other hand, envisions a more fundamental transformation of the economic system, often including greater public or worker ownership and economic democracy, while also emphasizing democratic principles.
All countries in West Europe implement social democracies. They greatly outperform the US.
Countries in Eastern Europe are still enduring their legacy of communism/democratic socialism, but 30 years ago they experienced a radical swing towards the blend of neoliberalismo professed by the US.
Lastly, you look at data showing how the US greatly underperforms in key quality of life metrics, and the conclusion you opt to extract is cherry-pick those to look down on? That's tragic.
Large portion of americans eat like they have free healthcare.
What shocked me about the US when I went, was how much peptobismol people chugged down. There was not one meal in my 1 week stay there that I could digest without issue.
Sometimes my wife convince me to try American candy/foods that we buy in these "foreign foods stores" locally, because she grew up eating some of them in her country.
And every time we check the contents by reading the nutrition-labels or checking with apps like Yuka, it turns out that the stuff Americans put in the mouth and stomach are filled with stuff that is outright illegal to put in foods here in Europe.
So if I were to guess, it would be related to what is legal to put in foods/consumables.
- Titanium dioxide (E171)
- Potassium bromate
- Azodicarbonamide
- Propylparaben
I'm sure there is more, and there is probably also stuff that is banned in the US but not in Europe.
It sometimes is annyoying though, especially around foods and medicine when something is not yet approved in Europe e.g. It's really hard to get Allulose (sugar alternative with similar properties benefitting baking); As far as I can tell it's not actually "illegal" in Europe, it's just not approved as a food, so no-one risks importing it..
https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-sec...
A lot of Eastern Europe was doing very poorly a generation or two ago, and we know that living through a period of hunger will cause your children to be more likely to gain weight.
Therefore, things like public smoking bans (as we have in the UK) as well as public health campaigns around alcohol consumption and healthy eating become palatable. Regulating harmful foodstuffs becomes more important. The cost of smokers' adverse health was (and still is) enormous, and reducing that burden benefits everyone.
The true issue is secondhand smoke. That for me is what it all is about: preventing unwilling people from being exposed to smoke, full stop.
About as many people die from smoking than from secondhand smoke. Think for a minute how horrifying that is.
This is often mentioned, but it's simply not true. It's not old age itself that costs money, it's the part of your life where you need care and support. This is old age in otherwise healthy people, but smokers don't just drop dead one day, they go through as many if not more years of care and support as everyone else, they just do it younger (which costs in lost productive years too).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cost-of-smoking-t...
There’s been a number of studies on this, and they do seem to suggest that overall smoking saves society money. E.g. here’s one from Finland
That means poorer countries tend to have worse healthcare, and less good outcomes.
It’s much more than money.
https://www.nationhoodlab.org/the-regional-geography-of-u-s-...
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/americans-die-younger-than...
My understanding for Scotland/England it is a question of alcohol/drugs to some degree. I suspect it is similar for the comparison to US.
Obesity is primarily caused by the 1-2000 micro-decisions we make each year about what to eat, when, and how much. A free visit to the doctor now and then is just not going to move the needle much on that one way or another for most people, most of the time. Even if it could we have to ask why a $0 doctor visit would be so much more effective than a $100 doctor visit.
No, the effects you're seeing what Europeans are more fit than Americans on average is coming from somewhere else. I think the real answer is the obvious one: Food here in Europe is simply worse tasting than in the US in general. I've been here for 5 years across twice as many countries; I've never had a pizza here that even matches Little Caesar's back at home, in terms of lighting up my little monkey neurons, to say nothing of Costco. If I ever go back home I will break and get one of the two within a week of reaching the airport.
Capitalism is an optimization process that has optimized the heck out of food reward signal. Your only real options are either to be poor enough that capitalism doesn't care about getting you the 'good stuff' - easier said than done when being poor sucks, and when the good stuff is constantly getting cheaper over time anyway - or you fight back with even harder optimization in the reverse direction. You could argue Europe is some mixture of both compared to the US.
Imagine the government pays for healthcare. The government can pass laws. What is cheaper for gov, to pass laws or to pay for healthcare. Of course they prefer to pass laws which regulate unhealthy stuff and run promotions to get people be healthy. Regular people cannot do this.
All the baby boomer men in my family would be dead if it wasn't for the American health care system.
Even suffering heart attacks, they didn't miss a beat to get back to going out to eat, drinking beer/wine and being massively overweight.
If you go to any restaurant at night it will be packed with fat old people stuffing their face. Most on medications so that they don't have to change their lifestyle.
No country has ever had the BMI of old people that America has right now. It is a wealth curse.
I think the proximal answers for "why" are in the World Health Report, which tells you why people die.https://www.who.int/data/gho/publications/world-health-stati...
Some of those you'd assume are to do with health care in general, but some (alcohol and tobacco consumption) are more like direct causes in and of themselves.
So I expect the picture of future retirees will look very different between countries with growing economies and the ones with declining/stagnating economies.
A clear East vs. West and to a lesser extent North vs. South difference is obvious. In Western Germany, most region with very low life expectancy are those regions that were under strong economic pressure in recent decades (usually former mining areas, such as the Ruhr Area and the Saarland).
Here is a 2020 map of life expectancy: https://www.demogr.mpg.de/media/13419_main.png
And here a 2019 map of household income: https://www.wsi.de/de/einkommen-14582-einkommen-im-regionale...
Differences is smoking might also have an important impact. Here is a 2013 map: https://bilder.deutschlandfunk.de/FI/LE/_f/47/FILE_f4790b165...
This seems to imply an even closer correlation.
Of course, correlation does not imply direct causation. The underlying causalities might be various, complex and different from region to region.
It has always baffled me a bit that Europeans keep making this basic type error, by comparing individual European countries that were relatively cohesive and healthy until recently, to the whole of the USA that suffers from a whole host of benefits of diversity. Europeans simply have no understanding of the real America beyond what they see in movies or hear on Reddit. How could they, most people in America don’t even have a clue what America really is like due to endless barrages of propaganda from childhood on.
The first one doesn't include a few European countries. The second is completely backwards - health generally has been on the way up across the board for decades.
Isn't USA a country? How is a country-by-country comparison "typical Reddit ignorance"?
I'm gonna use my typical Reddit ignorance to guess you are indeed from the USA.
Your access to booze, cigs and healthcare is very different in NM than it is in MA.
This has very little to do with location or genetics and everything to do with education and culture.
Every one of those points is also true in Europe (apart from possibly healthcare), unfortunately. Car dependency and car-centric development is almost everywhere, places like the Netherlands are an outlier. Fast food and ads thereof are also everywhere. Many people smoke. Etc.
I live in a rural village about 5 hours' drive from NYC. There is no public transport here.
If I drive 45 minutes to the nearest city, I can catch a train—but that train will only take me to a few destinations (primarily Albany, NYC, or Boston one way, or Buffalo, Chicago and points west the other way).
Some cities (outside of major metropolitan areas, which do generally have some kind of rail system) have intracity buses, but they tend to be underfunded and dirty.
It's the degree of things. I live in Ireland, in a village of a few thousand people a few km outside the city, what you might call a "suburb" in the US. I don't even have a driver's license. It's rarely an issue and can go about my life by foot. bike, and public transport.
Whatever villages that used to exist in the US have been drowned out by car-centric suburbs that were build around them. The 'village' is now the downtown-ish area of the community that tourists go see.
You are a very unusual person then, as the vast vast majority of people in not urban core Ireland have (and use) a car. I live in a Dublin suburb, and we're one of the few married couples that don't have two cars.
Take the absolute value and the numbers and you get an ok map of how likely someone is to be trying to mislead you if they're comparing all of the US to just this one nation.
You could make a pretty similar map with US states vs US average.
Correlation is a hell of a drug[1].
In 1990, there was no difference in life expectancy between wealthy white Americans and comparably wealthy Europeans (Fig 3 in the first link) Since then a gap has opened up among all levels of income (even the wealthiest white Americans now have lower life expectancy than comparably wealthy Europeans.) The second link looks at the biggest death causes (heart disease and cancer being #1 and #2) and conclude Americans have worse outcomes for both of these conditions.
Basically, Europe continued to improve while America stagnated in life expectancy over this time.
Interestingly, even in 1990, comparably poor Europeans had longer life expectancy than white Americans. So this isn't exactly new, but it seems all of American life expectancy has been stagnating, and wealth can only mitigate this to a certain degree.
_Health2024.png){kind=link}
anovikov•3h ago
lgeorget•3h ago
ben_w•2h ago
Probably loads of other differences too.
pm90•2h ago
CalRobert•2h ago
modo_mario•2h ago
viraptor•2h ago
bboozzoo•2h ago