Positive link between cannabis use and 'Major Adverse Cardiovascular Events'

https://heart.bmj.com/content/early/2025/06/10/heartjnl-2024-325429

41•vixen99•7mo ago

Comments

Neywiny•7mo ago

This could get dicey. I know there are a lot of users out there and I understand the various causes for use. However, for those of us who didn't because of concerns like this, it is a bit vindicating. Addiction is a disease, full sympathy, but please get help if you need it.

cluckindan•7mo ago

Are all cannabis users addicts?

owebmaster•7mo ago

I don't think so, I smoke for the past 20 years and I'm not addicted /s

SkyeCA•7mo ago

According to a lot of people online? Yes, and they're the same type who will tell you an occasional glass of wine with a meal makes you an alcoholic.

chisleu•7mo ago

Speaking as an addict, yes most regular users are. It's not the same kind of addiction (emotional, not physical) but it's still addictive. If you smoke weed every day for a year, and stop, for the first year you stop, your suicide rate is doubled.

code_for_monkey•7mo ago

Isnt it possible that people smoking weed were treating conditions like anxiety or depression and are more likely to commit suicide in the first place? Weed has had a real deficit of actual study and although some people can get a dependency on it I have a hard time qualifying those people as addicts when stopping weed is so much less dangerous and difficult than other substances. Its a complicated topic that requires quite a lot of care when you talk about it, because labelling someone as an addict is a tall order and also weed has been a moral panic for so long.

chisleu•7mo ago

Oh that’s absolutely part of it.

cluckindan•7mo ago

Is it not a bit disingenuous to imply that cannabis causes the suicidality if it is actually the cessation of (self-)treatment that causes it?

chisleu•7mo ago

I don't know brother. I'm not making that claim. I'm repeating it.

cluckindan•7mo ago

That’s generally how misinformation propagates. Hearsay.

chisleu•7mo ago

Yeah except it's not hearsay so much as repeating a credible source.

_Algernon_•7mo ago

Citation needed

chisleu•7mo ago

Heard it from the doctor on mtv. Remember that show?

_Algernon_•7mo ago

chisleu•7mo ago

Dr Drew and Adam Corola had a show on MTV where they discussed it at length.

cluckindan•7mo ago

LoveLine?

”Carolla co-hosted the syndicated radio call-in program Loveline with Drew Pinsky from 1995 to 2005 as well as the show's television incarnation on MTV from 1996 to 2000.”

Pinsky is seemingly a medical doctor specializing in addiction treatment. Just saying that he has a financial incentive to present hyperbole, not to mention a dramatic one (anything for more content in his rehab TV shows)

haswell•7mo ago

People don’t take the withdrawal potential seriously.

I’ve had a complex relationship with cannabis over the years, and one of the things that I didn’t understand before getting stuck in a daily habit of heavy use for a period of time is how hard it can be on your body to just stop.

I had major upset stomach and food aversion for a few weeks to the point that I lost 10 pounds, major sleep issues, a major spike in depressive symptoms (not just baseline depression, because I eventually got back to baseline), etc.

chisleu•7mo ago

Same. After enough use, I just kind of forgot how to have fun without it. Sleep issues are the worst.

cluckindan•7mo ago

Anecdotes are not helpful here. Did you commonly have an upset stomach and food aversion before?

haswell•7mo ago

No, upset stomach and food aversion were not common for me before. I've gone through the quitting process several times over the years, and the experience was consistent each time. I've also run experiments while quitting like: what happens to the food aversion and stomach issues if I use some cannabis? When in the middle of withdrawal, it was like flipping a switch that allowed me to eat again.

These symptoms are well known among the cannabis community, and there is increasing awareness in the medical community [0] especially for people who experience the most extreme forms like CHS [1], which has become increasingly common with more people using extremely high % THC products.

If you're curious about this subject, I'd highly recommend reading the thousands of 1st hand accounts of the quitting process on a subreddit like /r/petioles or /r/leaves.

It's extremely common for people to be skeptical of cannabis addiction/withdrawal [2], and I'm pretty certain this is an overcorrection after the decades of demonization and straight-up lies about cannabis. This is understandable, but the pendulum is gradually swinging back as more people experience difficulties quitting.

I'm still in favor of legal cannabis, but the addiction potential is very real and worth highlighting. Part of the issue currently is that research is decades behind at this point due to the federal scheduling of the drug, and much of the research we do have was conducted with old low-THC strains. Hopefully we'll get better studies that highlight the things many heavy users already know 1st hand.

- [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9110555/

- [1] https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21665-cannabi...

- [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/07/31/marijuana-a...

cluckindan•7mo ago

That effect could be simply due to pre-existing pathology such as anxiety, depression or even PTSD, not necessarily due to cannabis. Do you have a source for those statistics?

owebmaster•7mo ago

Some of us are smoking for the past 20, 30, 40 years without cardiovascular issues tho. And I have met many old guys and ladies smoking weed in their 60, 70s doing fine if not better than their peers.

Popeyes•7mo ago

You can only meet the ones who haven't died.

0xbadcafebee•7mo ago

There are many old guys who smoke a pack of cigarettes a day for their whole life. There's many more guys who aren't as old because they died from smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. (I'm not saying weed causes these issues, but I am saying anecdotes are less than useful)

owebmaster•7mo ago

I have met many smokers with diseases directly related to the habit of smoking cigarettes. I have never met a cannabis smoker in the same situation or that developed it over time (20 years span).

Obviously, cannabis smokers also die from heart diseases but if smoking cannabis was something that would be related to heart attacks we would know by now, a research would not be needed or it would be quite obvious and accepted.

bluGill•7mo ago

Cannabis was illegal for many years in most countries (it often still is, but the laws are ignored). There have not been many studies year, given the timelines of the law enforcement I'd expect that we would first see the long term studies start to come out now. And of course the first studies will not be conclusive.

harimau777•7mo ago

I think that a lot of drug users (at least in America) use drugs to escape their circumstances. IMHO, what's needed is to help people improve their circumstances so that they have better alternatives. Unfortunately, that is sorely lacking in America.

kordlessagain•7mo ago

> Although the authors will not share the data directly, any interested researcher may apply the search strategy developed for this analysis, available in the online supplemental appendix.

cluckindan•7mo ago

Yeah, that’s a bit of a red flag. A better study would of course open up the data, so validation would be easier.

But a better study would also have figured out whether the effects are correlated with specific strains of cannabis, perhaps even specific cannabinoids. There is no guarantee that it is specifically THC causing these effects, it could very well be CBG (cannabigerol) or just the inhalation of smoke itself: inhaled particular matter from combustion has been shown to cause cardiovascular issues, among other things.

kotaKat•7mo ago

I’m more inclined to believe the physical stress of coughing my ass off on a bad hit would wreck my heart over time than the THC itself, times thousands and thousands of coughs…

bluGill•7mo ago

Err, you sound like alcoholics I know who won't use ice in their drinks because they "had a bad icecube once". That is trying to justify your habit by finding anything you can to blame the issues on something else.

I have no idea what the truth is here. However it sounds like your mind won't be open to it if it doesn't allow for your drugs.

kotaKat•7mo ago

Didn’t think we’d get this kind of shitty boomer take on HN, but you do you.

cluckindan•7mo ago

See, smoking anything is bad for you. Get a vaporizer.

snitzr•7mo ago

People have really been lied to re: the risks of smoking pot. Especially the potency and dosage so many more people are using.

chuckadams•7mo ago

I agree, but it doesn't help that the pre-legalization regimes also lied their asses off continuously. We're only seeing these studies now because we stopped threatening people with career ruin or even imprisonment for studying it.

daeken•7mo ago

My doctor sends out a monthly newsletter sharing things he finds interesting or useful, medical news, etc. Just this weekend he covered this study and shared his own thoughts on this, which I'll summarize since I haven't asked his permission to share verbatim:

This study does show a strong correlation but doesn't attempt to show causation. If cannabis users are significantly different than non-users in terms of activity levels or diet, or the ways they manage anxiety/pain/boredom, this could cause skewing. Since people use cannabis to treat (however effectively) various conditions, what is the risk of those conditions going untreated?

I thought this was a good analysis; glad to see a bit of desensationalism.

corndoge•7mo ago

How did you find a doctor like this? If I wanted to get a doctor who communicates with patients and visibly stays up to date, where should I go?

daeken•7mo ago

He was recommended by my therapist. Essentially runs an all-inclusive, boutique medical service; expensive, but actually turned out to be cheaper than all the services I'd previously had to use, for the best care of my life. That said, he only sees a limited number of patients (actually just closed new memberships from the web, only accepting referrals until he hits his cap) and only in Georgia.

I imagine there are other boutique providers out there, but this has been a first for me and given me hope that healthcare might not be so goddamn awful for everyone eventually.

wswope•7mo ago

Just to tail off this and explain the business model, searching for “direct primary care” is a good way to find this type of physician.

A lot of these smaller shops start under the “DPC” label to build up a client base, charging something like $75-150/mo for unlimited primary care services. When the practice starts to hit its limits, they close off new patient signups, and start offering “concierge” signups at ~4x the DPC rate. The concierge patients are basically the whales who make the business model profitable (and I don’t mean to use that label as a pejorative).

daeken•7mo ago

Huh, that business model honestly makes a lot of sense and -- ignoring the time component -- could be helpful for accessibility. My doctor has flat pricing for all members (he makes it public on the site, and included advance notice of an increase in his newsletter), but it is way out of reach for most folks. Not that 300 members goes that far either, but it's tough.

zug_zug•7mo ago

I have no idea why we keep putting this stuff on HN. Common thing X causes/reduces 1 (out of 100) types of cancer or health issue.

Without looking at all the effects together, the comparison product (alcohol?), and the actual change in risk it’s as likely to confuse as inform.

bognition•7mo ago

In my experience the HN crowd is generally interested in cutting edge science that is relevant to pop culture.

Ever since cannabis use has become normalized there has been a vigorous debate about its long term safety and the issue is far from settled. This study is another data point that we as individuals can use to make decisions about cannabis use.

You are right that in practices we can't just look at cannabis use in isolation from the rest of a persons lifestyle. However, science almost never starts with a comprehensive analysis. Instead it starts with smaller targeted studies that are then used to build the comprehensive arguments.

So while yes I it would be more useful know the risk of cannabis use relative to drinking alcohol, consumer sugar, lack of exercise, etc... this data point in an of it self is still useful.

zug_zug•7mo ago

20% of Americans use weed.

I think HN crowd is more likely to read one article out-of-context and over-extrapolate. In this case, there's no article even linked, just an abstract, so anybody jumping to conclusions from this isn't being very HN.

Somebody who was really HN would read the whole article, see what doses, what % risk change, what age, see what other studies say, etc.

altairprime•7mo ago

HN readers are, at least if they’re in sfbay, somewhat more likely to use a variety of drugs (prescribed or otherwise) and significantly more likely to have researched the beneficial and adverse affects of any drugs they take voluntarily, relative to a baseline default population. “Nootropics” preceded “Microdosing”, and the human fascination with optimizing oneself knows few bounds.

ramesh31•7mo ago

One thing I never see in these studies is control for all nicotine usage. Cannabis use is a massive indicator for that, and can very easily be under reported if it is not actually being tested for.

code_for_monkey•7mo ago

This is true! I would also like a study that separates the danger of smoking, any substance burned and inhaled is dangerous, but is it more or less dangerous than the actual thc?

0xbadcafebee•7mo ago

There's also a link between sugar and your teeth falling out, water and drowning, heat and burning to death, sunlight and cancer, etc. Cardiovascular disease presents in half of all American adults. This isn't interesting news.

ImJamal•7mo ago

It is when some people consistently parrot the idea that weed is harmless.

amanaplanacanal•7mo ago

Smoking anything is bad, we've known that inhaling particulates is bad for a long time.

ddoolin•7mo ago

Only sort of related, but I'm almost completely unable to smoke anymore. I used to smoke heavily in my early 20s (33 now). Now if I take more than one hit of anything, I'm liable to have an anxiety/panic attack. I can hardly move and I get these awful chills. The way it's consumed hardly matters; even with edibles, I can only have 1-2mg. I've ceased entirely and I don't regret it at all.

I'm sure there are at least a couple of other causes (genetics, early life diet), but I think it did worsen some hormonal imbalance issues I've had too.

andoando•7mo ago

Same. Stupid me kept smoking for a year despite that.

It's fairly common. Works great then one day, boom, pure anxiety hell. I went from being my happiest ever to taking years to just feel "ok" again

ddoolin•7mo ago

Whoa, you and the other commenter are the only ones I've ever met who even remotely relate to this though (I've never bothered searching it out on the net). That's actually kind of a relief. For me it also coincided with just higher anxiety in general so I'm not really sure which came first.

andoando•7mo ago

If you search "weed panic attack" its all over the place.

I wondered what happened to me for a while and I tried different strains/methods but it was all the same. The only thing I can think of this seemed to have started after a semi bad experience with MDMA and weed.

gedy•7mo ago

Same here. I think the link to panic attacks and psychosis triggers gets downplayed a bit.

bradleykingz•7mo ago

had a six month period where i was pretty much a zombie. i call it my time in hell...

i know another guy that got admitted to a mental institution... and seen plenty of people 'stuck in their own heads' - talking to themselves, blabbering about things nobody understands but them...

side effects of weed are downplayed a lot

barbazoo•7mo ago

Are there any studies on that?

username135•7mo ago

Its been my observation that most moderate to heavy users have similar reactions eventually - myself included. I gave it up for years. Eventually, I found my way back and was determined to get through the anxiety/unpleasantness. What worked for me was starting back slow (2.5 mg of edibles) and working my way up from there.

Some times it was great, sometimes I could feel the anxiety/panic attack coming. In cases where the latter happened, I would really try to focus on why it was happening and what feelings I was having (mentally/physically). At a low dose, it was much easier to sort out the "who, what, when, where, why" of why the experience turned negative. I started recognizing the onset of the negative experience and learned to simply 'ride the wave' past it. And so I learned a big part of that was the expectation that it was going to be bad and everything that came with it. It became self fulfilling. As soon as I made those internal connections, it's been amazing. The only problems I have now are tolerance related :)

Any way, if you enjoyed it in the past, I'd encourage you to try it again at some point, but start with very small doses and work your way up.

codr7•7mo ago

From what I've seen, worrying about reactions and resisting the effect, for whatever reasons; which makes you see exactly what you expect and experience the effects stronger.

Like many here, I finally managed to fix that by leaning into it for a while, which wasn't always pleasant, but fixing internal issues is rarely pleasant. For me it was a lot about letting go of fear, which is always a good thing.

username135•7mo ago

Pretty much. I think it boulss down to self awareness and a willingness to understand yourself more fully (as silly as that might sound)

bradleykingz•7mo ago

my solution has been somewhat similar... i only smoke once a week.

in my experience, weed 'flips the world' so that 'stuff' is no longer 'shut out'.

if you've lots of issues you'd rather not deal with, you're probably in for a bad time... depends a lot of course - where are you, how you feeling, who you with, do you trust them, the weed itself,

to me the experience is like a waking dream, where a very raw version of you comes out...

but that only works if you take massive breaks (1+week?) in between. give time for the 'stuff' to build up again.

excellent for meditative activities, but incredibly difficult from a self control perspective

andoando•7mo ago

I also went back to it over the years because I wanted to "beat it" and I think there is truth to what you're saying. The biggest help I got that seemed to work was a reddit comment that said the best way to fight the anxiety was essentially to not be scared if it and egg the panic on.

Start feeling panicky? Come Your heart is racing? Ok Go head and beat faster fucker.

But anyway I don't think its worth it.

ChrisArchitect•7mo ago

Previously:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44361795

deanebarker•7mo ago

I read through it, but I couldn't figure out if it was (1) just smoked cannabis, or (2) general THC usage (from gummies or drinks).

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Positive link between cannabis use and 'Major Adverse Cardiovascular Events'

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