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What causes obesity? A major new study is upending common wisdom

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/what-causes-obesity-a-major-new-study-is-upending-common-wisdom/ar-AA1IDR4o
14•elsewhen•7h ago

Comments

jbreckmckye•6h ago
Summary (no gpt):

- Why are people in the West fat when people in developing nations are thin?

- Prevailing wisdom is that Westerners use fewer calories / have sedentary lifestyle

- Study compared calorie expenditures across societies and found this was false

- Cause is probably diet, maybe ultra processed foods, but not movement

- Data covered 4213 men and women across 34 countries

abracadaniel•6h ago
The constrained total energy expenditure model is fascinating and counterintuitive. It seems the body adjusts its energy spending to keep it at steady state regardless of exercise. But, since exercise is still beneficial, it seems that too much energy spent on the “nice to have” processes are likely a source of the various diseases of sedentary life. It seems like the benefits of fasting are explained by this.
reverendsteveii•6h ago
People who exercise have known this for years. The accepted wisdom in the gym has always been that you can't out-train a bad diet, and we've known for a really long time that outside extremes like marathon runners and swimmers the amount of calories burned by exercise is minimal and given the average American diet's relatively high total calorie count may slow down the rate of weight gain but won't stop it or cause weight loss. Between that and the way the body will adapt over time to continuous strenuous physical activity to become more efficient frankly idk how it became "common wisdom" that obesity is caused by a lack of activity. I think it might be less to do with the facts and more to do with the personal, individualist orientation of our loci of control. To do something about processed, calorie-dense but nutrition-poor foods and the absolutely bizonkerwonks portions we serve people would require slow, difficult collective action that will be resisted by a lot of people who have a lot to gain from the current arrangement of things. Saying "you personally are the problem and you personally are the only one who can do anything about it" empowers the individual over the short term and for relatively modest goals but sacrifices our ability to achieve anything that requires cooperation.
SirMaster•6h ago
>the amount of calories burned by exercise is minimal

What evidence is there for this? All the things that calculate approximate calories burned for various exercises tell me that it's not minimal.

I burn about an average of an extra 500 calories a day doing exercise type activities. Playing pickleball, cycling, jogging, etc.

Losing 1 pound is about 3500 calories, so 500 calories a day burned is about 1 pound a week which is not insignificant or minimal in my opinion at least.

I kept my diet the same, and added about 500 cal average of exercise per day and have been seeing my weight dropping by a few pounds a month.

Obviously diet is the biggest factor, but if you just eat less and sit around all day, you body will adapt to the lower calorie intake and slow your metabolism down too and you will have to eat so little that you will never feel full or satisfied (so you will probably not be able to keep that up for long) and you will feel like crap and have no energy if you don't combine with exercise, at least in my experience.

Kirby64•5h ago
> What evidence is there for this? All the things that calculate approximate calories burned for various exercises tell me that it's not minimal.

Minimal meaning that the amount of exercise you need to do to burn substantial amounts of calories is quite high. Your example of 500cal would be something like an hour of moderate intensity jogging, which would be a lot of exercise for someone to do every single day.

Meanwhile, eating 500cal takes like... 5 minutes? Less?

> Obviously diet is the biggest factor, but if you just eat less and sit around all day, you body will adapt to the lower calorie intake and slow your metabolism down too and you will have to eat so little that you will never feel full or satisfied (so you will probably not be able to keep that up for long) and you will feel like crap and have no energy if you don't combine with exercise, at least in my experience.

Metabolic adaption is largely overblown. You definitely will burn less calories as you lose weight, but that would happen exercise or not. The only difference there is that exercise tends to build muscle, which would burn more calories and offset some of that loss. The fact of the matter is, if you end up losing substantial amounts of weight, you will need to eat fewer calories to maintain that same lower weight forever.

In my experience, if you're losing weight then you are often going to feel not full. It's just a natural human reaction to caloric deficit. There's tricks to making it not be as impactful (e.g., eat more whole foods, less junk, etc) or medication to make it less of a problem (i.e., GLPs), but expecting to be able to lose weight and always feel full just by adding exercise is wishful thinking.

SirMaster•5h ago
>which would be a lot of exercise for someone to do every single day.

Well I already disagree here at this point I guess. For me that is like the minimum on average. When I'm playing pickleball I'm plying like 3 hours, if i'm cycling I'm cycling like 2 hours, and if i'm jogging i'm jogging like an hour.

Humans are built to be active, not sitting in an office all day, and for a healthily lifestyle I don't think this asking too much IMO to do an hour of moderate exercise a day on average.

I kind of feel like crap when I am not exercising and feel like I have a lot more energy when I do exercise nearly every day. That's my experience with it at least.

Kirby64•5h ago
For someone that is doing little to no exercise every day, asking someone to do an hour of moderate intensity jogging or possibly multiple hours of lower intensity activity (e.g., pickleball) is asking a lot.

Advocating for folks to exercise is a worthy cause, but you're setting people up for failure by advocating for adding a minimum of 7 additional hours a week to their schedule.

EDIT addition: Realistically, adding something like 30 mins of exercise a few times a week (3-4) is more achievable. And in that regard, it doesn't really burn meaningful calories. Maybe an additional 500-1000 a week if you're actually pushing yourself, but beginners often don't.

SirMaster•4h ago
Well of course you don't just jump from 0 to that much a day/week. It would and should take a newcomer a few months to ramp up to that level, but I believe that most people can support that amount of activity.

I mean sure I agree that 500-1000 cal a week in exercise would be minimal which is precisely why I think people should have a more ambitious goal to work into their life even if it takes months to get to that level.

reverendsteveii•5h ago
I spent a year powerlifting and lost absolutely no weight, then spent 2 years powerlifting while restricting myself to 1800 cals/day and lost weight. If we're doing personal anecdotes.

If we're doing hard data, I think you're overestimating the impact of taking 500 calories a day off of the average American's diet, which comes in at around 3800 calories/day (https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/chart-d...). Assuming 3300 net calories per day after exercise, one would have to be in the neighborhood of 400 pounds for that to be below maintenance level assuming 40 y/o moderately active based on the mayo clinic calorie counter (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/weight-loss/in-...). Hell, I ride a bike 6 miles and lift weights every day, have done for two years, and my maintenance calories are still only in the 2200-2300 range, which means if my diet was average I'd be exercising every day and still putting on pounds rather quickly. Tldr - I think your results are an outlier because you've underestimated how much better your existing diet is than the average.

SirMaster•5h ago
It shouldn't matter what the diet is. 500 cal a day is 500 cal a day and that adds up for most people on average to 1 pound a week. Whether it's 1 pound a week that you are now not gaining or 1 pound a week that you are now losing, or something in between, it's still ~1 pound of body comp worth of calories which IMO is not "minimal".

I never said exercising 500 calories a day means you will lose weight, I just disagree that: "the amount of calories burned by exercise is minimal" I still don't think it's minimal.

If you burn an extra 500 cal a day on average that will be about 50 pounds a year of "difference", whether that's you gaining less weight or losing weight that's all up to your total calorie intake of course.

jbreckmckye•1h ago
How are people consuming 3800 calories per day? I don't doubt your numbers but the scale of that seems inconceivable.
jbreckmckye•1h ago
When I trained for a half marathon, I didn't lose any weight. I just became very hungry.

(And, unfortunately, when I injured myself, I kept being hungry - and gained mass)

BizarroLand•52m ago
Calories in Calories out, but that is only accurately calculable if you have an accurate idea of how many calories you are sending out, and if you are obese or formerly obese, the online calculators are likely not accurate for you at all.

One thing that is overlooked is that losing weight can permanently or at least semi-permanently decrease BMR, your Basal Metabolic Rate.

Your BMR is the calories you burn just to be alive, and is the foundation of almost every calorie counting system in the world.

At my worst, as a 33 year old 250lb 6'1" man, my BMR was at 1,836 Calories/day when it should have been at 2,133 Calories/day as diagnosed by a dexa scan and calorimetry test.

A 300 calorie a day decrease in my BMR from losing 100 lbs meant that I have to either find a way to increase my total metabolic burn or I have to permanently cut almost an entire meal from my diet for the rest of my life.

This was helpful and harmful in a way. It explained why when I was eating 500 calories a day under what my calculator said I should be eating I was barely losing a pound or two a month instead of a pound a week like I should have.

I was also tired and hungry all of the time, no energy, irritable and unhappy because so much weight loss had changed the way I function.

But when I quit the diet, I put on weight like crazy. I put on like 20 lbs in a couple of weeks and I didn't eat that much more than usual.

I've been checked for thyroid issues and diabetes, fortunately clear there, just a literally slowed metabolism as a consequence of losing 100 lbs.

There are things I can do to speed it back up, like going to the gym and putting on as much muscle as possible, but that also takes time and effort and work and it requires overeating and gaining weight at the same time.

Basically, once you're on a diet, you're always on a diet for the rest of your life, and the more weight you lose, the harder it becomes to lose weight if your metabolism is altered by your diet in the process.

If you're having trouble losing weight, get a Dexa scan and calorimetry test. That will identify where the fat is in your body and how many calories your body burns just sitting there doing nothing.

Once you have that data you can more accurately plan your diet to stay close to the 500 calorie/day limit to healthily lose weight. Just make sure you get re-scanned every 20 lbs or 6 months, it's not that expensive and gives you good information.

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