Hydrogen was never practical in the consumer space, but I think it still has benefits to offer in the heavy machinery and long-haul transport space. This is why Toyota is investing heavily in the long-haul transport space and is making hydrogen-powered class 8 heavy-duty trucks. As for heavy machinery, it's likely they would license the technology to the major players (Caterpillar, Komatsu, Volvo CE) in that space.
PaulHoule•6mo ago
Can't see it competing with battery electric on one hand and fossil-fuels and e-fuels on the other. Even for heavy industry I think dimethyl ether makes more sense:
I used to think that making e-fuels off concentrated CO2 sources from industrial sources made no sense but it could make the economics of the fuel synthesizer a lot better though it doesn't mix with the idea that the fuel synthesizer runs only when cheap energy is available.
Sohcahtoa82•6mo ago
I'm not convinced that hydrogen is ever better than a battery.
Your hydrogen tank is going to be bigger, heavier, and less practical (It's basically a bomb) than a battery that gives the same amount of energy. Producing the hydrogen requires significant power, so it's not even better for the environment unless your energy comes from a clean source.
I suppose there's the benefit that you can refill it quickly just like with gasoline, but you'd have to build out an entire new distribution system. At least with batteries, you just have to connect to the existing power grid.
cosmicgadget•6mo ago
The longevity discussion isn't straightforward but worth considering.
taylodl•6mo ago
The total system weight for hydrogen (tank + hydrogen) for a class 8 truck capable of a range of 500 miles is 16% of the weight that an EV battery pack would be that delivers the same range - even though the EV is considerably more efficient. That decrease in weight is extra payload that can be delivered.
Because this application is limited to commercial traffic, we don't need to worry about an expansive hydrogen distribution network like we would have to do with non-commercial vehicles. Also, Toyota's hydrogen pumps are designed to fill at the rate of diesel - so the trucks can be easily refilled.
The bottom line is I don't think this is an either/or decision. I think there are some applications for which hydrogen makes more sense, and there are some applications for which EV makes more sense.
hulitu•6mo ago
> I'm not convinced that hydrogen is ever better than a battery.
You don't have to carry 2 tons with you everytime.
sunflowerfly•6mo ago
Long haul trucking should almost not exist. Automate a hub and spike rail system instead. Truck the first and last mile.
WorldPeas•6mo ago
I don't understand why hydrogen was so pushed for when natural gas could have achieved a similar (albeit not perfect) profile, while having more existing access and handling knowledge.
more_corn•6mo ago
Hydrogen is a petroleum company boondoggle and a fake renewable fuel.
taylodl•6mo ago
PaulHoule•6mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether
I used to think that making e-fuels off concentrated CO2 sources from industrial sources made no sense but it could make the economics of the fuel synthesizer a lot better though it doesn't mix with the idea that the fuel synthesizer runs only when cheap energy is available.
Sohcahtoa82•6mo ago
Your hydrogen tank is going to be bigger, heavier, and less practical (It's basically a bomb) than a battery that gives the same amount of energy. Producing the hydrogen requires significant power, so it's not even better for the environment unless your energy comes from a clean source.
I suppose there's the benefit that you can refill it quickly just like with gasoline, but you'd have to build out an entire new distribution system. At least with batteries, you just have to connect to the existing power grid.
cosmicgadget•6mo ago
taylodl•6mo ago
Because this application is limited to commercial traffic, we don't need to worry about an expansive hydrogen distribution network like we would have to do with non-commercial vehicles. Also, Toyota's hydrogen pumps are designed to fill at the rate of diesel - so the trucks can be easily refilled.
The bottom line is I don't think this is an either/or decision. I think there are some applications for which hydrogen makes more sense, and there are some applications for which EV makes more sense.
hulitu•6mo ago
You don't have to carry 2 tons with you everytime.
sunflowerfly•6mo ago