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Apple bans entire dev account, no reason given

https://twitter.com/rameerez/status/1945784476723810739
100•eecc•3h ago

Comments

__warlord__•3h ago
And yet, I’m still waiting for them to approve my developer account, It’s been two months now. they seriously need to be broken up and allow other app stores and ways to developer for their hardware.
hansvm•2h ago
I assume you had to pay up-front 2 months ago?
hyllos•3h ago
The letter says that you violated section 3.2(f) of the ADP agreement. [corrected the section no.]
runjake•2h ago
3.2f.

“You will not, directly or indirectly, commit any act intended to interfere with any of the Apple Software or Services“

k1t•2h ago
2.3 vs 3.2?
fzimmermann89•2h ago
Contacting support obviously interfered with Apple services. Duh.
creatonez•53m ago
I wonder if they have a problem with the core functionality of the program. Maybe they do not want any Windows Recall clones popping up before they can offer their own solution, so they've decided to stamp down on this (screen recording timelapse software) because it is vaguely in the same category.
deanc•40m ago
Then ban the app. Not the account.
bn-l•2h ago
If you're logging in from a country that historically has had a lot of fraud coming from it, this might be the reason why.

When travelling in Hungary my AWS account was banned the moment I tried to log in. I got basically no reason. I was able to call support but the guy very polite fobbed me off and I got the idea that they weren't even able to disclose the reason why they banned me.

Razengan•2h ago
imgur also banned logins and uploads from Ukraine, Vietnam etc. with no reason given, just a dirty 502 return code.

https://old.reddit.com/r/imguralternatives/comments/1kr11nw/...

while flaunting "Stand with Ukraine!" and all that virtue signaling.

Y-bar•59m ago
I don’t think that’s true anymore. This person for example is uploading from Ukraine: https://imgur.com/user/SytchArt
hofrogs•59m ago
There was a time (a few weeks/months, I think?) when I've been getting that "imgur is over capacity, try again later" every time I tried to open an image posted there. First few times I wondered if imgur is really down, but haven't seen anyone in related comment sections complain, eventually I figured out that they are just lying to you with a fake error message if they don't like your IP for whatever reason, and the situation made me really angry (just return a 403 and say that the address is banned, damn it! It helps nobody to give a wrong error message and googling it just shows that many people have the same problem, scrapers will not be fooled by that anyway). After a while, I stopped getting those errors.
bzzzt•24m ago
It's complicated. Lots of sites want to geoblock Russia for good reasons, but it's not always clear if an IP address is Russian or Ukrainian. https://www.kentik.com/blog/the-russification-of-ukrainian-i...
throwaway277432•1h ago
Don't ever travel, never change anything related to billing except to update your cards before they expire. Don't change your name, email adresses or lose access to your phone number, and as we know now also don't ask support.

Then don't use any uncommon tools, e.g. ones associated with 'hacking', or store any copyrighted files in their cloud.

If there's any issue or error with logins etc., don't retry too quickly or too often or that in itself will be suspicious. Wait a day between requests, and double-check everything before retrying. Do not retry from a different IP or worse a VPN, or that will also be suspicious.

That should just about cover the bases for most providers.

Yes, it's insane and obviously you still need a backup of all your stuff just in case.

Y-bar•1h ago
> Don't change your name, email adresses or lose access to your phone number, and as we know now also don't ask support.

This reads like some list of instructions from the Brazil film.

gblargg•2h ago
It's a privilege to even have your Apple device working. If Apple decides it won't work, you're at their mercy.
Razengan•2h ago
Same goes for Windows or Android really.
aniforprez•2h ago
If my windows device fails, I'm not going to Microsoft. I either fix the offending part of my desktop or laptop, or reinstall the OS or move to a different OS. If something is wrong with my android phone, I'm not going to Google since I don't own a Pixel and will go to the manufacturer of the phone. If it's a purely software issue, there are steps I can actually take to flash a different ROM though admittedly it's not an easy process.

Here Apple not only owns the device but also the software it's running as well as distribution of apps for this device except for CLI tools distributed by brew or other package managers. At least with a Mac I can install and run applications over the Internet. With an iPhone that's not at all possible (not sure about the status of side loading with the EU ruling and all)

RedCardRef•2h ago
Not really the case for Android, you skip the google account setup or the amazon account setup if you are using a fire tablet and continue using the device by sideloading whatever APKs you want. Most of the times the APKs that depend on Google Play Services will continue to work fine.

I skipped the amazon account registration and directly sideloaded the Google Play apps on my fire tablet.

Even for Google TVs you can skip the setup and use the TV as is. You can sideload APKs on this as well.

AFAIK, the account setup/login circumvention is not possible on fire tv sticks/google chromecasts.

You can take a very old android device factory reset it and continue using at as an offline only device without the blessings of google or amazon. (Except FRP devices)

But that is not the case with Apple, you need to connect it atleast once to the internet to activate the device.

ale42•1h ago
> Not really the case for Android, you skip the google account setup

Is this possible even if the account is locked to the device (FRP), which is often the case?

lawn•1h ago
How many alternative operating systems work well on Apple devices?

Android phones usually have multiple options (Lineage, Calyx, eos, Graphene, depending on your particular phone) and you can always replace Windows with Linux.

throwawaysoxjje•1h ago
How well do those alternatives play with your banking app?
jojobas•1h ago
Why would you want a banking app? If your bank won't work over browser and insists on installing some crap on your device, shop for another bank.
exe34•1h ago
^This. For me, it's not my phone that's defective, it's the app. My phone runs my other ~10 apps that provide for my digital life perfectly fine, with the level of security I'm comfortable with (root access, firewall to block anything in/out that I don't specifically allow). If this is a problem for your app, your app is broken. I'll use something else.
asimovDev•53m ago
In Finland, for example, you have to authenticate online through your banking application for any online government service or things like mobile plan. This 2FA is basically mandatory and the alternative is using keys printed on a paper that you have to pay for cause every key is one time use only and I am not sure they will continue that service for long.

It’s probably similar in Sweden and other neighbouring countries

Mashimo•32m ago
I would not be able to log into _any_ local banking website without the government 2fa app. Not sure what the alternative is. Maybe they can give you an old school hardware device.

Or read the digital letters from government / municipalities.

Also I like my banking app.

octo888•1h ago
Pretty well https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

Also, having your banking app on your phone isn't the most desirable thing in reality, if you're security-minded.

junon•41m ago
My bank requires it, for better or for worse.

Any bank transfers are MFAd via the app, for example. It's the only bank that allows non-citizens in Germany that has English correspondence and wouldn't have taken months in Bureaucracy to open an account when I first moved.

zettabomb•28m ago
Can I ask what bank that is? I'm looking at getting a German bank account, and I'm still much more comfortable with English.
octo888•26m ago
So you chose an app-only 'bank' such as Revolut?

What did people do before such apps?

nromiun•1h ago
Very well for my banking apps. With root and developers options enabled on my phone as well. If your banking apps does not work complain to your bank.
Animats•2h ago
Another reason to not support MacOS targets. Dealing with Apple is just too much of a hassle.
andrewmcwatters•2h ago
Malicious or not, feels appropriate for https://github.com/andrewmcwattersandco/app-store-rejections
ethan_smith•1h ago
That repo is a valuable collection of documented App Store rejections with resolution paths - helpful for developers to navigate similar situations or preemptively avoid common pitfalls.
veeti•1h ago
It sounds like the developer is just trying to notarize their macOS app, so it's not even an App Store rejection.
Jean-Papoulos•2h ago
I hope it won't take more than 10 years for the EU to actually force them to let us publish our own stuff without paying them first.
Longhanks•1h ago
Apple has no intent of ever supporting such a scenario in a way that would satisfy you. Why not switch to another manufacturer that sells what you want?
fauigerzigerk•1h ago
For many developers of mobile apps there is no switching and there is no choice. Many apps are only viable if they are available on both platforms.
FirmwareBurner•1h ago
Because Apple are one of the gatekeepers now, that's why they're getting regulated everywhere. It's not like how you can move from a Ford to a Honda, a lot of people have their entire digital lives with notes, chats, photos, videos and thousands of dollars of purchases tied to Apple's account, plus the network effect where the whole family has iPhone because of iMessage. Moving to another phone brands, they'd loose all that.

That's Apple's moat and they're fighting to the death for it because they don't have any other cash cow to milk.

Non Apple user btw.

msgodel•1h ago
This attitude is why there's very little useful software for the iPhone compared to something like Linux.

Instead all you have is spamy garbage full of ads and addictive social media cybernetics.

sussmannbaka•52m ago
There is no other manufacturer that sells what I want. The alternative is worse (Google) or incompatible with the reality of my daily life (my banks app won't work on it). On the desktop side of things it's getting better, the Framework desktop is interesting, but there's still no REAL alternative yet. Maybe in 5 years.
ktallett•38m ago
Fairphone and a Framework is just fine. What exactly do you do that suggests there is no alternative? I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can.
bayindirh•5m ago
> I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can.

Let me check the list.

- High DPI screen with color calibration and automatic white balancing, working 99% of the time. Ensuring your eyes always sees the color it expects without fatigue. Plus, HDR.

- 15+ hour battery life on an ordinary laptop if you don't abuse it. Even my M1 can handle me for a couple of days with light usage.

- Good quality speakers, decent stereo separation without being too tinny or boomy.

- Great quality cameras and microphones for its size.

- Great, backlight illuminated keyboard, with no flex.

- A realistic 8-10 year usage life without babying it.

- A full metal body, and keeping it light for that amount of metal.

- Built-in biometrics which runs on a proper secure enclave, without any "touch here, write absurdly long pasword you don't know there" shenanigans of Windows.

- A POSIX compliant, BSD descendant OS which can interoperate with Linux way better than Windows.

- A proper backup system which backs up whole OS and system state to an external drive, better than old "Windows 7 backup" and miles better than new "OneDrive only Windows Backup".

- Better radios, backend and port bandwidth than its class-equivalent machines. Essentially a loaded MacBook Pro is equivalent to a Z-Workstation Mobile from HP.

...and these are standard in almost every MacBook. I don't go through hoops to beg local distributors to build the machine I like via their configuration wizard, and wait them to import it if you feel like it, and pay 3x of its sticker price because it's a one off import tucked inside a bigger shipment. Even CTO devices by Apple are shipped in a week and comes to my door in another 1-2. I pay the sticker price for the device I want.

Do you need more?

Sent from my Linux desktop system.

socalgal2•34m ago
You completely missed the point of the post. It isn't about what phone they own. It's about what phone all the users own.

which is the same for the EU's Digital Markets Act. It's not the Smartphone Owner's Act. It's a law for letting business reach customers without having Apple in the middle. Apple (nor Google) can be allowed to have control over such a large market of customers betwen them and nearly every business.

TheHeasman•1h ago
The joys of being at a platform's mercy.
rob74•1h ago
You live by the Apple, you die by the Apple...
blitzar•1h ago
You get rich by the Apple, you get poor by the Apple...
thih9•42m ago
You pay for the dev account, you beg to keep the dev account…
Someone•1h ago
No detailed reason given. Also no info from the developer on what they might have done to trigger this, so basically, except for “Apple terminated this account”, we don’t know what happened.

All we can complain about is that Apple’s rejection letters never go into detail. I’m afraid that’s what you get when the legal department of a large corp is involved.

socalgal2•31m ago
Irrelvant. Apple shouldn't have that kind of control.
bowsamic•1h ago
Apple really are the poster child for "Stallman was right". When things are broken with their software you just have to hope that an update or relogging will magically fix things. You aren't even allowed to write your own software for the hardware you own without their permission. Terrible
seydor•1h ago
Trillion dollar companies outsourcing their developer support line to hacker news.
yreg•1h ago
Two days ago there were two redditors who had the same happen to them - banned for allegedly breaching 3.2(f). One from Australia the other from NZ.

https://old.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/s/oUVIuVWeJe

Hearing tales like these makes me super nervous. I don't think there's anything I can do to protect my app/account.

thih9•1h ago
Parent link looks incorrect, this one seems to work: https://old.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/1m14px0/jus...

This is not a new thing though, apple has been doing this for years, here is a similar report from 8 years ago: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44105523/apple-rejected-...

Also, according to that link, section 3.2f is:

“You will not, directly or indirectly, commit any act intended to interfere with the Apple Software or Services, the intent of this Agreement, or Apple’s business practices including, but not limited to, taking actions that may hinder the performance or intended use of the App Store, B2B Program, or the Program.”

outcoldman•1h ago
Something is happening right now at Apple, as I have seen another post on reddit about that (could not find it), where people complained about their Dev Accounts were banned as well, when they even did not have any apps, just used dev accounts to notarize apps for themselves.

It does suck, A LOT

thih9•52m ago
While notarization as method of increasing security is a pain, I guess we need more details. For all we know, it is just as likely that some bad actor was prevented from distributing notarized apps. Perhaps even the developer was unaware that their machine has been compromised.
qwertox•44m ago
"not [...] interfere with [...] Ad-Hoc distribution, or the Program [...]"

Obviously his email was an interference with the "Program" (Apple Developer Program). It probably had consumed an Apple employee's time, or that of an AI.

Imagine the EU or any government being in the position of saying to Apple: "You did not adhere to our terms xyz, therefore we terminate our granted permission for you to operate in this region. Please remove all tools you use to operate in this region and release the premises for other companies to use them, immediately", without explaining why. Because this is what Apple is doing.

zimpenfish•26m ago
> Imagine the EU or any government being in the position of saying to Apple: "You did not adhere to our terms xyz, therefore we terminate our granted permission for you to operate in this region.

Isn't that literally what the EU is doing with the DMA?

qwertox•4m ago
Certainly not.
cjs_ac•35m ago
I remember an /r/AskReddit thread years ago about 'What's your favourite free smartphone app?' (or something along those lines) and the comment that most stuck in my mind was from an iPhone user lamenting how many interesting and novel things were only available on Android, because publishing for iOS was simply too hard.

This isn't to say that the Google Play Store is intrinsically better than Apple's App Store; Google is equally guilty of this what's the cheapest thing we can pass off as due diligence? nonsense. However, it is a good reminder that this sort of thing has been going on for a long time, and is only getting worse.

I think the idea of the smartphone as a general-purpose computing machine is dead, and that instead phones are now the designated Muggle-safe Internet consumption platform. Apart from media streaming, ordinary people aren't using computing machinery for anything they weren't using it for twenty years ago, so I think they won't feel any loss from the stagnation of mobile apps.

The lessons for HN readers are: a) app stores exist within their platform's moat; and b) don't build your business inside someone else's moat.

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