In HEMA, it's the aesthetic that's sacrificed: we (I'm one of them) wear gear that makes us look like modern riot police, but the weapons are (at the very least) historically weighted, and the techniques are from historical fencing manuals. There's a lot of arguing over the interpretation of medieval manuscripts in the community.
Re-enactment groups wear historical clothing, so they have to reduce the scope of their combat: they typically disallow strikes to the head, for example.
The Society for Creative Anachronism dispense with everything but the aesthetic of history, and consequently have the most fun.
Since we’re going the science fiction route of letting imagination run wild, perhaps the solution could lay in the sword itself. Picture something superficially indistinguishable from the real thing made from an equivalent to nanobots which remain tight and hard against each other but immediately let go and “shatter” when struck against something else. You could bang and clash swords in fierce battle, but as soon as you would deal a severe blow against your opponent your weapon would break and deal no real damage (but still count as a win). That could be intensely satisfying and lead to great moments.
The difference between an attack that is hard to defend and an attack that will hurt if it succeeds is very slim.
A robot has more strength and reaction to stop / reroute a successful attack
In the world of non-weapons (which I'm more familiar with), say a kick needs to go into the space my body was occupying a moment ago, or avoiding it is not realistic.
Those who don't know how to swim don't drown.
Olympic fencing obviously sacrifices something, but as a layman I'd have trouble describing it.
Kendo uses wooden swords, does it sacrifice anything else? Would practitioners be proficient in HEMA and vice versa?
Another widely practiced sword art is stage combat. Obviously it has a different focus, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone well trained in stage combat could perform well against the average poorly trained swordsman.
Slicing with a katana is also very technical, if you've ever watched tameshigiri being able to properly cut is much more than just scoring a point. Kendo tries to simulate that in its subjective judging parameters, but having your attacks properly cut will be a different technique than sport Kendo.
In real life warfare knowing how to not get your weapon jammed in an opponent is important for survival but is very hard to practice in modern day life...
Edit: as an analogue: if you learn boxing or muay thai, first you learn how to hit a bag properly. Then you spend 10-100x longer figuring out how to execute those techniques in an actual fight. Then you watch a master like Canelo or Tawanchai work their beautiful art and feel depressed
Kendo is highly ritualised, and therefore has the same problems. The shinai (bamboo swords) also behave very differently to actual swords.
I forgot to mention bohurt/buhurt, which, as far as I can tell, is just Eastern European chaps donning plate armour and giving each other concussions with pollaxes.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-07-10/mediev...
Kenjutsu is the older Japanese martial art of fighting with a sword and has a wider selection of techniques, but isn't a sport. Some of the schools do spar, and the end result doesn't look quite like kendo.
I think the biggest difference between HEMA and modern (sparring) kenjutsu is the weapons they practice with, their weight, shape, length and style of use -- matching the random path of history in each region.
Link to a scan of 1736 treatise: https://www.ffamhe.fr/collectionpalas/nouveau-traite-girard.... (even if you don't read French, the text includes numerous diagrams)
Link to a directory listing the various texts digitized by the French HEMA federation: https://www.ffamhe.fr/collection_palas/ (clicking on any of the links will take you to a page with more detail. To download the document click on the link beside the text that says "Pour télécharger la numérisation, cliquez sur ce lien").
HEMA people are generally very welcoming and probably slightly mad. quite expensive to get into, but great fun.
Fencing is more common, but start out with epee, foil is a big weird as you have right of way, its a training system and it shows, its harder to learn and not as fun. Sabre is for people who like shouting lots, more one hit wonder.
For the eastern styles:
A good Aikido class should start out with weapons, you wont be going full speed as even with wooden sticks, stuff gets dangerous pretty quick.
Korean sword work is going through somewhat of a renaissance, I don't know that much about it though.
If you're doing eastern style sword work, don't be tempted to get a metal sword, you'll never be able to train with it, and they are almost always poor quality. (unless you know what you're doing)
But that may be a bias about form.
I fenced 4-5 times a week for about 10 years, even teaching and was at one point ranked.
Our policy was to start people on foil with a strong focus on form for usually about a year before moving to Sabre or epee.
Of course, we also usually started people with a French grip, and wrist up vs sideways.
One goal for example would be in lunge practice to have a penny or dime a few inches in front of your shoe, and have that go flying without your shoe hitting the floor.
I agree with you though that epee is the most fun, and also the most realistic.
The right of way in foil is not realistic. Furthermore, I always disliked Sabre as it is very showy but not nearly as enjoyable.
In short, foil to learn initial form and practice, and then move to epee. (I realize the arm position difference can create a challenge for some there )
“Foil is art, Sabre is theater, epee is truth”.
Then they took on their individual quirks like right-of-way.
I think my bias comes from starting out with japanese sword styles and then moving to european. Instead of huge wide swings, it was all about jabbing someone on the wrist, or intercepting and controlling the blade.
I think because I tried Epee first, foil just seemed slow.
Japanese sword styles have always been fascinating to me, though I lack any formal education in them.
This is so wrong. Metal is fantastic. Just buy a sparring quality Jian (metal), or wood. "Keep it real" so to speak, for weight, handling, etc. Get the Rodell Sparring Jian.
Chinese Swordsmanship is undergoing a renaissance. Yes, it is dangerous. Buy protective gear (especially your eyes), and work with a teacher.
But the gist is it seemed spears won more of the simulated combats.
Some of the allure of swords perhaps comes from the fact that they are the shape of a Christian cross.
Irony can sometimes be a bit harsh.
Fencing was such a big part of my life for so long, but when I got to my late 30's the power went out of my body. It was shocking, but just true, I couldn't do what I used to be able to do when I was young and I had to come to terms with it. A lot of people go into coaching, or make their peace and fence as a veteran, but I couldn't do that. It took me a long time to grasp why because I used to coach when I was competitive, so why could I not abide it when I knew I could not compete.
The answer was not attractive. I envy the young. I cannot stand to watch them and know I am not one of them.
If you are young then take up swords, or racquets, or gloves and revel in your sinuous power. Soon it will be gone, and all you will have is memory, until something comes sliding and slipping and takes even that, and you find yourself tumbling into the night.
Do you mean strength? Obviously everyone is different. But from my experience in martial arts, men in their 40s, 50s and even 60s are still plenty strong. But you do lose a bit of flexibility and speed as you get older.
Look, we don't see professional athletes in their 40's much if at all. Mike Tyson was the best fighter (ever?) and looked in shocking good shape - but he still lost to that goon.
George Foreman was still battering people in the ring at quite an age. But he was an outlier.
I would say that Ali was the greatest heavyweight boxer ever, in terms of sheer virtuosity and skill (before he went to prison anyway). ;0)
Which is all too clear, if you watch the pitiful and embarrassing spectacle that is an Olympic Taekwondo match.
failrate•6mo ago