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Show HN: Rallies-CLI, AI powered investment research

https://github.com/ralliesai/rallies-cli
1•Faizann20•4m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Anti-short-form platform for meaningful content

https://rhomeapp.com
1•rohannihalani•8m ago•0 comments

New Blood Group Found – Crib

https://www.moneycontrol.com/europe/?url=https://www.moneycontrol.com/science/new-blood-group-discovered-never-before-seen-blood-type-found-in-indian-woman-article-13350289.html
1•praving5•12m ago•0 comments

ECCO Consensus on Dietary Management of Inflammatory Bowel Disease

https://academic.oup.com/ecco-jcc/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ecco-jcc/jjaf122/8198055
1•fodmap•15m ago•0 comments

Midjourney TV

https://www.midjourney.tv/
2•lnyan•17m ago•0 comments

PHP Is the Perfect Language for Beginners

https://medium.com/@GilbertTallam/unpopular-opinion-php-is-the-perfect-language-for-beginners-heres-my-story-4c993bf9e153
1•samspenc•18m ago•0 comments

Unprecedented continental drying, shrinking freshwater availability

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adx0298
1•anjel•23m ago•0 comments

Songs are getting longer again, despite TikTok

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-052ab668-403d-416f-b5a6-c5692313b9b4
1•colinprince•25m ago•0 comments

Big 3 under fire for not paying tower contractors enough

https://www.fierce-network.com/wireless/big-3-under-fire-not-paying-tower-contractors-enough
1•petethomas•27m ago•0 comments

Lazy Online Merchants: CC Authorizations

1•FesterCluck•32m ago•0 comments

SVG Repo

https://www.svgrepo.com/
1•EPendragon•38m ago•0 comments

Go's race detector has a mutex blind spot

https://doublefree.dev/go-race-mutex-blindspot/
1•susam•41m ago•0 comments

Show HN: EveLock – A 100% Offline Period Tracker (No Cloud, No Account)

https://onionwave7.gumroad.com/l/otakp
1•kian_sage•44m ago•0 comments

Classic CDE (Common Desktop Environment) Coming to OpenBSD

https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20250730080301
10•susam•48m ago•3 comments

Crib Sheet: A Conventional Boy

https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2025/07/crib-sheet-a-conventional-boy.html
2•simonpure•51m ago•0 comments

Lichess Accuracy Metric

https://lichess.org/page/accuracy
2•susam•51m ago•0 comments

Soham Interview Simulator

https://soham.penrose.com
3•Bromeo•52m ago•0 comments

Huawei Open Source Cangjie Programming Language SDK 1.0.0 Version

https://gitcode.com/Cangjie/cangjie_compiler
1•yms_hi•1h ago•0 comments

Jonhoo and Helsing AI's DSON: A delta-state CRDT for resilient P2P communication

https://blog.helsing.ai/dson-a-delta-state-crdt-for-resilient-peer-to-peer-communication-7823349a042c
1•super_linear•1h ago•0 comments

Ask HN: Should I pay for marketing to this B2C SaaS product? (~8% paying rate)

1•y2236li•1h ago•0 comments

You know what: Microsoft became miserably incompetent in IT

https://mikekaganski.wordpress.com/2025/07/25/microsoft-anybody-home/
5•doener•1h ago•1 comments

Show HN: Zillow Scraper – Agent and Property Export

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/zillow-scraper-agent-prop/mbpanoogbnehgacolcfmlddmpnljpbml
2•qwikhost•1h ago•1 comments

Show HN: An AI agent and interface that maps your chat, designed for deep dives

https://www.proread.ai/
2•kanodiaashu•1h ago•0 comments

The Dartboard Sequence

https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath025.htm
3•indigodaddy•1h ago•0 comments

How the Kyiv Independent reached 20k paying members – with no paywall

https://www.niemanlab.org/2025/07/how-kyiv-independent-reached-20000-paying-members-with-no-paywall/
5•dotcoma•1h ago•0 comments

Paradise Lost

https://alexandermigdal.com/paradise-lost/
11•adharmad•1h ago•3 comments

Show HN: Host Claude Artifacts on your own domain

https://artifact.ninja
2•ed•1h ago•1 comments

An aging population can be positive for the economy

https://www.marcus.com/us/en/resources/heard-at-gs/how-an-aging-population-can-be-positive-for-the-economy
2•andsoitis•1h ago•0 comments

Liberals are less willing to buy Teslas than other electric vehicles

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-025-05242-8
4•bookmtn•1h ago•3 comments

Vintage base ball: the charm of a sport where the 1860s never ended

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jul/17/vintage-base-ball-the-charm-of-a-sport-where-the-1860s-never-ended
2•PaulHoule•1h ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

Why do some AI chatbot subscriptions cost more than $200?

https://www.wired.com/story/seriously-why-do-some-ai-chatbot-subscriptions-cost-more-than-200/
38•isaacfrond•17h ago

Comments

joos3•17h ago
https://archive.is/XYUmD
hermitcrab•17h ago
Companies generally charge whatever price they think will optimize their profit. This quite unrelated to what the service costs to run.
SideburnsOfDoom•16h ago
> This price is quite unrelated to what the service costs to run.

Well. It's noteworthy when the price is lower than the cost.

It's not that rare. But it is noteworthy, as it's not sustainable.

hermitcrab•16h ago
The optimal price is the optimal price, regardless of what the service costs to run.

But, yes, if the cost to run the service is X and the optimal price is <X, you have a problem.

falcor84•16h ago
The joke used to go "We lose money on every sale, but we make it up in volume”, but funnily enough, this financial logic adds up when you make it up with investor money.
skeezyboy•15h ago
>The optimal price is the optimal price, regardless of what the service costs to run.

such insight

shalmanese•15h ago
No it’s not. Assume there is demand for 5000 units at $1 and 2000 units at $2. If it cost $0 to produce, then the profit is $5000/$4000 so you should price at $1. If it cost 90c to produce, then the profit is $500/$2200 so you should price at $2.
hermitcrab•15h ago
I was talking about software (the OP example), where there is a big fixed cost and (generally) a very low per unit cost. But I probably should have made that clearer. Things do indeed change when you have a significant per unit cost (e.g. manufactured goods).
dotancohen•11h ago
The per unit cost here is electricity. Those GPUs suck down enough during inference that it is not negligible.
hermitcrab•10h ago
Depends on the type of software. Some software have significant support costs.
SideburnsOfDoom•6h ago
AWS or Azure do charge per-usage, but not in line with usage of electricity. They're well above that.
shalmanese•5m ago
Except that AI companies have different unit economics from SaaS businesses, requiring a rethinking of fundamentals, as laid out in this a16z post: https://a16z.com/the-new-business-of-ai-and-how-its-differen...
4gotunameagain•16h ago
Is it that noteworthy ? That has been the entire silicon valley playbook for the past.. decade ?

Grow at all cost with VC money, grab the market by offering unsustainably cheap prices, and when you have a monopoly, offer a slightly better or slightly worse version of the previous service (but hey, with an app that runs react!), at a slightly higher or same as before price (turns out profitability is important!), with much much worse working conditions for everyone involved (VC needs their money back, has to come from somewhere!)

Then look around confused when there is insane wealth inequality and social unrest.

skeezyboy•15h ago
money well spent if you arks me
meinersbur•15h ago
There is also market separation in play: For the base service you only charge cost+small margin. For higher service levels you charge higher profit margins even though the additional service does not cost that much more to provide.

Best example: flight seats. Economy class fills the plane, but business and first class are the money makers [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc

HarHarVeryFunny•12h ago
Sure, and it wouldn't be surprising to see different pricing for realtime AI API usage vs slower (overnight, etc) response times (to fill up the seats and keep the hardware occupied). It remains to be seen how the dynamics of this works out though - function of cost of increasing capacity vs customer demand at various price points and service levels.

LLM pricing seems to still very much be up in the air though - models getting more efficient, serving hardware getting more efficient, use cases evolving, and not all providers operating with same business model (e.g. Meta, maybe China).

hermitcrab•12h ago
Yes, you see this all over the place. For example, Home and Professional versions of software products:

https://successfulsoftware.net/2013/02/28/how-i-increased-sa...

HarHarVeryFunny•12h ago
Sure, and early adopters can usually expect to pay more.
ChrisMarshallNY•17h ago
Well, since I know that a lot of people are actually creating businesses, based on chatbots, $200/month is probably an acceptable price.

From the article, it says that it’s a money loser, though, so I suspect that a lot of AI-based businesses run just fine, from the lower-tier price point.

They might want to consider adding an “in-between” pricing tier.

scarface_74•14h ago
Are they creating profitable businesses?
ChrisMarshallNY•13h ago
I suspect so, but probably because they run on the $20/month subscription, and charge a lot more than that.
jaggs•17h ago
Because they offer $200 worth of value?
bugtodiffer•14h ago
Price and value are far from the same thing
jaggs•14h ago
Indeed. But value is a subjective matter, and if a company believes they're receiving the requisite amount of value from their expenditure, then that's all that matters really isn't it?
bertil•17h ago
I sell Saas software that’s easily six figures per month. I think there’s a confusion between professional prices are “Pro“ as the upper tier of individual service.
andyjensen•16h ago
I also sell Saas software however in the seven figures per month range. But besides that I agree with you.
tempfile•16h ago
What is the point of this comment? Just to brag?
deipol•15h ago
Just waiting for Bezos to jump on to that one and end it.
pulse7•16h ago
Because there are customers willing to pay $200/month and more...
thyristan•15h ago
Well, let's do some order-of-magnitude calculations: A single 1kW B200 GPU will set you back $50k, and as NVIDIA claims[0] can do 125 tokens per second with LLama4. Let's imagine you can use it for 36 months, at a DC, cooling and electricity price of 20 cents per kWh. That's $4.3E-6 per token for the card and $4E-7 per token for DC and power, together $4.7E-6 per token.

Let's say you are a power user, so your queries and responses are complex and numerous, say 1000 tokens per query+response and 1 query every 10 minutes of an 8h workday. That's 48k tokens per workday, at 20 workdays per month that's 960k tokens per month.

So the cost (not sales price!) for those 960k tokens (roughly 1M) a month should be $4.5

Now you can go over the numbers again and think about where they might be wrong: Maybe a typical query is more than 1000 tokens. Maybe power users issue more queries. You might very well multiply by a factor of 10 here. Nvidia getting more greedy for new GPUs? Add 50%. Data center and power cost too conservative, network and storage also important? Add 50%. 3 years of use for a GPU too long, because the field is very quickly adapting ever larger models? Add 50%. Usage factor not 100%, but lower, say a more realistic 50%? Double the cost. Llama4 not good enough, need a more advanced model? May produce a lot less tokens per GPU-hour, but numbers are hard to come by.

With that, it's easy to imagine that one might still loose money at $200 per month.

To compare, Azure sells OpenAI models in 1M token batches that can easily be compared to the above monthly cost.

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/blackwell-breaks-the-1000-...

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/cognitive-...

piva00•15h ago
There's also the training costs, which are a massive capital investment, that need to be spread over all subscribers. Depends on training schedule as well, for each training window the costs of it need to be spread over subscribers during that window.

It's good it scales down with a higher number of paying subscriptions (each pays a smaller share of training costs).

supermatt•15h ago
> NVIDIA claims[0] can do 125 tokens per second

The claim is per user. With batching, it is MUCH higher (72x)

thyristan•12h ago
I'm not so sure there. The factor of 72 is accidentially also the number of GPUs in a full GB200 DGX rack[0]. The phrasing "and it reaches 72,000 TPS/server at our highest throughput configuration" also hints at something being fishy here. They carefully use the phrases "node" earlier, and "server" later, without getting specific by what they mean a "server" to be. Also, for that 72000 figure, there is no mention of batching at all.

The very short article [2] linked in [0] which is supposed to be the independent source of those numbers also doesn't specify any details to that effect.

In general, I've learned to treat Nvidia numbers very carefully. They are well-known for misrepresenting apples-to-orange-elefants figures such as comparing FP16, FP8 or FP4 FLOPS, thereby grossly overstating the performance advantages of their new architectures[3].

[0] https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/blackwell-breaks-the-1000-...

[1] > NVIDIA DGX™ GB200 is purpose-built for training and inferencing trillion-parameter generative AI models. Designed as a rack-scale solution, each liquid-cooled rack features 36 NVIDIA GB200 Grace Blackwell Superchips—–36 NVIDIA Grace CPUs and 72 Blackwell GPUs

https://www.nvidia.com/en-eu/data-center/dgx-gb200/

[2] https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7331470...

[3] https://dev.to/maximsaplin/nvidias-1000x-performance-boost-c...

supermatt•10h ago
> The factor of 72 is accidentially also the number of GPUs in a full GB200 DGX rack

Sure, but in the article it is already mentioned as 1000 TPS/User for an 8 GPU node, and the rack contains 9 nodes - i.e. 9x more GPUs, not 72x - so the 72000 TPS/Server simply being a multiple of 72 seems like a red herring.

But yeah, I agree that 72x seems high - although only 9x seems low given vLLM showing over 20x speedups with continuous batching. I guess there are a lot of variables.

jjmarr•13h ago
You're not factoring the input tokens into the equation, which is 90% of the price with a tool like Cline.

My queries are like 30,000 tokens input for 50 tokens output

thyristan•13h ago
I didn't really distinguish between those token types, since I didn't want to complicate the calculation too much. But yes, you are right, there is a large difference between input and output tokens.
jjmarr•5h ago
Input management is the biggest difference between monthly plans like Copilot and pay-per-use like Cline. Monthly plans hide the input from the user and try to minimize it while pay-per-use plans visibly use the full context window.

Mentally modelling the pricing as being determined by output doesn't match reality in my experience.

It's also fundamentally different economics since input is gated by VRAM capacity while output is gated by compute.

skeezyboy•15h ago
the technology is nascent and takes kilowatts of power to run. it doesnt look like there are any more fundamental breakthroughs coming either, and we can now only hope for moores law pace improvements until someone comes up with a better trick than the one LLMs are using
__loam•15h ago
Add it to the pile with crypto of software with an enormous cost to run and questionable utility when we're supposed to be in the middle of a climate crisis.
glimshe•15h ago
Calling ChatGPT a "chat bot" in 2025 isn't technically incorrect but it is like calling a male human assistant a "chat guy".

It costs $200 because the chatty little bot knows a surprising number of things amazingly well, and does decent work pretty darn fast.

7bit•15h ago
It costs $200 dollar because you need probably 50 cents to cover it's costs, and because people are happy to pay 199.50 for the value it provides.

Whether that value is worth the money is a different discussion, that is rarely held with big tech offerings.

poisonborz•14h ago
> probably 50 cents to cover it's costs

Right now it costs absolutely more than the subscription price

bugtodiffer•14h ago
It's trained on or collective data, it should be owned collectively. Wasn't ChatGPT a non-profit once?
scarface_74•14h ago
Sure the data is out there, if you have billions of dollars you can set up your own data center, gather the same data, hire the engineers and pay the networking inference costs and make it free to everyone.

If it had stayed a non profit, would people have donated enough to keep it in business? Enough people aren’t willing to donate to keep a browser maker in business.

lifestyleguru•15h ago
Enterprise and public administrations are showering with money everything AI. AI it's this the new COVID. Why a single surgical face mask cost $5 in 2021?
poulpy123•14h ago
It cost 200$ because they didn't pay for the terabytes of data try trained on their model
desktopninja•13h ago
I can't readily find the HN post but the math posted was solething like 'Each prompt costs a bottle of water'. Now think about the logistics required to get that amount of water. AI usage currently does not scale well.
add-sub-mul-div•13h ago
And we don't even know how high the pricing will get once they're out of the competitive acquiring customers phase and into the steady state dependent customers phase.
HarHarVeryFunny•12h ago
I assume that over time pricing will converge to cost of service provision plus a reasonable (50%?) profit margin. As long as the profit margin remains high then it encourages more competition.

Of course there is a large cost in building a SOTA model in the first place, maybe building your own datacenter(s) for inference too, but compare to something like semiconductor manufacturing where upfront costs are also very high, yet profit margins still reasonable, e.g. ~40% for TSMC who make chips for NVIDIA, AMD, Apple ... As long as there is a possibility of competition (primarily Samsung in this case), then profit margins will be held in check.

Spivak•13h ago
Why is no one in this thread saying the real reason—because it's meant for business customers who are using LLMs in a professional context sending sometimes five figures of tokens per prompt for 8 hours a day every day. And while business users are not particularly price sensitive they also don't want to get a surprise huge bill that you could get with usage based pricing.