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Genetic correlates of social stratification in Great Britain (2019) [pdf]

https://research.vu.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/127420931/Genetic_correlates_of_social_stratification_in_Great_Britain.pdf
35•djoldman•2h ago

Comments

djoldman•2h ago
Abstract

> ...Here we investigate the geographic clustering of common genetic variants that influence complex traits in a sample of ~450,000 individuals from Great Britain.... The level of geographic clustering is correlated with genetic associations between complex traits and regional measures of SES, health and cultural outcomes. Our results are consistent with the hypothesis that social stratification leaves visible marks in geographic arrangements of common allele frequencies and gene–environment correlations.

api•1h ago
Social stratification affects who people choose to have children with, with people usually preferring and/or being restricted to their own strata. Seems obvious this would leave artifacts in the genome similar to geographic isolation of different groups.

I've also seen papers that talk about the fingerprint of past wars, genocides, and migrations on the genome.

mannykannot•1h ago
Agreed, but this puts numbers on it.
chiffre01•1h ago
TLDR:

This study analyzed genetic data from ~450,000 British individuals and found that genetic variants associated with traits like educational attainment, personality, and health are geographically clustered across Great Britain, with the strongest clustering seen for education-related genes. The researchers discovered that people with genetic predispositions for higher educational attainment tend to migrate away from economically disadvantaged areas (like former coal mining regions), while those with lower genetic predispositions are more likely to remain in or move to these areas. This migration pattern based on socioeconomic factors has created visible geographic clustering of trait-associated genes that correlates with regional differences in education, health, income, and even political voting patterns - essentially showing how social stratification leaves genetic "footprints" on the geographic landscape.

IncreasePosts•49m ago
So, "brain drain" is real?

There are "genetic predispositions" to higher learning? Don't tell the eugenicists that...

gef•1h ago
Related commentary on societal and genetic interplay https://archive.vn/wSqd8
namenotrequired•1h ago
(2019)
HPsquared•1h ago
Related is how different social classes literally talk differently. People learn to speak from their relatives.

Before DNA analysis, anthropologists used language patterns as a signal of genetic relatedness.

tjpnz•38m ago
There's an old documentary series from the UK where they sent kids from disadvantaged areas to the same schools as the wealthy. Took them all of a couple of months to pick it up and it would work in reverse too.
dash2•51m ago
Author here. Not sure why this turned up on HN today, but feel free to ask questions.
usgroup•40m ago
Does the paper claim that genetics somehow drives geographic clustering? E.g. due to emigration of those carrying certain phenotypes?
dash2•19m ago
I think the causality is more the other way round. Originally our title was "genetic consequences..." but we were asked to change it. If you look at the part of the paper with coalfields, UK coalfields were laid down about a million years ago, before humans ever came to the area. So that was, loosely speaking, an "instrument" for an environmental variation that might then lead to genetic variation (at area level!)

But yes the key message is, there is geographic clustering at genetic level.

timmg•36m ago
I’ve been curious, for a while, about how our genes affect outcomes. There are kinda two extremes “blank-slate-ism” and “genetic-determinism”. I assume it is always some combination, with a lean in one direction or another.

I know the discussions are politically fraught. But if I understand the summary, your findings lean toward the determinism side. Is that fair? How do you think of the dichotomy? Thanks!

dash2•21m ago
> But if I understand the summary, your findings lean toward the determinism side.

Absolutely not. I don't think any serious geneticist is a genetic determinist, in fact it's hard to even know what that means... DNA without an appropriate environment is nothing but a long stringy molecule!

In fact, the main impact of this paper was to help make geneticists aware that genes are confounded with geographic environments. That (plus much other research!) is one reason why researchers are now putting a lot of emphasis on family-based designs. In those, you can get truly causal estimates of the effect of a genetic variant or of a whole polygenic score, due to the "lottery of meiosis" that randomly give you genes from either your mum or dad.

Now you could equally argue that the paper shows geographic environments are confounded with genes. That's true too, though sadly a lot of social science still proceeds as if it wasn't the case.

arethuza•32m ago
Some of the maps have places like Scotland and Wales showing up quite clearly - do you think that is real or an artefact of how the data was collected?
dash2•12m ago
You mean the principal components of the genetic data? That's probably real. It's well known that they cluster geographically, just because people tend to mate with other people close to them. There might also be stronger effects at borders, due to endogamy within Scots/Welsh/English in the past.

There's a famous paper where they map the first two principal components of a bunch of humans and get a map of Europe out.

michaelt•25m ago
> Individuals who leave coal mining areas carry more EA-increasing alleles on average than those in the rest of Great Britain.

To what extent can we tell this apart from the fact almost every university student leaves their hometown, to attend university?

keiferski•27m ago
It would be interesting to compare this to former communist countries. Personally I live in a modernized “commie block” style building in one such country (as a foreigner) and I very much appreciate the fact that residents come from a wide variety of social classes. There is certainly still a class system here, but it definitely is orders of magnitude less embedded than in Britain.
arethuza•17m ago
The way I look at is: almost nobody claims to be working class, there are so few actual upper class people so we are all middle class!

NB Class traditionally in the UK is not mainly about money...

keiferski•11m ago
I think this is a middle class viewpoint, actually. The actual working class people I know are not really that concerned with presenting themselves as middle class, unless they were raised middle class and don’t want to appear as having fallen into the lower class.
arethuza•8m ago
Oh yes - I wasn't being entirely serious - and of course the upper classes don't care about any of it!
Merrill•5m ago
Migration and reassortment events in the US would include depopulation of Appalachian coal fields, the migration of farm kids from rural counties as farm size increased, and core city to suburban movement in rust belt cities as manufacturing decreased.

Most of my high school mates from a rural county who went to college never returned to a rural area. Those who stayed behind were disproportionately from the lower half of the class.

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