Like much of the rest of the serious (not pure entertainment) part of the ecosystem, its importance might decline soon as AI services get better, but I have seen no signs of that yet.
It is unclear if you see it as a press-wannabe that doesn't quite live up to expectation, or if you see it as something beyond press that is meant to replace it.
I don't see HN as not living up to expectation.
I do think that it has partially replaced older media institutions in the battle for the attention of and influence on influential and informed people.
My question is tricky (in a good sense). I want to get people involved in the discussion of what the press means. What "news" means.
But, "the press" is normally considered to be content generated by people doing that for a living (albeit not necessarily a good one), and most HN contributors do other things for a living.
Perhaps I should have been more inquisitive. Would you say that HN serves the same social purpose as the press?
Now, if the question is some flavor of: Do Hacker News posts and comments enjoy First Amendment protections generally described as "freedom of the press?" Absolutely.
The press isn't a special class under 1a; "or of the press;" in the First Amendment simply means you're free to write and publish -- not just speak -- without interference from the government.
From a less legalese definition of "The Press", and a more of a social function one, what do you think? Let's assume a hypothetical scenario where censorship is not something to worry about (in this hypothetical scenario, it is not being applied and also not a general concern of the population). Down to the basics, what is supposed to be. What would be your thoughts on it?
PaulHoule•2h ago
alganet•2h ago
PaulHoule•2h ago
alganet•2h ago
In light of that interpretation, can you say the same about the press? (that it is entirely up to the reader to decide?)
PaulHoule•1h ago
The situation with the press is far worse than you think for structural reasons, it's a bit naive that you're asking this kind of question at all.
I'm old enough that I've had an experience where an "event" (French theorists would say l' événement) happens and
-- I watch it live on TV
-- I watch it again on the evening news
-- I read about it in the daily paper the next day
-- I read about it in a weekly paper (say The Economist) next week
-- I read about it in a monthly paper (say The Atlantic) next month
And then 25-30 years later a book comes out that is meticulous researched, they looked over all the primary sources, they interviewed everyone they could, etc. The picture of l' événement that I get from that book is entirely different than the picture that I recall having at the time, some of that is drift in my memories, some of that is the failure of my meaning making at the time, some of that is errors of commission, omission, connotation and denotation on the part of the media. I take the blame for my memory (although everybody's memory drifts over time), but the media + the meaning making process are fairly considered to be a system, and it doesn't work well.
To back this up
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Armies_of_the_Night
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_on_the_Campa...
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_Fictions (anything by Didion!)
-- https://www.worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/News/The-Inf... (1971 book that predicted you'd be reading the news on the WWW around 1980 or so -- the author prepared a report for the RAND corporation and was really angry and bitter that the media industry didn't want to make the investments to make it happen... and thus was the origin story of a legendary critic of the media who is more famous for https://www.amazon.com/effete-conspiracy-other-crimes-press/... and https://www.amazon.com/New-Media-Monopoly-Completely-Chapter...)
alganet•38m ago
Although a little bit more verbose, you're answer could be summed up to "You're naive and idealist, little boy" without loosing meaning. It has more words but the same amount of basic emotional architecture.
It reveals what you believe I think about the press role in society. You filled in the gaps with your imagination of what I am and popular personas.
Let's say I'm less idealistic than you imagine me to be. I could even reverse this, right? Say that you're the idealistic for believing that a new platform could avoid the mistakes of the past, but I'll only mention that in passage (I'm not assuming you're naive).
If we're all adults here, there's no reason to hide or misdirect anything. Let's consider the whole history of press then, since you came up with it. Its many turns to questionable attitude and comebacks, the many interests that might be influencing it. Do you think HN deserves to be in that same category?
I think it's an interesting question if we exclude these obvious cul de sacs ("it's about censorship", "it's about naive idealism", etc). We should not avoid it.
bell-cot•2h ago