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Fire hazard of WHY2025 badge due to 18650 Li-Ion cells

https://wiki.why2025.org/Badge/Fire_hazard
14•fjfaase•1h ago

Comments

fjfaase•1h ago
There has been some controversy surrounding the use of 18650 Li-Ion cells in the design of the WHY2025 hacker camp badge and questions have been raised whether it is safe to hand out badges to participants including children starting from age 7.
jon-wood•5m ago
Please don't post LLM summaries without any additional context. If I wanted one I'd ask my nearest LLM for it.
bravetraveler•38m ago
That's a lot of juice for a trinket. Shorted a 'mitigated' battery of these in a charger once, was enough to reconsider vaping entirely
bsder•30m ago
> The WHY2025 badge was designed to be powered by 2 Li-Ion 18650 battery cells connected in parallel.

Wait, what?

I was under the impression that Lithium batteries were really difficult to put in parallel without a LOT of engineering work.

The discharge curve for Lithium batteries is super flat. If you put them in parallel, even a small differential between the two means that one battery will completely discharge simply trying to bring the voltage of the other up to match. This is very different from the discharge curve from alkaline which has a nice slope and the batteries can equalize without burning up very much of their capacity.

These don't look like they're matched in any way. The connection between them doesn't like very big--I suspect a non-trivial voltage drop if one battery tries to empty into the other.

If you need the power, it's much better to put them in series and use a buck converter to bring the final value where you want it.

This seems more like a fundamental engineering flaw rather than a fault in the boards (although, to be fair, the creepage and clearance don't look great).

exmadscientist•25m ago
Li-Ion chemistry is pretty happy with 1S2P configurations. (That doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.) 2S1P is where the fun starts.
rollulus•20m ago
It’s what I thought as well, but I’m not too much into electronics to hold an opinion. It looks like there’s a balancing resistor between them: https://gitlab.com/why2025/team-badge/Hardware/-/blob/main/C...
eqvinox•41s ago
It doesn't matter what happens in the 10 to 90% range, if one discharges before the other, it's perfectly fine. It's not like this is an application that needs the combined current capability of both cells. What does matter is that neither cell is overcharged nor deep discharged, and the [dis]charge curve is absolutely not flat in those areas.
exmadscientist•28m ago
> The WHY2025 badge was designed to be powered by 2 Li-Ion 18650 battery cells connected in parallel. The cells provided to visitors are of the "unprotected" kind

...I am going to put on my "client-facing consultant" hat for a moment, which means skipping the expletives, and just say that not only is this a Very Bad Design, it is such a Very Bad Design that someone should really have noticed this and not let it happen.

Because this really is a Startlingly Bad Idea.

fjfaase•7m ago
An earlier design by Badge.Team [1] did not use these cells and Badge.Team (no longer associated with WHY2025) strongly advised against the use of these cells.

The earlier design has been matured into Konsool [2] and is available as Tanmatsu [3].

[1] https://badge.team/

[2] https://badge.team/docs/badges/konsool/

[3] https://nicolaielectronics.nl/tanmatsu/

slacktivism123•11m ago
What's with the mock-security-advisory with logo for the 'vulnerability' (Heartbleed, anyone?)

Why is the important safety advice buried in a bunch of interpersonal drama and administrivia?

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