There is a fascinating alternative universe where XML standards actually took hold. I've seen it in bits and pieces. It would have been beautiful.
But that universe did not happen.
Lots of "modern" tooling works around the need. For example, in a world of Docker and Kubernetes, are those standards really that important?
I would blame the adoption of containerization for the lack of interest in XML standards, but by the time containerization happened, XML had been all but abandoned.
Maybe it was the adoption of Python, whose JSON libraries are much nicer than XML. Maybe it was the fact that so few XML specs every became mainstream.
In terms of effort, there is a huge tail in XML, where you're trying to get things working, but getting little in return for that effort. XLST is supposed to be the glue that keeps it all together, but there is no "it" to keep together.
XML also does not play very nice with streaming technologies.
I suspect that eventually XML will make a comeback. Or maybe another SGML dialect. But that time is not now.
warkdarrior•28m ago
> I would blame the adoption of containerization for the lack of interest in XML standards, but by the time containerization happened, XML had been all but abandoned.
Not sure how that is true. XML is a specification for a data format, but you still need to define the schema (i.e., elements, attributes, their meaning). It's not like XML for web pages (XHTML?) could also serve as XML for Linux container descriptions or as XML for Android app manifests.
th0ma5•21m ago
I think you're getting at a very often discussed ebb and flow between being extremely controlled vs extremely flexible. XML was astounding compared to system specific proprietary systems, and then as the need for formalism grew people wanted something simpler... And now you see the same thing growing with JSON and the need for more rigor. I personally think there are many forces to all of this, just the context at the time, prevailing senses of which things are chores and which aren't, companies trying to gain advantage, but probably most importantly is that the vast majority of people have a subset of historical information about systems and computer science, myself included, yet we have to get things done.
the_mitsuhiko•19m ago
> I've seen it in bits and pieces. It would have been beautiful.
XHTML being based on XML tried to be a strict standard in a world where a non-strict standard existed and everybody became just very much aware on a daily that a non-strict standard is much easier to work with.
I think it's very hard to compete with that.
assimpleaspossi•5m ago
Sometimes it gets lost that XML is a document description language like HTML.
pyuser583•34m ago
But that universe did not happen.
Lots of "modern" tooling works around the need. For example, in a world of Docker and Kubernetes, are those standards really that important?
I would blame the adoption of containerization for the lack of interest in XML standards, but by the time containerization happened, XML had been all but abandoned.
Maybe it was the adoption of Python, whose JSON libraries are much nicer than XML. Maybe it was the fact that so few XML specs every became mainstream.
In terms of effort, there is a huge tail in XML, where you're trying to get things working, but getting little in return for that effort. XLST is supposed to be the glue that keeps it all together, but there is no "it" to keep together.
XML also does not play very nice with streaming technologies.
I suspect that eventually XML will make a comeback. Or maybe another SGML dialect. But that time is not now.
warkdarrior•28m ago
Not sure how that is true. XML is a specification for a data format, but you still need to define the schema (i.e., elements, attributes, their meaning). It's not like XML for web pages (XHTML?) could also serve as XML for Linux container descriptions or as XML for Android app manifests.
th0ma5•21m ago
the_mitsuhiko•19m ago
XHTML being based on XML tried to be a strict standard in a world where a non-strict standard existed and everybody became just very much aware on a daily that a non-strict standard is much easier to work with.
I think it's very hard to compete with that.
assimpleaspossi•5m ago