The health care system can and should be improved, but there will always be people choosing MAID regardless. We should use a different measure for how to improve healthcare, and not falsely correlate MAID as a failure metric.
Statistics Canada. Table 13-10-0392-01 Deaths and age-specific mortality rates, by selected grouped causes https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=131003...
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications...
Eugenics takes many forms—MAID is just the friendlier iteration of it.
I also had family member die recently; he was 95 years old. At 85 he said it was time to go into a home and went and did that for a few years. But at 95 he just decided he was done. He told everyone and then he just stopped eating. Within in a week he was gone.
"We should use a different measure for how to improve healthcare, and not falsely correlate MAID as a failure metric." No this is actually a perfectly legitimate question. Are people choosing to kill themselves due to a lack of available healthcare?
Is the government using assisted suicide as a mechanism to relive a overburdened medical system? Legit questions. Dont dismiss them.
I just dont know if they government should be involved with this to the point of counseling people to kill themselves. It leads to all sorts of perverse incentives.
You introduce several forms of asking "why" as a reaction to my comment, but that's exactly what I argued for: a better metric with the actual possibility of causation.
Thinking this is akin to eugenics is silly and not doing anyone any good.
Apologies for sounding like a broken record here, but do you have anything other than anecdotes to support the claim that younger disabled people are generally against MAID?
Or maybe you meant religious vs. secular people?
https://thecjn.ca/opinion/how-jewish-nursing-homes-approach-...
The author cites 5% as the “number too high” but as someone who’s had a family member who’s been through the MAiD system, Track 2 is pretty difficult to get so I would t be surprised if most of that 5% is Track 1, but we wouldn’t know from this article.
[1] https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications...
In my opinion, this drives the narrative in this article, and is at the root of why there is little stigma in Canada surrounding MAID.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications...
only 5%?
Forcing others to contribute to funding and carrying it out through taxes is not.
It should only be offered when patients ask for it. Some sick people are already depressed and feel like a burden we shouldn't put ideas in their heads.
How else is it supposed to work?
> Some sick people are already depressed and feel like a burden we shouldn't put ideas in their heads.
You sound like you think there isn't an entire system of checks and balances around this but, of course, there is.
While I think people should be free to choose, I don't know how much information hospital staff should be able to give.
Difficult.
Edit: I'm not 100% certain as to the timeline. She may have been in the hospital for 2 days.
You have to have 2 independent medical assessments at a minimum as well as written consent that is witnessed. So its not like you can just say you want to do it and then they just off you right there. She could have had all sorts of reasons for not telling anyone including her sisters. There's nothing in your anecdote that disputes she could have planned it long in advance and just not told anyone.
It seems implausible.
She lived with her sisters and while she was quite capable of many tasks, I think that long term subterfuge was beyond her. She was well into mental decline.
"You have to have 2 independent medical assessments at a minimum as well as written consent that is witnessed"
Could this not have happened at the hospital?
billy99k•1h ago
It's also a way for collapsing government-run healthcare to save money.
clipsy•1h ago
How many examples? What percentage of patients eligible for MAID receive such treatment?
flappyeagle•1h ago
TylerE•1h ago
clipsy•1h ago
giraffe_lady•1h ago
What we do have is the words of people saying they do not wish to die, but are taking MAID due to necessary supports not being offered instead. What percentage would you consider too high for that?
squigz•1h ago
But these are separate issues, no?
I mean, if we don't have MAID, the existing failings of our healthcare system won't just go away; they won't just magically get the support they need. Instead, they'll die anyway, probably in a painful way.
Of course, for this discussion to be worth anything, we'd need more details. What does "support not being offered" mean, precisely? ..How many people is this actually happening to? And no, we can't just believe accounts posted on social media. And even if we did, are we going to get the other side of the story?
clipsy•1h ago
What you do have is a handful of anecdotes, to put it in more honest terms.
What's fascinating to me is that the discussion of these anecdotes revolves around wanting to eliminate MAID rather than -- gosh, I don't know -- offering those necessary supports instead? The anecdote (in the article) about it being easier for "some people" to get MAID than to get a wheelchair makes for a great soundbite, but the people who quote it always seem more interested in eliminating MAID than in providing wheelchairs to those in need, for some odd reason.
giraffe_lady•58m ago
And now here we are. Maid is a thing, and people are being encouraged to do it while not being provided the alternatives they are asking for. And the numbers for how many are totally illegible but also somehow too low for you to be concerned with.
My activism has long been more focused on getting people the care they need than opposing maid. But regardless people still don't always get the care they need and we have maid for them instead. We said it would be like this and it is like this.
clipsy•51m ago
Without having actual data, this is nothing more than an excuse to eliminate MAID indefinitely pending an imaginary system in which no one slips through the cracks; in the meantime, you will force countless more to suffer months or years of needless agony on the off chance that one of them might be one of your anecdotes.
> And now here we are. Maid is a thing, and people are being encouraged to do it while not being provided the alternatives they are asking for. And the numbers for how many are totally illegible but also somehow too low for you to be concerned with.
The only "numbers" I get from anyone like you are a handful of anecdotes that add up to a tiny fraction of a percent of people who elect MAID, and a vanishingly small percent of people eligible for MAID. If you genuinely mean well, I want you to understand: you are being manipulated by people who will do nothing to help those in need, and on their behalf you are campaigning to immiserate thousands upon thousands every single year.
pkilgore•1h ago
lotsofpulp•1h ago
The only pushing I’m seeing is that by religious people onto non religious people, as usual.
StanislavPetrov•1h ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3AJ3W_sbI
gwerbret•1h ago
I'm not really surprised. It looks like Canada's healthcare costs are growing exponentially, and are outstripping growth in GDP. These costs are mostly driven by hospitalizations. If a government can carefully promote the message that hospitalization means suffering, suffering is hard, a life with suffering is not worth living, and that relief is quick and easy, then a route is charted to a reduction in healthcare expense. It would certainly help if the large physician organizations are on board, and the nation's major broadcasters lean into euthanasia-friendly messaging.
aceofspades19•1h ago
squigz•1h ago
I have a hard time believe things are going down like, "You have cancer. We can treat it and you'd be fine, but you know what you should do instead? Kill yourself"
On the other hand, I do believe (and want) doctors to be like, "You have cancer. We can treat it and you might get a few more months with very poor quality of life. You may wish to consider these other options"
tsol•55m ago