Ask HN: Why are so many services rejecting Google Voice numbers for signups?

13•electric_muse•5mo ago

I’ve noticed that more and more companies refuse to accept Google Voice numbers when creating accounts.

My company's main line is a Google Voice that forwards to my cell; I never give out my cell. But this is preventing me from using some services and products (Vercel, DocuSign, etc.)

I’m curious about the reasons behind this. Is it primarily technical (spam prevention, deliverability issues), business-driven (carriers pushing back on VoIP), or just an easy way to block disposable accounts? Is something more dystopian going on, like some kind of behind-the-scenes lookup of my "true" info if I provide my cell?

Also, if anyone has insight into how companies technically detect and filter VoIP numbers at scale, I’d love to understand that side too. E.g. what lookup info via Twilio causes a number to get rejected? I assume it is the 'type' from Twilio Line Type Intelligence (or equivalent)?

https://www.twilio.com/docs/lookup/v2-api/line-type-intelligence

Comments

toomuchtodo•5mo ago

Fraud potential.

electric_muse•5mo ago

of course - but aren't there valid voip users out there? or should we just consider all voip users as not worth serving?

toomuchtodo•5mo ago

I run security at a fintech, we reject voip phone numbers due to proven fraud activity. The org has made the business decision based on historical fraud data, what others do is a risk management decision. Lots of customers out there, not a lot who will leave if you reject voip numbers, in my experience. The goal is not serving as many customers as possible, it’s about operating at the intersection of risk appetite and profitability.

We can’t have nice things because of humans in the aggregate. My apologies. It’s certainly not personal.

electric_muse•5mo ago

I have a side project that uses Twilio. Probably going to have to face this dragon at some point and go down the same risk assessment.

What values for Twilio line type intel do you block? (or equivalent values if you don't use Twilio)

For example, is it just `nonFixedVoip` that should get the boot? Or are `fixedVoip` also spammy?

toomuchtodo•5mo ago

https://risk.lexisnexis.com/products/phone-intelligence

https://ekata.com/solutions/phone-intelligence-api/

electric_muse•5mo ago

Thanks! I’ll look into these. Thought it was simpler lookup of metadata, but these seem like robust offerings that make sense for even more protection.

mathiaspoint•5mo ago

We'd all be better off with no phones at all.

SilverElfin•5mo ago

What if someone wants to have different phone numbers for security or privacy purposes. What options are there that wouldn’t get caught up in this?

petralithic•5mo ago

That is a vanishingly small percentage of the market that it is not worth catering to when the vast majority of such numbers are used for fraud rather than by users who want security and privacy.

electric_muse•5mo ago

Hard-line answers like that are why we're all building our own cages from a privacy perspective.

robcohen•5mo ago

True, but the original sin was using phone numbers as proof of identity. The fundamental problem is average users cannot use passkeys, manage their own crypto keys, or understand that for identity to work, there cannot be an authority based recovery method.

The market simply does not care, and businesses are acting accordingly and picking the lowest friction option with acceptable levels of fraud.

What’s odd to me is that they dont even have a method for more advanced users to not use numbers. I think perhaps Digital Credit Union may be the only bank in the US using passkeys.

petralithic•5mo ago

I have an idea, let's just use the other number we all have, perhaps the one for social benefits?

petralithic•5mo ago

Who is "we all?" Most people outside of HN don't care.

ratelimitsteve•5mo ago

it's a calculation - how much exposure to fraud does google voice net you, and how much additional revenue. if the math maths such that supporting google voice loses money, you don't support google voice. this idea that it somehow reflects on the value or character of voip customers in general is expanding beyond the factors that actually influence the decision.

jas0n•5mo ago

Same as VPNs. Sure, there are plenty of legit reasons to use one (just line a VoIP line) but there are enough people using them for illicit reasons that companies will ban traffic.

matttproud•5mo ago

Those of us who are U.S. citizens who live outside of the U.S. suffer a LOT because growing disallowances like these.

Citizen8396•5mo ago

Sometimes you can get around this by porting a real number into Google Voice. Other companies will use APIs that will correctly identify it as a VoIP number however.

firefax•5mo ago

What'll really grind your gears is if you have a cheap MVNO like Mintsim and that too is blocked as a "prepaid" and have no landline or office phone.

LUmBULtERA•5mo ago

Wow, I have Mint and have not encountered this yet. What services have you seen block it?

firefax•5mo ago

I was applying for a job and they refused to let me enter the # as how to call me, then the mintsim acted up so I ended up using a relative's landline, which is not even a landline anymore because the copper got ripped out.

I don't recall which job used the software, but it was some type of HR software that ingested CVs and dispenses pain and/or nothing. (Dark joke).

Anyways, sorry in all seriousness but all I can say is it was HR software for a job application and that surprised me since I basically got taught it's pretty normal to list a voip # especially if you can get a cool one with some sick digits :-)

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Ask HN: Why are so many services rejecting Google Voice numbers for signups?

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