UMichigan study: EVs are cleaner than ICEs over average vehicle life

https://insideevs.com/news/770035/evs-vs-gas-emissions/

26•heresie-dabord•6h ago

Comments

aurareturn•6h ago

If everyone in a city switched to EVs, the city will be transformed in a very positive way.

When I was in Shenzhen in 2024, I think around 80% of cars are EVs (maybe 90% now?). The difference in livability is so drastic compared to when I was there in 2019.

The air quality, heat, noise are all so much better that going to any city outside of China seems like going backwards in time. It makes a huge difference in Asian cities due to the density. The difference is probably less drastic in a city like San Francisco where the ocean breeze cleans the air more frequently and it's not hot. Maybe also not as drastic in highly sparse American neighborhoods.

bell-cot•6h ago

That can work pretty well in China, where the CCP has the power to Build Stuff, at scale. Things are Different in most "1st world" nations. :(

(I'd also guess that China had pretty lax emissions regulations in prior decades, making their "before" considerably worse.)

aurareturn•6h ago

Doesn't matter if their before was worse. What's important now is that when one walks on a Shenzhen street, one does not breathe in gasoline car byproducts.

lysp•5h ago

> where the CCP has the power to Build Stuff, at scale.

Not just that, they can mandate large changes.

If you try to do that in a western country, you'll have fossil fuel lobbyists, car manufacturers and a whole range of other vested interests putting pressure on the country's government not to make that change.

dkiebd•5h ago

You forget the citizens who can't afford to change their cars. Of course a dictatorship can just say "too fucking bad".

ZeroGravitas•4h ago

EVs are cheaper to buy and cheaper to run than equivalent ICE cars in China.

dkiebd•4h ago

Which is not what I said. Buying a new car is an upfront cost that not everybody can afford to pay.

aurareturn•4h ago

Most people in China don't have cars. They use public transportation, buses, mini electric motorbikes that can be on sidewalks, and ride hailing.

So if they can't afford to switch from ICE to EV mandate, they still have options to get around. Though I think if a person had enough money to buy an ICE car, they should have enough to switch to an EV in China.

swasheck•2h ago

I don’t get the sense that this is a problem in countries where accumulation of wealth and property as a show of power and success is the ultimate goal

throwawayqqq11•4h ago

Maybe as small "ease of mind." I expect the CCP to get as corrupted as western governments, and because of a lacking democratic spirit, id bet my money on china becoming a stable dictatorship like north korea, focused on sustaining the existing power structure than wellbeing of its citizens, like the lobbies in the west do.

Democracies might be slow and misguided but in the long term, they are the best shot to correct previous mistakes.

But who knows. Chinese leadership was very smart in the past, maybe thell find a new way.

distances•2h ago

You have a very interesting view of the world if you see China currently as less corrupted than the Western democracies.

kelipso•1h ago

Haha, the evolution of these comments about China has been a source of entertainment for me.

twobitshifter•4h ago

What do Chinese EV mandates, incentives, or carbon regulations look like? I had assumed that Chinese EVs were simply less expensive than gas cars and no extra incentives were needed.

reerdna•5h ago

Same experience in Norway. 95%+ of new cars sold are electric.

I've been riding my bike to work along the same road for 15 years. I used to have to hold my breath along some sections of my ride. Now the air in the city is almost as fresh as in the countryside.

Steven420•36m ago

The problem with EVs is that they are essentially subscription cars. I don't want my car to be deprecated by a software update and I don't want a car that I can't fix myself. Not to mention all the safety problems that they have

jen20•34m ago

In that case you don't just need an ICE vehicle, you need one that hasn't been manufactured in a very long time.

Cycl0ps•32m ago

None of these are issues specific to EVs. This is more of a problem with all modern cars. Valid concerns, but they impact ICE vehicles just as much

kqr2•5h ago

Less CO2 for sure but do any of these studies also factor in increased tire dust from EVs since they are heavier and wear out tires faster?

reerdna•5h ago

Yes, but it turns out it doesn't matter much.

What _does_ matter is the huge reduction in the much more dangerous brake dust, as electric vehicles convert the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44666157

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