If (as as it is) Apple is still controlling apps via notarizarion/digitally signing apps of and recognizing developers, and if the app is developed for something that would land Apple in legal trouble (e.g. it makes it easy to freely and illegally download music and Apple also has legal contracts with record labels as they have Apple Music, and not only legal but it also affects Apple's own music revenue too) as the app has passed explicit notarization of Apple (in other words: Apple "knowlingly" allowed them and greenlighted them by notarizing the app), wouldn't it cause legal trouble for Apple?
For that, it's the logical behavior for a company like Apple to stop allowing the app.
Again, I'm not supporting it, but I can imagine where it's coming from and that makes sense from a business perspective as torrenting on mobile has almost no legal use cases. We all know you have not installed it to download your favorite Linux distro to your iPhone.
I don't know precisely where the line is between owning the literal physical atoms and not owning the literal binary blobs of software, but agree or not, it's well understood that buying the right to use software is not synonymous with owning the software. I feel like the hardware–software distinction is a difficult one to square in the context of "owning an iPhone."
Does owning the atoms of your phone entitle you to a mechanism for side-loading your own operating system binaries? I think so. If you buy hardware, there should be a reasonable mechanism for wholesale replacing the supplied operating system software with any alternative you like. Should Apple be required to document how any of hardware works? On that I'm ambivalent but I lean towards yes. But as for how iOS works, I personally think that's regrettably out of scope, because owning the hardware isn't the same as owning the software.
2. Apple's obligations under law supersede their agreements with any record labels.
Maybe the first time you chain a man to a tree, you can plead ignorance, that you didn't know wolves would come eat him at night. But by the 100th time, you're as guilty as the wolves.
[1] Apple pulls app used to track Hong Kong police, Cook defends move - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-apple-i...
[2] Apple removes nearly 100 VPNs used by Russians to bypass censorship - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41712728
[3] Apple's Cooperation with Authoritarian Governments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26644216
It also almost certainly doesn't so obligate them. They aren't acting as an intermediary, they are just incidentally signing the app. The app signing certifies in the first place that they checked the documents of the app devs, and in the second place that they haven't decided to remove the app. But removing the app is an action, not an inaction, they can't be compelled to take it. It would be like the record label saying I had to stop a bootlegger I happened to observe while I was out for a walk.
What is interesting is that it's Apple enforcing these sanctions, rather than AltStore.
The amount of control that Apple exercises over these alternative app stores, really does seem to be against the spirit of the DMA.
[0]: https://github.com/XITRIX/iTorrent/issues/401#issuecomment-3...
Do the sanctions applicable in 2025 apply even to EU residents of Russian nationality or origin without such an exemption, or is this person covered by more narrow sanctions like one which name him individually, or is Apple going beyond the sanctions rules here for a store they don’t even operate?
Edit: reading the linked GitHub discussion more closely, it seems that he expects to benefit from the same exemption as I was describing, with the problem being twofold: one, the developer had neglected to update his personal info in Apple’s dev portal - not Apple’s fault, at least assuming that sanctions enforcement is their job at all in this scenario. But two, Apple has taken a long time to react to this guy providing proof of his Maltese residence, so that’s on them for being an unresponsive bottleneck.
Also for some reason on App Store Connect, Apple is asking for a country of birth, not citizenship so with that alone, it’s unclear to me how can they make a determination at all.
Once again, our random spawn point (of which we have no control) is interfering with what we can and can’t do in life. Oh and Apple totally not getting how people live and move in the EU.
It's not random.
This is how wartime works.
Someone I know has Maltese citizenship. From the stories they've told, the unresponsive party might not be Apple.
(At one point, my friend had to show up at the Maltese immigration office in person to get them to respond to an inquiry.)
If Apple was banning apps from alt stores but keeping them listed in their own store, then it would be a legal issue.
I personally I think it defeats the purpose as well, but I'm more concerned with the right for people to do what they wish with their own device. These antitrust court cases can get pretty specific with what they are addressing.
Google can and will do exactly the same thing for Android.
My fav App Store on a fresh Android is Chrome, because you can use Chrome to install any other app store, or any app directly from any website.
On iOS, there's no such alternative.
In fact, on iOS, you cannot install ANY app at all until you login into an Apple Account. In fact, even some pre-installed premium apps (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) on iOS cannot be used before you login into an Apple Account.
By comparison, Chrome lets you install any app from any website without providing any identifying information, preserving you privacy. It's very easy to dismiss the login screens when setting up a new Android device, too; something that Apple also makes far more difficult on iOS.
Part of the big success of sideloading is that few people are doing it in the US/EU, so the attack surface is smaller as a result.
What do
When it comes to application distribution, all of Apple's courage immediately disappears. They could say "We don't sign or control apps distributed through third party app stores, that's out of our hands, so we cannot respond to this government request". But, they chose not to. It was a choice, and Tim Cook chose an ugly, dishonorable, cowardly path.
Remember, Apple is the same company that cooperated with the NSA to secretly log and feed user data to the NSA starting back in 2012, as revealed by Snowden's heroic disclosure of the PRISM program (which was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge).
Apple's privacy-protecting image is nothing more than marketing.
On iOS, you cannot install any apps without an Apple Account, and even some preinstalled apps (like Pages, Numbers, Keynote, GarageBand, iMovie) cannot be used before you assign them to an Apple Account.
On Android, you can install any app from any third-party store without having any accounts. There's a store called Aurora Store that even lets you install apps from Google's Play Store without an account as well, so, you can even install all the mainstream apps, all without any accounts.
I thought Google recently announced changes to this requiring a developer account to side load.
Hopefully, they'll see just how ineffective their measures are, and abandon before applying the plans to the rest of the world.
Meanwhile, they protect vast amounts of your data with encryption, especially if you opt in to the most protection.
I don't have any wish to promote Apple, but those are not comparable. Even though I have hated Apple's closed App Store policy.
I do not get the impression that they just forgot and stopped being traitors.
Apple put in functionality that makes it impossible for them to unlock phones and added additional controls to make brute forcing infeasible. The fight was fought, they had it out in court, and it's done.
If that wasn't true, literally all iPhones would be backdoored by the Russians and Chinese lol. Law enforcement is utterly incompetent when it comes to technology, you think they wouldn't immediately leak keys or access?
Was that the right trade-off? I’m not sure, but AFAIK, they aren’t allowed to add alarming warnings when users add alternative stores, so they can’t put up signs “you’re leaving the safe area”, so I can see why they made this choice.
This feature is part of antivirus solutions for ages.
Just now: I open Altstore, see an ad for the Epic Games Store, I tap it, the install button at the top sends you in a loop back to the same page, nothing happens. Oh, there’s another button (lower on the "page"): Install on iPhone or iPad, I tap that, then another button, Install. I tap it. New screen: Open the Epic Games Store on your home screen. Except that there is no Epic Games Store anywhere on my device.
And that’s basically all my experiences with Altstore.
The idea is really nice, indeed, which is why I paid for it immediately (just 1-2 euros or so I believe) but I never got anything out of it, ah well.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45040064
Apple revokes EU distribution rights for an app on the Alt Store
charcircuit•4h ago
ronsor•4h ago
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ronsor•3h ago
charcircuit•3h ago
Phones are not designed to be a specialized tool of a field. They are gadgets designed for a general audience of billions of people.
>For some reason, technology has ended up different
Because with computers there is a lot of freedom in how things can be made to work without adding extra cost to the product. They can be designed to be user friendly.
debazel•1h ago
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