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Unix Conspiracy (1991)

http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/U/Unix-conspiracy.html
10•gjsman-1000•2h ago

Comments

linguae•3h ago
Reminds me of this classic I’ve first read many years ago: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/unix-hoax.html

In all seriousness, I have a high respect for Unix and Unix-like systems, particularly FOSS implementations like Linux and FreeBSD. When I first started using Linux in 2004 as a high schooler who grew up on Windows and who used classic Macs in elementary school, the power of the Unix command line and the vast selection of professional-grade software that was available for free, and legally with the source code, too, was mind-blowing. Not too long after that, I started learning about the history of Unix and about its design philosophy. I had a new dream: I wanted to become a computer scientist just like Ken Thompson or Dennis Ritchie working for a place like Bell Labs, or become a professor and lead research projects like the BSDs back when Berkeley had the CSRG. Downloading and using Linux in 11th grade pushed me away from my alternative thoughts of majoring in linguistics, mathematics, or city planning.

Sometime in graduate school I started paying more attention to the Xerox PARC legacy of the Mac, and I started realizing that perhaps Unix was not the pinnacle of operating systems design. I got bitten by the Lisp and Smalltalk bugs, and later I got bitten by the statically-typed functional programming bug (think Haskell and ML).

These days my conception of a dream operating system is basically an alternative 1990s universe where somehow the grander visions of some Apple researchers and engineers working on Lisp (e.g., Newton’s planned Lisp OS, Dylan, SK8) came to fruition, complete with Apple’s then-devotion to usability. The classic Macintosh interface and UI guidelines combined with a Lisp substrate that enabled composition and malleability would have knocked the socks off of NeXTstep, and I say this as a big fan of NeXT and Jobs-era Mac OS X. This is my dream OS for workstation-class personal computing.

With that said, I have immense respect for Unix, as well as its official successor, Plan 9.

rjsw•1h ago
Your dream did happen, Interface Builder on NeXT evolved from a Lisp application on classic Macintosh [1], I have a copy of a paper on SOS Interface.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Hullot

anyfoo•1h ago
> Sometime in graduate school I started paying more attention to the Xerox PARC legacy of the Mac, and I started realizing that perhaps Unix was not the pinnacle of operating systems design.

For me, that watershed moment came when I looked at IBM's AS/400, known today as "IBM i". Despite having used computers since the 80s, and Unix/Linux since about the mid-90s, only much later AS/400 made me realize how extremely unixoid almost every OS I know is (well, every OS I knew after the 8 bit micro era or so). Just like you, it also made me realize how UNIX maybe isn't the answer to all, and that it's maybe not such a good thing that we've pretty much settled on it.

I've heard that apparently MULTICS, one of UNIX's major influences, gives people a similar impression when they revisit it nowadays, and realize how advanced it was. I personally have not looked into it yet.

(The other OS that expanded my horizon on how different OSes can be from what I know is MVS on IBM mainframes, but unlike AS/400, not really on a necessarily good way.)

floren•1h ago
> made me realize how extremely unixoid almost every OS I know is

It's a bit disappointing that every time somebody decides to write their own kernel, the first thing they do is implement some subset of the POSIX spec.

anyfoo•1h ago
Indeed. But to be fair, in today's world it is not only somewhat hard to imagine an OS that does not rely on things such as a filesystem with opaque binary files, directories, and hierarchical paths connecting these, but in order to properly communicate with the "outside world" you more or less have to have those things. Even AS/400 / IBM i added IFS, which is basically a bolted on hierarchical filesystem, to their system a long time ago by now.

Still sad that it has to be that way. I've long come off of thinking "everything is a file", and a file then just being a binary blob, is a good thing. (That's not even talking about other concepts from Unix we take for fully granted yet.)

linguae•51m ago
Indeed. This reminds me of Rob Pike’s famous 2000 polemic “Systems Software Research is Irrelevant,” where he laments the decline in innovative operating system designs of the era.

Additionally, we need to consider the career incentive structures of researchers, whether they are in industry, academia, or some other institution. Writing an operating system is difficult and laborious, and coming up with innovative interfaces and subsystems is even more difficult. When a researcher’s boss in industry is demanding research results that are productizable, or when a researcher’s tenure committee at a university is demanding “impact” measured by publications, grants, and awards, it’s riskier betting a career on experimental systems design that could take a few person-years to implement and may not pan out (as research is inherently risky) versus pursuing less-ambitious lines of research.

It’s hard for a company to turn its back on compatibility with standards, and it’s hard for academic researchers to pursue “out-there” ideas in operating systems in a “publish-or-perish” world, especially when implementing those ideas is labor-intensive.

The widespread availability of Unix, from a source-available proprietary system with generous licensing costs to universities back in the 1970s, to the birth of FOSS clones and derivatives such as Linux and the BSDs, has made it much easier for CS researchers to not need to reinvent the OS wheel, instead focusing on narrower subsystems, but at the cost of discouraging research that could very well lead to the discovery of whole new ways of carrying things, metaphorically speaking. Sometimes reinventing the wheel is a good thing.

I still dream, though, of writing my own operating system in my spare time. Thankfully as a community college professor I have no publication pressures, and I get three months off per year to do whatever I want, so….

anyfoo•40m ago
For sure. Also, we simply live in a world where computers, and their operating systems, are giant, impossibly complex structures. No single person can even fully know in all detail even what you would relatively consider a small part of neither any commercial computer, nor their operating system. In my job, I work with 15000 (!) page specifications, and that's only concerning one part of very many.

That pretty much guarantees that change can only be incremental.

noone_youknow•1h ago
> It's a bit disappointing that every time somebody decides to write their own kernel, the first thing they do is implement some subset of the POSIX spec.

Well, not quite _every_ time. For example, I’m deliberately not doing POSIX with my latest one[0], so I can be a bit more experimental.

[0] https://github.com/roscopeco/anos

anyfoo•38m ago
Kudos for doing so! This is seriously a great endeavor. Regarding its relation to UNIX concepts, I do spot a classical hierarchical file system there, though. ;) Is it only an "add-on" (similar to IFS on IBM i), or is it fundamental?
sroerick•1h ago
I've read that in AS/400, everything is an object, rather than a file. Could you expand on that at all?
anyfoo•27m ago
Honestly, it's a bit much for a single HN comment. But I've look around, and I found this, which upon first glance gives a good (and not too long) overview: http://www.varietysoftworks.com/jbaldwin/Education/single-le...

Crucially, it also describes the "single level store" that everything lives in. In short, the boundary between "main memory" or "hard disk" or other things is abstracted away, and you just have pointers to "things" instead. While in UNIX accessing some piece of main memory is fundamentally different from, say, opening a file.

Even though UNIX has a little bit of the opposite concept of trying -- but in my mind failing -- to represent as much as it can as a "file".

kjellsbells•3m ago
It's quite tricky to explain, but yes, everything in AS/400 is an object. There is also the notion of a context, called a library, that these files-as-objects exist in. AS/400 files very frequently act in a way that today we would describe as databases (like sqlite files, say) and the library context guides how information ('records') in them is returned, eg FIFO, LIFO, etc.

I think the best explanation is contained in this very old porting guide from IBM that explains how to move UNIX programs to AS/400. It's written in a remarkably un-IBM fashion, not at all straitlaced.

https://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/sg244438.pdf

For any experts out there, please correct me, it's been 30 years...

dardeaup•16m ago
If you could wave a magic wand and suddenly all Unix systems (and variants such as Linux) could be instantly changed to suit your wishes, what would you wish for?

For me, it would be:

    - removal of 'root' user and replaced with various predefined sysadmin groups and standardized audit logs for each group
    - get a batch processing system (similar in spirit to z/OS but without JCL). It should allow you to see a list of the jobs you've submitted, cancel individual jobs, re-order existing jobs that haven't started, have a standard place to see stdout/stderr logs.
    - get something like AIX's smit/smitty for sysadmin tasks
    - have either ZFS built-in or something with equivalent functionality
    - sensible and easy-to-use containerized/jailing capabilities
    - built-in support for append-only file permissions
    - ability to quickly/easily adjust priorities for all processes belonging to a user
    - ability to quickly/easily cap a user's processes cpu/ram resources (without having to use a container/jail)
tomhow•3h ago
The origin of this is the Jargon File [1] v. 2.3.1, published on 3 Jan 1991: http://www.catb.org/jargon/oldversions/jarg231.txt

This exact version of it was first published in v. 4.0.0, on 24 Jul 1996: http://www.catb.org/jargon/oldversions/jarg400.txt

That was then published as The New Hacker's Dictionary, third edition, 1996: https://books.google.com.vc/books?id=g80P_4v4QbIC&printsec=f...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon_File

pipeline_peak•1h ago
I’ve read (probably on Wikipedia) that the popularity of Unix was to blame by few for the stagnancy in OS research.

To be fair, it’s not a stretch to suspect a company wants its competitors to be dependent on their product. The theory of planned security vulnerabilities sounds off the plot however.

anyfoo•34m ago
As elaborated in another comment, I am not a fan of UNIX having won (anymore), but I find this "conspiracy" ridiculous. It's obvious to me that UNIX was seen as a good idea by many people, and that it did make a lot of sense compared to many alternatives, especially considering the constraints of computers and computing environments at the time.
1oooqooq•1h ago
amazing how that website manages to render white text on a light image and show empty text on Firefox reader feature. i don't think I've seen someone able to break so many standards :)
lupusreal•1h ago
This is bullshit, but I believe it.
Ericson2314•59m ago
Worse is better is viral!

(This conspiracy may not be factually true, but it is teleologically true)

userbinator•58m ago
relatively unreliable and insecure (so as to require continuing upgrades

That seems more applicable to Windows these days. If you graph CVEs vs. version, there is an interesting trend.

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