For example, their part to upgrade to an Ryzen HX 370 costs $1050.[0]
You can find a brand new laptop with an Ryzen HX 370, 3k 120hz OLED display, 32GB of RAM, 1TB drive for $1050 on sale.[0]
Framework sell their 16" laptop with the RTX 5070 for $2,449.00. Meanwhile, you can get the same CPU, display, GPU for half the price at $1200 on sale.[2]
Upgrading the main board is the last thing on my list for considering framework.
Being able to easily make small swaps like ports/batteries/RAM/etc is a much bigger value prop, along with supporting the growth of an ecosystem that still doesn’t have enough scale to get pricing down.
If you don’t value any of that, then yeah, don’t buy a framework. But to say it “makes no sense” is a bit grandiose.
samtheDamned•4mo ago
Emphasizing this, the biggest pain point for me with previous laptops I've used isn't battery or performance decreasing. It's the little bits that really hurt: A broken hinge, a dying keyboard, or a broken charging port.
I'm lucky that the keyboard incident happened on a recent enough dell that parts weren't the hardest to find, though I basically had to disassemble the entire laptop and rebuild it on a new keyboard.
The broken charging port happened on an older laptop and I couldn't find any reasonable options to repair or replace the piece.
And for the hinge, a replacement hinge itself wasn't impossible to find, but finding the correct parts around it that it broke when it tore itself out of the frame (including the display) took so many purchases and returns that I was worried amazon would take action on my account.
I put a lot of value in the fact that any minor issue I may encounter will remain a minor issue. Also I appreciate the fact that if I do upgrade my framework I can put the old mainboard into a standalone case and have a relatively low power desktop to use for whatever I think up.
sekh60•4mo ago
I just bought a framework this past week largely due to the easy to replace keyboard. On my last two laptops a year after the three year warranty the keyboards started to die. So, just in case that happens again, and just In case fame.work were to go under, I bought a replacement keyboard from the get-go to store for later.
aurareturn•4mo ago
I don't know about PCs but since Apple Silicon generation of Macbooks, keyboards simply don't die.
I don't understand the need to pay premium for Framework.
aurareturn•4mo ago
I'm pretty sure you can swap batteries and RAM in many laptops that are not Framework.
So pay double the price to swap some ports? How does that make any sense?
tuckerman•4mo ago
For those exact specs the Asus you linked seems like a great deal but it also looks like it has soldered ram which could limit the useful lifespan (the FW13 has two so-dimms and officially supports up to 96 GiB of ram but on forums people have been using the new 64 GiB dimms to get 128 GiB working fine).
The linked gigabyte seems like maybe a good deal as well but that's also not the Ryzen 9, it's a 7. Some people (mine included) also have strong opinions on the look/quality of the case and their preferences might lean more towards FW than the linked gigabyte's glowing green look.
shirro•4mo ago
People base purchases on more than price. But on price you are essentially correct. They are a money pit if you want to do major upgrades on them and it is often possible to get much better value for money shopping around and this applies throughout Framework's range. Even going DIY on SSD and RAM the other components aren't cheap.
They don't have the manufacturing volumes to compete on price so they compete on appeals to sustainability, repairability etc. It is why I bought one a few years ago and I still use it but I haven't take advantage of any of the upgrades that have been available.
If some keys stop working or my screen gets cracked its my intention to replace parts myself while living in a remote area and not have to worry about keyboard being plastic welded and screens being glued.
It would have been nice to upgrade my motherboard or screen but realistically when the time comes it is going to be cheaper just to buy another laptop on sale and leave Framework behind.
aurareturn•4mo ago
They don't have the manufacturing volumes to compete on price so they compete on appeals to sustainability, repairability etc. It is why I bought one a few years ago and I still use it but I haven't take advantage of any of the upgrades that have been available.
If you buy cheap Acer laptops for $400, I believe Framework is better for sustainability.
But if you buy a Macbook, I believe Framework is worse.
shirro•4mo ago
I don't want to be locked into Apple's ecosystem so they are not an option for me. For others, Apple are in a different league to the rest of the industry with their level of product integration, design, supply chain control etc.
Entry level Apple products can overlap with Frameworks in price but are spec-wise in a very different category. This is very apparent with similarly priced plastic Framework 12 with a 13th gen i5 and entry level Macbook Air. They have hugely different build quality, performance and battery life, all wins to Apple.
A $400 laptop might be worse for sustainability but if you are buying a computer for your kids for school it still makes sense for many people to buy something cheap and cheerful and upgrade in a few years than try and buy for life, at least on the non-Apple side of things. Many people, financially, don't have a choice. Apple devices have tended to have long usable lifetimes in the past but who knows if that will continue.
I hope Framework can help change the industry but they need sustainable margins on low volume manufacturing and supporting them on their mission requires a willingness to look beyond straightforward price/performance comparisons. It is hard to make a general recommendation of Framework products but if you are like me and use Linux and value repairability I think their 13" is still a solid choice.
aurareturn•4mo ago
Macbooks tend to last forever. I've had a Macbook Air last 10+ years. I don't see why Apple Silicon Macbooks won't considering how fast they are.
Also, Macs tend to get resold over and over again so they contribute to sustainability that way.
aurareturn•4mo ago
For example, their part to upgrade to an Ryzen HX 370 costs $1050.[0]
You can find a brand new laptop with an Ryzen HX 370, 3k 120hz OLED display, 32GB of RAM, 1TB drive for $1050 on sale.[0]
Framework sell their 16" laptop with the RTX 5070 for $2,449.00. Meanwhile, you can get the same CPU, display, GPU for half the price at $1200 on sale.[2]
[0]https://frame.work/products/laptop16-mainboard-amd-ai300?v=F...
[1]https://slickdeals.net/f/18576667-asus-vivobook-s-15-15-6-3k...
[2]https://slickdeals.net/f/18592141-gigabyte-aero-x16-16-qhd-1...
comte7092•4mo ago
Being able to easily make small swaps like ports/batteries/RAM/etc is a much bigger value prop, along with supporting the growth of an ecosystem that still doesn’t have enough scale to get pricing down.
If you don’t value any of that, then yeah, don’t buy a framework. But to say it “makes no sense” is a bit grandiose.
samtheDamned•4mo ago
I'm lucky that the keyboard incident happened on a recent enough dell that parts weren't the hardest to find, though I basically had to disassemble the entire laptop and rebuild it on a new keyboard. The broken charging port happened on an older laptop and I couldn't find any reasonable options to repair or replace the piece. And for the hinge, a replacement hinge itself wasn't impossible to find, but finding the correct parts around it that it broke when it tore itself out of the frame (including the display) took so many purchases and returns that I was worried amazon would take action on my account.
I put a lot of value in the fact that any minor issue I may encounter will remain a minor issue. Also I appreciate the fact that if I do upgrade my framework I can put the old mainboard into a standalone case and have a relatively low power desktop to use for whatever I think up.
sekh60•4mo ago
aurareturn•4mo ago
I don't understand the need to pay premium for Framework.
aurareturn•4mo ago
So pay double the price to swap some ports? How does that make any sense?
tuckerman•4mo ago
The linked gigabyte seems like maybe a good deal as well but that's also not the Ryzen 9, it's a 7. Some people (mine included) also have strong opinions on the look/quality of the case and their preferences might lean more towards FW than the linked gigabyte's glowing green look.
shirro•4mo ago
They don't have the manufacturing volumes to compete on price so they compete on appeals to sustainability, repairability etc. It is why I bought one a few years ago and I still use it but I haven't take advantage of any of the upgrades that have been available.
If some keys stop working or my screen gets cracked its my intention to replace parts myself while living in a remote area and not have to worry about keyboard being plastic welded and screens being glued.
It would have been nice to upgrade my motherboard or screen but realistically when the time comes it is going to be cheaper just to buy another laptop on sale and leave Framework behind.
aurareturn•4mo ago
But if you buy a Macbook, I believe Framework is worse.
shirro•4mo ago
Entry level Apple products can overlap with Frameworks in price but are spec-wise in a very different category. This is very apparent with similarly priced plastic Framework 12 with a 13th gen i5 and entry level Macbook Air. They have hugely different build quality, performance and battery life, all wins to Apple.
A $400 laptop might be worse for sustainability but if you are buying a computer for your kids for school it still makes sense for many people to buy something cheap and cheerful and upgrade in a few years than try and buy for life, at least on the non-Apple side of things. Many people, financially, don't have a choice. Apple devices have tended to have long usable lifetimes in the past but who knows if that will continue.
I hope Framework can help change the industry but they need sustainable margins on low volume manufacturing and supporting them on their mission requires a willingness to look beyond straightforward price/performance comparisons. It is hard to make a general recommendation of Framework products but if you are like me and use Linux and value repairability I think their 13" is still a solid choice.
aurareturn•4mo ago
Also, Macs tend to get resold over and over again so they contribute to sustainability that way.