...okay, looks like there is a way but it's really convoluted and you need to basically jump-start the low voltage system (using either an ICE car or a battery pack). https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-3567D5F... That's really, really dumb.
Here's another example: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-A7A60DC...
Yes, opening the rear door in some models requires popping an unlabeled access panel in the cargo pocket.
The craziest part to me is that this isn't the evil profit maximizing à la Unsafe at Any Speed. It's simply pure designer insanity.
See the older manual here:
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/2017_2023_model3/en_us/GU...
> Only the front doors are equipped with a manual door release.
How was THAT legal? How was that ADA compliant?
So what you're actually saying is, there really isn't a (sane) way after all.
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/witness-of-triple-fatal-...
Insanity.
No. Ibelieve lots of things experts believe, often because they believe them, in fields where I have no expertise.
That being said, there are certain institutions and experts that I've found are more trustworthy than others (The Electronic Frontier Foundation for example) so I do usually trust them over the opinions of others. Basically there is a lot of nuance, never blindly trust anything.
Regarding the topic of the Tesla door handles, I've always felt uneasy regarding the safety of them.
You can always find washed up academics, ex-industry, ex-government, etc people who will reliably show up to say stuff in return for money. Lawyers do it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQxm6n7SdvE
Apparently there is a manual release lever, which this driver did not know about. But really, I think it's a bad design to have to think about a second way to open the door. When people panic, they fall back to training, and that training is just opening the door using the handle they always use.
The Model S did it better where the override is just pulling the door handle all the way out.
They're 20$ on amazon. I will admit I tried kicking the window first but then remembered I had the knife.
Thank you for the reminder. I'm glad you're safe.
Depending on the configuration of the car, if you end up in the back seat with the door closed and the child lock is set on all rear doors, it can be pretty difficult to get out.
Kind of related, Teslas (some?) don't have a manual hood release either, so firefighters' first hope is to find the guy who knows what menu on the fucking touch-screen is going to pop the hood. E.g., when making sure that the high voltage stuff can be disabled, the car won't try to leave with fire crews in the way, and so on. There are more... destructive ways to get in, and it will happen, but they could have just installed a pull cable like everyone else.
https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/angela-chao-death-texas-tesl...
> “The night was chilly and very dark, with no moon, so rather than walk, Chao got in her Tesla Model X SUV for the four-minute trip back to the house.
> The account of what happened to Angela Chao that weekend is based on interviews with people close to Chao and her family, county officials who were briefed on what happened or were there, as well as reviews of law-enforcement documents.
> Within minutes of saying her goodbyes, she called one of her friends in a panic. While making a three-point turn, she had put the car in reverse instead of drive, she said. It is a mistake she had made before with the Tesla gearshift. The car had zipped backward, tipping over an embankment and into a pond. It was sinking fast. Could they help her?
> Over the next several hours, her friends, then the ranch manager and his wife, and then paramedics, and firefighters and sheriff’s deputies rushed around and tried to break the windows, find an escape hatch or any way to get Chao out of the car. Somehow an executive who made her living on the sea was drowning in a stock pond within sight of her home.”
A team of firefighters, paramedics, and police officers couldn't find a way to break the windows on an SUV?
https://nautil.us/the-resulting-fallacy-is-ruining-your-deci...
He was involved in the US government and he shut down, his department shut down, the USAID. And that one shut-down is, according to reports I've read ... which I don't have on hand, hundreds of thousands of dead people.
I understand his argument is, in the future .. things will be better. We will be on Mars, safe from asteroids. We will have cars, safe from reckless drivers. We will have immortal brains, safe from natural degradation. We will have an electric economy, avoiding the toxic dependence on oil and gas.
Pulling back -- I wonder if there is a correlation between empowered individuals and deaths, and their whether there is a need (for humanity's sake) for group thinking and decision-making when it comes to situations that could create mass death? (To avoid mass death.)
We have a US president who (and apparently for decades past have had a vulnerable political system, regardless of Trump) is essentially destroying law and order through the unilateral illegal or provably corrupt directions that he's giving, and through his followers (Supreme Court, Congress, Senate, Executive, appointed Agency heads) who align their organizations with his retribution campaign. This is on my mind today.
So in this US presidency I see situation there is a group of people who are making these decisions. This counter-proves my hypothesis.
However, this group are following the leader and, I suppose like in Nazi Germany, where there were tons of people who were following the leadership and the ideology that made the holocaust happen and 6 million people plus dead, they aren't really thinking for themselves, it doesn't seem to me. They aren't thinking as a group. They are following.
Designers effectively said: "Lets save 0.03 on our Coefficient of Drag, add unnecessary weight of extra motors and control complexity, and make sure whenever the 12V supply is cut or a bit of ice is in the mechanism, everyone inside is trapped —— it'll look cool".
China is already looking at banning them [0] because of the difficulty they present to emergency crews trying to rescue passengers.
And while I used to admire Musk and defend him here, this now seems like just another "innovation" by a sociopath who cares only about how cool it might make him look, and nevermind the people burned to death trapped inside his cars. At least the Ford Pinto exploding gas tank debacle was for profit [1], this is just one man's ego.
[0] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a66052483/china-possible-b...
Since you're attributing the design of all Tesla features to Musk, would you compliment him on the Tesla Model 3 being reported as the "safest new car on the market," acheiving an overall EuroNCAP score of 359/400?
https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-safest-cars-on-sale-today/n...
... or would that go against the narrative?
FWIW, and for balance - I think the retracting handle design on the Model S is dangerous. I own the car and it's a nagging concern in my mind.
yes, as I mentioned, I have posted similar strong compliments/defenses of Musk in the past, including on here.
I'd also point out that while one person can drive design of the most salient features (such as a noticeably different door-handle), the entire design of a modern automobile and its systems are obviously not from only one person. I also attribute the overall requirement for high crash-test results to Musk, but this sort of anti-safety feature shows his drive is not for safety, but notoriety.
If I were in your position, I'd also actively practice with family using the alternate handles from inside so it is ingrained in your mind sufficiently to recall in an emergency; I hope no one ever needs it, but...
It's really too bad what he's changed into or shown himself to be; I used to really want to own a Tesla, now I would take or keep a free one.
And if Tesla does something good it was "obviously not from only one person"
> I have posted similar strong compliments/defenses of Musk in the past, including on here.
As have many people, who curiously seemed to change their treatment of Musk around the time of the 2024 election. Funny, that.
More importantly, the juxtaposition of the two features makes clear his motivation is primarily a collection of features that Musk thinks will make Musk seem cool, which is a very different thing than trying to make the safest cars in all respects to protect his customers.
As for when and why my opinion of Musk changed, again it changed years before 2024, and was cemented when he argued publicly with one of his software engineers and revealed a level of cluelessness showing his previous reputation as some kind of tech genius was a curated sham.
You seem to suggest it is wrong of people to reconsider their opinion of Musk around 2024 when he claims to be a "Free Speech Absolutist" yet used his ownership of the largest social media platform and his massive fortune to actively promote proto-fascists in the US and around the world to convert democracies into racist authoritarian states.
It is not wrong to shun people who work to introduce intolerance into a society — in fact, the only thing that an open tolerant society can not tolerate if it wants to survive is intolerance itself [0]. While I was not one of them, I am perfectly happy to see people changing their opinion of Musk due to his actions around 2024. If you have not, you are not looking closely enough; please do so.
I think you've said enough to prove my point.
If you can't see those authoritarian actions by the parties Musk supports, you are either willfully ignorant or just plain obtuse, or a willing authoritarian proto-fascist.
And no, your point is still wrong; there is nothing wrong with changing ones opinion of a public figure when he comes out supporting authoritarianism
You can personally like/dislike whoever you like.
But if you personally revile a man, please don't then pretend to have good faith discussions about his technical achievements.
I am merely deeply disappointed to discover he was not even close to the person I thought he was, either in technological skill or wanting to actually improve humanity.
His tech skills turn out to be largely taking credit for work of others and marketing himself as a tech 'genius', and it turns out he is more interested in implementing autocracy than in actually creating an abundant future for humanity. Even with all that wealth, he takes the easy way out. Sad, really
He was the chief product architect of Tesla's first production vehicle, and he is the chief engineer of SpaceX.
Here's what experts said about him
> "Elon and the Propulsion department are leading development of the SpaceX engines, particularly Raptor. I offer my 2 cents to help from time to time"
-- Tom Mueller, regarded as one of the foremost spacecraft propulsion experts in the world, who owns many patents for propulsion technologies.
> "Elon is brilliant. He’s involved in just about everything. He understands everything. If he asks you a question, you learn very quickly not to go give him a gut reaction.
> "He wants answers that get down to the fundamental laws of physics. One thing he understands really well is the physics of the rockets. He understands that like nobody else. The stuff I have seen him do in his head is crazy. He can get in discussions about flying a satellite and whether we can make the right orbit and deliver Dragon at the same time and solve all these equations in real time. It’s amazing to watch the amount of knowledge he has accumulated over the years."
-- Kevin Watson (developed the avionics for Falcon 9 and Dragon. He previously managed the Advanced Computer Systems and Technologies Group within the Autonomous Systems Division at NASA's Jet Propulsion laboratory.)
> “He’s obviously skilled at all those different functions, but certainly what really drives him and where his passion really is, is his role as CTO,” or chief technology officer. Basically his role as chief designer and chief engineer. That’s the part of the job that really plays to his strengths."
> "What's really remarkable to me is the breadth of his knowledge. I mean I've met a lot of super super smart people but they're usually super super smart on one thing and he's able to have conversations with our top engineers about the software, and the most arcane aspects of that and then he'll turn to our manufacturing engineers and have discussions about some really esoteric welding process for some crazy alloy and he'll just go back and forth and his ability to do that across the different technologies that go into rockets cars and everything else he does."
--Garrett Reisman, engineer and former NASA astronaut, Professor of Astronautical Engineering at University of Southern California.
> "Elon is both the Chief Executive Officer and Chief Technology Officer of SpaceX, so of course he does more than just ‘some very technical work’. He is integrally involved in the actual design and engineering of the rocket, and at least touches every other aspect of the business (but I would say the former takes up much more of his mental real estate). Elon is an engineer at heart, and that’s where and how he works best."
-- Josh Boehm, the former Head of Software Quality Assurance at SpaceX.
> "Elon is the chief engineer in name and reality."
-- Eric Berger, space journalist and Ars Technica's senior space editor.
Many more comments here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
Fanboyism is really, really weird.
Other people waste time criticising people they don't know simply because those people have different political opinions.
The former behaviour comes naturally to me. People who do the latter need to be pulled up on it.
He reduced the cost of space travel by 10x and restored America's re-usable vehicle capability after decades of government mis-management.
He spearheaded the transition to sustainable transportation by building a brand new car startup which is now the most valuable automaker in the world (by market cap).
He has demonstrated viable brain-computer interfaces in humans.
He co-founded the most important AI company in the world.
He brought free speech back to Twitter, ending a dystopian era of government-coordinated censorship.
He reduced Las Vegas commute times from 45 minutes to 2 minutes by starting a tunnelling company from scratch, developing new electric tunnelling machines with continuous capabililty, and building tunnels.
That, unfortunately, is simply not the case at the moment. A good example is Biden excluding Tesla from EV-related events and discussions (and making the laughable claim that GM was leading the EV industry). Or the Biden-state Democrat-appointed judge McCormick who intervened in the Musk's X deal, and who cancelled Musk's pay package.
Musk believes in libertarian, small-state values. In fact he intervened recently to reduce the size and power of the American state system. That's what libertarians do. That's not what authoritarians do. It's CERTAINLY not what fascists do (one aspect of fascism is large, totalitarian state apparatus)
Which is why Musk's "Libertarian" presentation does not match reality.
Musk spent more than a quarter BILLION dollars electing the most authoritarian person ever to occupy the chair of the US president, and now that the president Musk helped elect is actively using the power of the state to take control of corporations and threaten and coerce everyone in academia, journalism, media, and even comedians, Musk is not even posting protests on his own social media network to such massively anti-libertarian actions; he's egging it on. Musk is either the dumbest Libertarian ever to be suckered into putting $250 Billion into an anti-Libertarian candidate, or you are being deceived.
As for Biden's relationship with Musk, would you really expect the most pro-union President in the last half-century to actively promote one of the most flagrantly anti-union and worker-hostile corporate executives in recent history? I agree it may not have been the smartest move by Biden to so blatantly shun Musk, but.
As for the DOGE efforts, they were most definitely NOT supporting small-state values, they actively cost the govt money, and the primary reason was the most massive data raid ever, taking most of the Social Security Administration, Dept Of Labor, Dept of Educ., and other databases onto uncontrolled servers outside the govt system, attempting a data fusion unauthorized by ANY representatives of the people. Considering his relationship with Peter Theil running Palantir, who is openly authoritarian, believing democracy is incompatible with freedom, I'd put at best even odds the data hasn't been exfiltrated to the most authoritarian technology effort ever in the democratic world.
Musk is either an extremely bad libertarian or none at all.
Coercing who, exactly? Do you have any examples?
Seems odd that an alleged authoritarian president would massively reduce the power of the state (DOGE), doesn't it?
> As for the DOGE efforts, they were most definitely NOT supporting small-state values, they actively cost the govt money,
Not in the long term, they won't. Reduce the size of the state = reduce the cost of the state.
Peter Thiel is a libertarian. He was misconstrued by some as "authoritarian" based on a 2009 essay which included the phrase "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible" -- the sentence is misunderstood as anti-democratic. What Thiel instead feared is "that mass democracy, driven by emotion, resentment, and short-termism, will deliberately or accidentally dismantle the freedoms that underpin innovation and growth"
Seriously?
How can you ignore or justify as not authoritarian all the newspeople and COMEDIANS who Trump has coerced the networks into cancelling? All the spurious lawsuits and threats of abusive government action against any org broadcasting non-Trump-favorable news? Check the current abuse of the DOJ to go against anyone involved in investigating his crimes, the unilaterial userpation of Congress' power of the purse with the daily tariff announcements?
DOGE is massively reducing the power of the state? NO, (aside from teh data raid) it is removing career professionals who might govern competently instead of loyally to the Chief Executive. That is the opposite of reducing government power, it is concentrating it.
DOGE saving money? Nope again, every week it gets worse. They are literally recalling fired workers who have been on payroll doing nothing since April because the functions cannot be performed without them. Six months of paid leave without even firing people is the opposite of efficiency with payroll money.
Theil Libertarian? Are you serious? He is building Palantir, which is the largest surveillance company ever, and integrating it into every government function he can. His friend Ellison also stated 'people will be on their best behavior when they are under cameras all the time'. Those are not the statements or actions of Libertarians, and any Libertarian sentiments are cover at best.
Seriously, look and reassess. You are providing a fine example of how motivated reasoning and enthusiasm can lead to deeply wrong conclusions
edit: correct "unpaid leave" to "paid leave"
Plus, another reminder, Elon supported ALL of this with $250 - $400 million. That is not the action of a libertarian
"Musk calls Anti-Defamation League ‘hate group’ for documenting Christian extremism"
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/sep/29/elon-musk...
Seriously? #2
We now have the President and Commander In Chief (elected with the essential help of a quarter-$$billion++ of Elon Musk's money) just addressed an unprecedented gathering of Generals declaring the most important war is in "[US cities .....That's a war too. It's a war from within"
The most important potential war is not Russia, China, or even Transnational Drug Cartels, it is US citizens
And the Secretary of War also addressed the same group telling them that "We untie the hands of our war fighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the enemies of our country. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement, just common sense, maximum lethality and authority for war fighters,"
So, the very top leadership of the country is declaring to the top militery that greatest enemy is US citizens and the military will be deployed to US cities to fight, and without rules of engagement, so they can more effectively "intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill" everyone, including those US citizens and residents.
This is the most authoritarian, and frankly straight-up fascist move I've seen in the US in my lifetime, if not ever.
Please explain how these actions (again, directly supported by massive amounts of money and effort from Elon Musk) are in any way "Libertarian". Seriously.
[0] https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trump-pi...
[1] https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2025/Sep/30/intimidat...
Would the EuroNCAP stat help you in any way if your kids get trapped on the back of your car while you are unconscious and burn to death because they don't know how to operate the handle? That's the issue, it doesn't matter the EuroNCAP if such a stupid decision has and will kill people, statistically it's very improbable it will affect you but it will affect someone just like you.
Please, let go of the cult...
I don't think the fancy electronic door handles are an improvement, and am unhappy to see that other brands are following suit.
If there are electronic processes that you want to trigger as the door opens, I think the better solution would be a two-stage handle that initially sends an electrical signal and then engages the mechanical latch if you continue pulling.
From just a convenience perspective having to explain both the interior and exterior doorhandles to anyone riding in your car is a pain, but in the case of an accident, being submerged in water, driver incapacitation, or any other reason you need to exit the car, there should be zero ambiguity of how to do so even if the car has lost power.
Obvious, intuitive, failsafe handles on the inside and outside of car doors should be industry standard.
I'm pretty sure my 2009 Prius has this feature; it will unlock the doors when I lightly touch the inside of the handle, and then pulling it will engage the door mechanism.
This is how Mercedes handles work, for what it's worth. A motor pushes them out or retracts them, but they're held in only with a spring, so you can always physically force them out, at which point pulling on them directly pulls on the release lever.
Literally or proverbially? Either way it's a great way to weather the problem the fun way.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/2012_2020_models/en_ie/GU...
> To open a rear door in the unlikely situation when Model S has no power, fold back the edge of the carpet below the rear seats to expose the mechanical release cable. Pull the mechanical release cable toward the center of the vehicle.
I have mentioned this to my family but I don't think there's any way my kids could operate these manual releases on their own, and certainly not in the heat of the moment.
It gives me chills to imagine the consequences of this for my family in an accident.
So.. get another car. Safety first.
"Cognitive dissonance" and "cult behavior" is what comes to my mind when I read this.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-safest-cars-on-sale-today/n...
> Out of the 20 models tested so far in 2025, just two scored high enough marks to be included in our top 10. Most impressively, the Tesla Model 3 is now the safest new car on the market thanks to its overall score of 359 out of 400.
---
> you're keeping the car...
Actually I'm planning to upgrade my Model S to a Model Y. Thanks for asking!
My door in the back was blocked, but my brother wasn't able to open his, as it was damaged. I had to kick it while pulling the handle.
Good luck doing that in a Tesla.
I'm a bit lost in that ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Yelchin#Lawsuit_and_reca...
Alas, “build the best car you can” wasn’t compatible with long-term viability. Something engineering-driven companies seem to keep encountering.
The whole brochure is an neat time capsule to browse through: http://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/W126_USA1990.html
It was kind of shocking because he was just going full zealot, in a class in Oregon United States.
The attitude was really toxic to the class. The student was trying to drum up philosophical support for all or nothing thinking, as I look back. A way to kind of circumvent a more nuanced judgment, which I think the teacher intended to convey as the whole point of the class.
And the teacher did not like it at all, and she kicked him out. It was an educational moment for me, to see clashing philosophies and power all mixed in the same adult circumstance.
Is it actually incompatible with long term viability? Or does it just create an unstable state where the temptation to gut the reputation for immediate profit grows as the size of that profit grows?
Yes, I'd argue it is incompatible, at least for companies dealing with atoms. At some point, the technology lead erodes, "not bad" becomes good enough, and mature businesses are unable to adapt while maintaining engineering at the center. Technology development at the frontier is too irregular to rely on for the long-term.
There has been a very steady march of progress in cars, in safety, efficiency, and comfort since that ad came out. They did lose their tech lead, but I'm not sure it was inevitable in that time frame.
Volvo made a name for itself with safety. Mercedes could have done that. Toyota made a name for itself with hybrid drivetrains. Mercedes could have done that.
They didn't, sure, but your argument seems to hinge on low hanging fruit going away and others catching up. This seems like Mercedes simply opted not to reach for the next piece of fruit.
I would also argue that efficiency is insufficient, at least in the US. For Toyota, while their hybrid tech is an incredible engineering accomplishment and certainly put them on the radar for many consumers, I don't know that it's the crown jewel; to wit, they started offering their hybrid tech royalty free a few years ago. If you want an efficient car, you can get one from a number of marques, but is there real demand for that?
You're right I think to call out Toyota as a counterexample, but I think it's the Toyota Way that truly distinguished Toyota and continues to do so. That seems to be the only hedge against decay, to bake a lasting, long-termism culture into the organization in day one and ruthlessly enforce it. There's a few other Japanese companies that come to mind that have similar storylines. It needs to be there in the beginning too, TPS isn't a secret, and JV attempts to share the knowledge (NUMMI) didn't seem to make a lasting impact without the culture to enforce it long-term.
But I agree that this is madness!
I'm not too concerned with opening from the outside, but opening from the inside has to be a simple thing that works in all situations, even for first time passengers!
It'd be nice if you or any passerby could easily open the door without any thought don't you think?
But it would also make car breakins trivially easy, and I don't think people would accept that tradeoff.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2025-tesla-dangerous-door...
Unpaywalled: https://archive.ph/QCuQJ
Screenshots of instructions: https://imgur.com/a/96ckdjv
honeycrispy•4mo ago