> The jets circled for about 12 minutes and Italian F-35s were scrambled to repel them.
Earlier this year, HN discussed the value of the F-35 (a plane I'm quite fond of!)
During that discussion, one overlooked point was the top speed of the F-35. At-altitude, the F-35 cannot intercept a MiG-31. Flying nap-of-the-earth would be a different discussion, but Russia knows this. Their planes commit an incursion, waited for a response, and then exited once they detected the response. They were in control of the entire intercept, from the start to the end.
This is what we mean, when we say Russia is "testing" us. They want to see if a serious response exists to these threats; an F-35 is a glorified ground-attack jet. It's an amazing piece of kit, but it can't do much besides lob an AMRAAM in a situation like this.
duxup•1h ago
>Their planes commit an incursion, waited for a response, and then exited once they detected the response.
That's pretty much the status quo during the cold war anyway, speed or not. You measure response times, where it came from, and so on.
jacquesm•1h ago
It should have come at Mach 9 from below. Good chance that next time it will.
thw_9a83c•1h ago
> the F-35 cannot intercept a MiG-31
The fact is that the F-35 was not designed to be an interceptor fighter jet. Rather, it was designed to use its stealth features, advanced sensors, and long-range missile capabilities to detect and destroy a MiG-31 well before the MiG-31 could even become aware of it. Whether the F-35 is a suitable aircraft for dealing with the aforementioned MiG-31 provocations is another question.
bigyabai•1h ago
I agree wholeheartedly. That's why my heart breaks seeing other countries use the F-35 as an interceptor, presumably because their air force was priced-out of something like the Eurofighter or Rafale. It's in your own airspace, you don't need a highly-survivable stealth platform or 10x sensor loadout. You need a fast interceptor.
csdreamer7•20m ago
Would you share more about the priced out part? Wouldn't a stealth fighter be more expensive than an interceptor? Do you have links?
rolph•1h ago
when a mig turns tail, and runs like this, they have seriously limited manueverability. they basically go into "rocket mode" and sacrifice agility for delta v
tejohnso•1h ago
Wouldn't any capable aircraft lob an AMRAAM? At least as an initial BVR engagement? I would think a bunch of long range missiles coming your way would qualify as a serious response even if they came from F-35s.
jleyank•1h ago
The meat sack can only handle 8-9G’s and only some number of those. So, make missiles and drones that can outdo this and get them to go fast and the problem is reduced. Stealthy and fast might not be possible due to IR, and stealth might not work at all in optical wavelengths with any ambient light.
Ukraine might have demonstrated that smart, smaller weapons will or even have taken over the battlefield. And they brought down a stealth fighter with boring old flak in the Balkans decades ago.
bigyabai•2h ago
Earlier this year, HN discussed the value of the F-35 (a plane I'm quite fond of!)
During that discussion, one overlooked point was the top speed of the F-35. At-altitude, the F-35 cannot intercept a MiG-31. Flying nap-of-the-earth would be a different discussion, but Russia knows this. Their planes commit an incursion, waited for a response, and then exited once they detected the response. They were in control of the entire intercept, from the start to the end.
This is what we mean, when we say Russia is "testing" us. They want to see if a serious response exists to these threats; an F-35 is a glorified ground-attack jet. It's an amazing piece of kit, but it can't do much besides lob an AMRAAM in a situation like this.
duxup•1h ago
That's pretty much the status quo during the cold war anyway, speed or not. You measure response times, where it came from, and so on.
jacquesm•1h ago
thw_9a83c•1h ago
The fact is that the F-35 was not designed to be an interceptor fighter jet. Rather, it was designed to use its stealth features, advanced sensors, and long-range missile capabilities to detect and destroy a MiG-31 well before the MiG-31 could even become aware of it. Whether the F-35 is a suitable aircraft for dealing with the aforementioned MiG-31 provocations is another question.
bigyabai•1h ago
csdreamer7•20m ago
rolph•1h ago
tejohnso•1h ago