UK, Candada and Australia formally recognize Palestinian state

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2025/sep/21/keir-starmer-palestine-recognition-announcement-gaza-uk-politics-live

69•ath3nd•1h ago

Comments

FridayoLeary•1h ago

A lot to unpack. First of all where is this palestinian state? Gaza, West bank? Who represents it, the deeply unpopular and corrupt PLO, or the more popular but genocidal Hamas? Finally is this anything more then an empty gesture? Does it in any meaningful way help palestinians, or is it a purely performative act designed to placate the left wing of Labour (uk) and muslim voters and what message does this send to Hamas?

crikeykangaroo•1h ago

What are the borders of the genocidal state of Israel? I think they haven't been defined either... They seem to be expanding...

basisword•1h ago

>> Does it in any meaningful way help palestinians

Given the Israeli governments ongoing efforts to make them disappear from the face of the earth, other countries recognising that they exist is helpful.

devzx•1h ago

If that was their goal they would have done it on October 8th, quit with the nonsense. They wouldn't send their soldiers in to die when they could obliterate the entire place by air and sea if not for the fact they are purposefully not trying to what you accuse them of.

oncallthrow•1h ago

30% of Gaza’s buildings have been destroyed or severely damaged.

devzx•1h ago

Unless the definition of genocide has been changed, even if all the buildings were destroyed that would still not constitute a genocide. My question still stands, why are Israel risking the lives of their young men and women inside Gaza if they are perpetrating a genocide which they have the capability to carry it out in less than a day?

oncallthrow•55m ago

You argued that Israel are not “obliterating” Gaza. I simply pointed out to you that they are, by any reasonable definition.

As it happens, they are also committing a genocide. I suspect you won’t accept that, but I don’t care. History will look back on this and agree with me, not you.

drankl•31m ago

Historians will probably have a range of opinions on this matter.

devzx•27m ago

I argued that they are not committing a genocide and by every provable metric they aren't. I asked you a very simple question that you can't or refuse to answer, and I suspect its because if you answer honestly you'll come to the only logical conclusion. I'll also put to you that the only actual genocide that took place during this conflict was on October 7th.

g-b-r•25m ago

The definition of genocide has never changed, but you probably never read it.

devzx•14m ago

Thanks for letting me know the definition hasn't changed and I'm glad you agree with me that there isn't a genocide taking place but a very intense war. P.S My people suffered an actual genocide and it didn't look like what is happening in Gaza. Interesting to note is how the "victims" of this genocide can end it immediately by simply returning the hostages but refuse to.

crikeykangaroo•1h ago

"We could have dropped a nuke, but instead, opted to drop so many bombs over time which equal a couple of nukes! Totally not a genocide!"

devzx•1h ago

How do you feel about the bombing of Dresden in World War 2? If people like you were listened to back then, you would be speaking German right now and I wouldn't be here.

permo-w•51m ago

how does this follow?

_DeadFred_•18m ago

Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were destroyed without it being a genocide.

cubefox•14m ago

If likewise fighting the Nazis had been stopped because of people calling it a "genocide" the outcome would have been catastrophic.

abxyz•1h ago

Canada and Australia are famously invested in how the left wing of the U.K’s Labour Party feel, and how British Muslim voters feel.

chrisweekly•1h ago

sarcasm?

catlover76•1h ago

What a nakedly disingenuous set of questions. It's based in the West Bank, which is decidedly recognized, as a legal matter, as occupied territory, and the "government" is the Palestinian Authority. The PLO hasn't been relevant for some time.

> what message does this send to Hamas?

who cares? Israel has had a genocidal government for some time now that has, until very recently, only received positive reinforcement.

oncallthrow•1h ago

> What a nakedly disingenuous set of questions

The tell-tale sign that you are arguing with an Israel supporter

oncallthrow•1h ago

> Finally is this anything more then an empty gesture?

You might think it is “empty”, but diplomacy is conducted via gestures like this.

Israel is rightfully becoming a pariah state. You should probably get used to headlines like this.

Zealotux•1h ago

>genocidal Hamas

Genocidal Israel has no issue being recognized in the West.

Simulacra•1h ago

I think a more correct title would be they recognized the potential of a Palestinian state.

ViewTrick1002•1h ago

> I state clearly, as Prime Minister of this great country…

> That the United Kingdom…

> Formally recognises the State of Palestine.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-on-the-r...

PhilipRoman•1h ago

I think a more correct title would be anything not containing "Candada" :)

__s•14m ago

save me Candaddy from geopolitical feuds

blibble•1h ago

practically means little

however a clear display of the end of the US soft power, after an interesting 6 months of foreign policy

37•1h ago

Last month the Wikipedia article for "International recognition of Palestine" had these countries in dark green, what am I missing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=International_rec...

Weryj•1h ago

They already announced they intended to do this a month ago

throw_a_grenade•1h ago

If you're talking about the image, I think you need to look at the image history itself:

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Palestine_recognit... (“File History”)

Just browsing history on MediaWiki will probably show the old tex with recenn image. If you want full article, you'd have to use web.archive.org, archive.is or somethinglike that.

37•57m ago

Thank you very much, this is the answer.

SkySkimmer•1h ago

When you look at an old version of a wikipedia article it still displays the current version of images. That's why in your link the image legend has eg

>[light green] Countries that have announced their impending recognition of Palestine (Australia, France, Malta, and San Marino)

but Australia is dark green in the current image (France still light green and I can't be bothered zooming to see the small ones)

solatic•1h ago

Typical confusion of people hood/nationhood with statehood/governance.

Palestinians have, in Gaza, the last vestiges of a terrorist government (Hamas) unrecognized by Western governments. In the West Bank, they have an unpopular, corrupt, barely functioning government in the Palestinian Authority, with no public legitimacy among Palestinians, and no power within its declared/aspirational borders.

One can have sympathy for Palestinians as individuals caught in the middle of a horrific conflict and betrayed by their supposed ruling class. One can even commiserate with their collective Palestinian national identity. That does not mean that there is a successful Palestinian state to be recognized. This is premature and it will only make future peace attempts more difficult.

jacquesm•1h ago

You are missing the point entirely: this is not about future peace attempts, this is an attempt to stop an ongoing genocide.

bombleaders•1h ago

Hard to have a government or leaders when they get bombed simply for meeting to discuss peace proposals. The Israeli government has systematically stopped the Palestinians from developing a functioning government or economy.

cooloo•1h ago

I'm a disagreement on many things that horrifying Israeli government is doing. Yet I can only imagine what would happen to Qatar if Bean Laden was taking shelter in it, none the less I hope this terrorists will meet their maker soon

clipsy•58m ago

> Yet I can only imagine what would happen to Qatar if Bean Laden was taking shelter in it

You don’t have to imagine; Bin Laden took shelter in Pakistan and all that happened was a single commando raid.

_DeadFred_•15m ago

Thought they were bombed because they continue to hold Israeli citizens that they abducted from their homes during the process of murdering over 1,000 people while maiming thousands more using indiscriminate violence. We saw this because Hamas were so proud they broadcast videos of themselves spitting on twisted bodies of stripped young women and kidnapping 6 year old girls. That is why they were bombed.

mytailorisrich•1h ago

I think it worse than that because this recognition now can be directly traced to 7th October. So in effect this vindicates Hamas against partisans of a peaceful approach and in doing so sends the signal that violence and atrocities should continue since they pay. Hamas and similar organisations are not concerned about civilian deaths it that yields results, and in fact that has been their strategy.

Cynically, this recognition by the UK is domestic politicking. Starmer is at rock bottom and so he is seeking to boost support from the hard left and Muslim demographics.

basisword•1h ago

I agree it can be traced back to October 7th - but that's not the specific cause. If the Israeli's had reacted in a proportionate way these governments would not be recognising Palestine. It took nearly two full years of war crimes to get to this point. So acting like it's the result of terrorism is disingenuous.

permo-w•56m ago

there's also the massive elephant in the room of Netanyahu, whose only thread holding him in power is the continuation of this war

mytailorisrich•47m ago

What is a proportionate way to respond considering the scale of what Hamas (de facto government of Gaza with popular support) did?

How did the US react to Pearl Harbour and 9/11? (Both of which were smaller attacks in relative terms than 7th October).

Should the response to such attacks even be proportionate?

I don't know what response Hamas expected but I suspect they did seek a very bloody one. They must have known and expected it considering the horror of what they did. So, again, I think this is all playing right into their hands, even if Israel has indeed been brutal.

g-b-r•33m ago

> sends the signal that violence and atrocities should continue since they pay.

What signal would it send if Israel came out better after killing 60 thousands people, almost 20 thousand children, razing to the ground most of a people's territory and commiting uncountable war crimes?

Israel had some of the strongest support it ever had after October 7th, and if in the end there will be negative consequences for the country, it will be *entirely* because of how its government chose to respond to it.

basisword•1h ago

You point out the 'terrorist government' in Gaza. The 'corrupt' government in the West Bank. Why should we look at these as less legitimate that the government that the UN has concluded has committed four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law?

And what hope does the Palestinian Authority really have in the West Bank when they continue to be under occupation and the Israeli govern covertly and overtly supports illegal settlements?

Finally - how can you look down on Gaza/West Bank as 'not legitimate' states when large parts of the state of Israel were taken through their own terrorism and invasion of their neighbours. That seems to be easily forgotten. They're 'legitimate' only because they've been backed by a superpower.

mothballed•1h ago

Netanyahu/Israel implemented policies that strengthened up Hamas after the PA started to become more amenable to peaceful agreements that would better secure their future. Whether that was just to keep both sides fighting or a desire to Hamas to actually win out is up for debate.

  "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas ... This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."[50][51]  -- B Netanyahu

mikaTheThird•1h ago

I hope they recognize the stete of Assyrians, aramiac/Syriac, Chaldeans, Yizdi and every other indigenous nation in the middle east.

As an Assyrian, my nation has been getting exterminated by Arabs, Turkish and Kurdish colonialist for millennia. We live in constant fear and I don't think we will exist in the next 30 years

ethniccleanse•1h ago

Apparently pointing out the ethnic cleansing against Palestinians is not allowed here.

ViewTrick1002•1h ago

Based on history and looking long term I see three paths out:

1. South Africa / Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) where Palestine and Israel is united leading to an exodus of the former ethno-nationalist "managerial" class.

2. Two-state solution where an acceptance of each other is grown over generations.

3. Continuation of the current genocide of the Palestinian people until they are exterminated from their land. Leading to the isolation of Israel.

For Israel and the Israeli people the only palatable option should be 2, but they seem hellbent on 3 as per how Israeli people post here on HN and the actions of their democratically elected government.

cooloo•59m ago

From POV of Israelies they gave Palestinians (2) and got a genocide in returns. Looking at Palestinians behavior they only want (1) that it's basically genocide for all Jewish Israelies. I guess it more complicated than you think

g-b-r•27m ago

> From POV of Israelies they gave Palestinians (2) and got a genocide in returns.

The one Israeli prime minister who was about to give the Palestinians (2) was killed by an Israeli

> Looking at Palestinians behavior they only want (1) that it's basically genocide for all Jewish Israelies. I guess it more complicated than you think

Wanting their land back does not imply wanting to exterminate its present occupants.

_DeadFred_•20m ago

No, but the words of the leaders do. Their actions on Oct. 7th do.

churchill•24m ago

You can't be serious. Israel abducts tens of thousands of Palestinians, detains them in torture camps where they're subjected to systematic torture, rape, and dehumanization. Enforces a blockade on their territory. Arbitrarily murders Palestinians both in the West Bank and the Gaza holocaust. Damages economic infrastructure to keep them dependent on aid, etc.

That's before you address the mass murder and ongoing genocide of Palestinians over the past 3 years. The earlier the Israelis make a lasting peace with Palestine, the better. Rhodesia & South Africa, at their peak, had kill-dead ratios up to 50-100, in some cases. Israel has never come close to that kind of effectiveness, despite heavy Western funding.

As America's Christian Zionist boomers grow old, and a younger generation that sees the situation as injustice grows up, Israel's situation will become more untenable and they might end up under ZAR-style sanctions within a few decades.

drankl•35m ago

This seems practically impossible unless Hamas is out of the picture. Their stated goal is the eradication of Israel, not a two-state solution.

For example, this is what a senior Hamas Political Bureau leader had to say last year about the October 7th massacre:

"Israel is a country that has no place on our land. We must remove that country, because it constitutes a security, military and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation and must be finished. We are not ashamed to say this, with full force. We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again. The Al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth, because we have the determination, the resolve and the capabilities to fight. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs."

palata•16m ago

> This seems practically impossible

What does? They have recognised Palestine in practice, it's done. Therefore it was possible.

spants•29m ago

Keir Starmer is a joke. Shabana Mahmood as Home Secretary is a bad joke. Lammy, as Deputy Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is a really silly joke. How can the world treat us seriously????