It is not a requirement that those people are in Seattle. Just as car manufacturing is not required to be in Detroit.

s/when/if/

It's not becuase of interest rates (or section 174 or H1Bs or whatever boogeyman you want)

Microsoft, Amazon, and other firms have been steadily moving out of Seattle for the past several years - first doing domestic offshoring in Tier 2 metros like RTP, DMV, and Denver and after that to dramatically expanding their already significant presence in the CEE and India.

A lot of people on work visas who were impacted during the initial COVID visa issues were PMs, EMs, and other mid-level managers who when they shifted back to their home country were given P/L and product responsibilities, and as such the center of gravity has left Seattle.

On top of that, local Seattle area politicians strangled the golden goose by becoming populist tech haters - great for winning an election, but did nothing for the Seattle or Washington economy.

ZIRP was a historical anomaly. We shouldn’t expect another sustained period of what we understand to be low interest rates in our lifetimes.

Seattle residents are happy because other people they deem as "uncultured" are out of jobs?

If that is true, do we really want to save Seattle's "culture" from being hollowed out.

I think this happens to any city whose existing population and culture gets rapidly overwhelmed in a small amount of time, such that the existing group sees its way of life being erased. It can happen with situations like sudden mass migration (like in some European cities where they were used as relocation centers for asylum immigrants). But in Seattle’s case, I am betting it’s the tech industry as a whole not just Amazon. The city probably saw a large influx of people from California and also outside the US, replacing the earlier vibes, all within 20 years.

Is it still a bubble if it is not going to burst in your lifetime?

The median household income in the Greater Seattle Area is $121k [0] and the median house sale price is $775k [1].

This means the median income to house ratio is roughly 1:5.5

This is fairly standard across the US, and was true even 20 years ago.

For example, in 2000 the median household income ($46k [2]) and house price (~$240k [3]) ratio was roughly 1:5.5. This ratio held true in 2024 as well with a median household income of $83k [2] and a median house price of ~430k [3].

As such, the cost of buying a house as a ratio of household income hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is the perception.

[0] - https://data.census.gov/profile/Seattle_city,_Washington?g=1...

[1] - https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/seattle-top-cities-home-pr...

[2] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA646N

[3] - https://www.fedprimerate.com/new_home_sales_price_history.ht...

Not just rideshare, but food delivery has been practically outlawed with all the taxes and fees. We have…

Sales tax: 10.25% on prepared delivery food.

Commission cap: Apps can only charge restaurants up to 15% per order, which leads to apps passing on fees to consumers

PayUp ordinance from 2024: delivery workers must be paid at least $0.44 per engaged minute + $0.74 per engaged mile, or a minimum of $5 per offer, whichever is greater. For 2025, those rates increase to $0.45/minute, $0.77/mile, or $5.20 per offer.

I tried to order 1 pad Thai and 1 curry the other night and it was going to be over $70. Insanity.

Seattle levied taxes and fees on Uber and deliveries that are so high that it is comical. You literally will pay more in taxes and fees to the city than you’d ordinarily pay for the goods and services you are actually consuming. Like, up to 100% effective tax rates on consumption. Unsurprisingly, people noped out and now there is a new crisis because people that provided those services are underemployed or unemployed.

The politicians begrudgingly acknowledge the massive drop in business but simultaneously assert they can’t change anything because “it was the right thing to do”. Meanwhile, the people that worked in those businesses aren’t getting paid. Seattle has the highest minimum wage in the country, almost $21/hr before tips, but that is a cold comfort if there isn’t enough business to give you hours.

Seattle is not run by serious people.

Amazing nature, food, and people. Not a whole lot of cities that compete with it in the US.

I'm curious to know what you consider good weather.

Ironically, the weather in Seattle is better than most of Europe.

The irony of the fabled Seattle complaints of the “freeze” is it’s not unique to the region whatsoever and due to so many transplants in the past 15-ish years along with so many locals forcibly relocating out of the city people are more likely than ever to be interacting with those that moved as adults / other transplants.

For me as someone that grew up in the region the people, nature, and weather are sufficient enough for me. Having lived in several other large metro areas in the US I’ve pretty much felt like an alien species even though it’s not like I don’t feel welcome. In the PNW being weird and unconventional is kind of celebrated regardless of socioeconomic castes historically, but that’s certainly eroded as the problems of hyper growth have strained everyone.

That's not the right read in my experience.

Most companies began opening offices abroad with P/L and roadmap ownership responsibilities during the initial Covid layoffs, because the first employees cut were those on work visas. Despite the stereotypes on this forum, this included a lot of PMs, EMs, and Principal Engineers.

When companies began rehiring during the COVID recovery, they began rehiring these former employees, but giving them a significant salary premium while allowing them to open and manage entire offices abroad. On top of that, CEE, Israel, and India all give massive subsidizes and roll the red carpet for companies to open high headcount offices which made it easier to do this move.

Now in 2025, you can see the 75th percentile of TCs in India and Romania in the $50k-60k mark and the 90th percentile breaking the $75k-85k mark, so it's not only cheap back office work.