They don't need the same feature list.
That + latency with MIDI devices is why every DAW-in-a-browser is just a toy.
Much like those of us hammering away at LLMs who eventually get incredible results through persistence, people are doing the same with these other AI tools, creating in an entirely new way.
I'm sure Suno are working hard on this and these AI tools can only come together as fast as we can figure out the UX for all this stuff, but I'm holding out for when I can guide the music with specific melodies using voice or midi.
For "conventional" musicians, we (or at least I) would love to have that level of control. Often we know exactly what it should sound like, but might not have session musicians or expensive VSTs (or patience) on hand to get exactly the sound we want. Currently we make do with what we have - but this tech could allow many to take their existing productions to the next level.
Sunscreen: https://youtu.be/VBaWtOHPTZw
Purple Sunset Over Lake 2: https://youtu.be/lD7rSxPncs4
Is it snobby of me to look down upon art that is created using these tools as lesser because the human did not make every tiny decision going into a peice? That a persons taste and talent is no longer fully used to produce something and for someone reason to me what is what makes the art impressive and meaningful?
Something about art with imperfections still feels exciting, maybe even more so than if I see something that is perfect but if I see an AI gen picture with 6 fingers, I just write it all off as slop.
I am happy to allow my generated code to come from “training data” but I see the use of AI in art, writing and music as using stolen artists hard work.
I feel like as time goes on, I feel even more conflicted about it all.
> That a persons taste and talent is no longer fully used to produce something and for someone reason to me what is what makes the art impressive and meaningful?
Human output isn't sacred. yes this is snobbery, a useless feeling of superiority.
You either adapt or go hungry just like everybody else and art shouldn't be exempt from the mechanics of supply and demand.
Take, for example, a track by Fontaines D.C., a band from Ireland that writes extensively about the lived social and political experience. Knowing where they are from and the general themes of their work makes their tracks feel authentic, and you can appreciate the worldview they have and the time spent producing the art, even if it does not align with your own tastes.
Trying to create something of the same themes and quality from a prompt of “make me an Irish pop rock track about growing up in the country” suddenly misses any authenticity.
Maybe this is what I am trying to get at, but like I said, I feel some conflict about this, as I personally value these tools for productivity
Yes. But aesthetic taste and snobbery usually go hand in hand.
This is the first time I'm actually paying for generated AI content because the value I get is immense. I really think we are headed towards and over supply of content where there will be more stuff to read, watch, listen with very real value in all of them.
This spells out the inevitable change in the labor market for content creators. There will always be value for human created content and some will make more money but it will always have the AI generated content generation competing with it to the point where it will be hard to stay ahead and eventually people will stop caring.
Case in point, I see some comments being snarkish towards Suno but for as a consumer I could care less if you put your soul and years into producing art vs the one I can get a lot of today and now especially when there is virtually no difference in quality.
Truly an amazing accomplishment from Suno team, and probably the first time I've subbed to a music service after decades of downloading mp3s, hunting down new songs to listen to on Youtube. Suno 'steamified" this process and while I will use youtube to discover new genre, I am spending now most of my time in Suno, listening to endless amount of the exact sound I am looking for.
This is a big big lie.
I just haven't heard anything that isn't "slopful" yet. If I do, I will still feel weird about it, but I'm a big believer in the value of "aesthetic objects in themselves", so I am eager to find something I do actually like.
Even just knowing something was drawn or composed by an AI will negatively taint my opinion from the start, but I'm still open.
The problem with AI music is that is just sounds like shit.
I don't totally discount the position that the human "soul" is what makes art art and all that, but I still do think something can be very enjoyable and good without being created by a sentient entity, in theory.
a quantity over quality argument with regard to art is wild.
Music is a uniquely interesting case, since music has a much lower barrier of entry to consume.
It either needs to be: 1. So easy anyone can press a button and magically get exactly what they want with perfect accuracy and quality. 2. So robust and powerful it enables new kinds of music production and super-charges human producers.
This is neither. And I don't buy Suno's argument that they're solving a real problem here. Creative people don't hate the process of creating art-- it's the process itself and the personal expression that make it worthwhile. And listeners/consumers can tell the difference between art created with intent and soul, and a pale imitation of that.
But then you look at image gen. The established one, namely Adobe, are surprisingly not winning the AI race.
Then you look at code gen. The established IDEs are doing even worse.
I don't rule out the possibility of music being truly special, but the idea of "established tools can just easily integrate AI right" isn't universally true.
I'd argue music generation is different from image or code generation. It's closer to being purely art. Take image generation for example. Most of the disruption is coming from competition with graphic design, marketing, creative/production processes, etc. The art world isn't up in arms about AI "art" competing with human art.
What Adobe and others ought to be doing is setting up internal labs that have free reign to explore whatever ideas they want, with no barriers or formality. I doubt any of them will do that.
Don't forget the secret third option - facilitate a tidal wave of empty-calorie content which saturates every avenue for discovery and "wins" purely by drowning everything else out through sheer volume. We're at the point where some genAI companies are all but admitting that's their goal.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/ai-podcas...
That way I get new musical ideas from Suno but without any trace of Suno in the final output. Suno's output, even with the v5 model, is never quite what I want anyway so this way makes most sense to me. Also it means there's no Suno audio watermarking in the final product.
It shouldn't be a magic button that does everything for you, removing the human element. A human consciously making decisions with intent, informed by life experience, to share a particular perspective, is what makes art art.
I've always been pretty bullish about using LLMs to help with coding. My comment history here should verify that. I just thought it was insanley cool tech, and I found I was rediscovering the joy of programming when I could delegate out all the tedious crap I could never get myself to do. Side projects that had languished for years were finally getting somewhere near "done". I also found in many cases it was actually smarter than me, finding cleaner and more elegant solutions to problems than I ever would have. And that was great!
The first time I played with Suno though, it was all so different. I felt deflated. What was the point in making music if a robot could do it better? Yes, the first models were crap, but the writing was on the wall. Music is all about pattern recognition and repetition after all, why wouldn't the robots be great at it? I suddenly knew how all those visual artists felt once the image models started rapidly improving.
So it's been interesting try to disect why I thought coding models were great, and creative models... well, depressing.
Part of it in my case was because being that guy who made cool music was always part of my identity, a part of me I was proud of. Coding, not so much. Don't get me wrong, I've had some pretty big career achievements that I'm very proud of, and I love coding. But at the end of day, the lines of code written were just a means to an end to making something cool.
Which brings me to the other reason I think I was so much more positive about LLMs: the application I was bringing to life with the help of an LLM still very much felt like "mine". Yes, maybe the tedium of writing a bunch of boilerplate was being delegated, but the idea, the architecture, the UX, were still all mine. So I was building something I could still feel proud of.
But typing a prompt into a box and getting a song back? Nah, that's not really mine. It's no different than shouting an idea to a musical improv musician and getting a song back. Maybe you gave them a cool idea, but the song isn't yours.
Which brings me full circle back to this new Suno DAW announcement: this is absolutely incredible. I've only skimmed the announcement so far, but I feel like this brings AI song generation firmly back into the court of how I'm using LLMs to code: letting AI take care of the boring shit, and letting me focus on the composition.
I've only really ever produced electronic music of various varieties, and I have so many uncompleted songs whithering on the vine because I wasted a week of time flipping endlessly through patches, tweaking them, trying to find "that sound" in my head that I could never bring to life, then eventually getting sick of the song and saying fuck it.
And in my experiments with Suno, I found it was actually crazy good at matching a "sound" I described, I just wished I had a way to compose my own song based on the sounds it generated. And now here it is.
If you want to test it, here's the link: https://www.submithub.com/ai-song-checker
thesparks•1h ago
Jordan-117•1h ago
jjangkke•1h ago
Suno 6 should solve those issues.