Why would anyone prefer to live there, unless they are very rich to make use of tax breaks for companies, or are from dodgy countries/have pariah passports like Russian, Iranian etc. and want to evade sanctions? Sure flight connectivity is fantastic, but so is one in Paris/Frankfurt/London.
rozumem•4mo ago
I've come across many people who live here, like it, and don't fall into the buckets you described. As for why I moved here, I briefly cover it in an earlier post: https://rozumem.xyz/posts/4
anovikov•4mo ago
There are plenty of places in EU with no income tax on business income. At least if you are a foreigner. Cyprus, Portugal, Spain, and probably more. Some countries have lump-sum income tax on foreign business income, like Greece (100K EUR per year you keep the rest).
Paperwork in those countries can take years but it only matters if you need entry visas/visas to travel elsewhere, so if you hold a first-world passport, you don't care, you file your paperwork and enjoy the rights of the permit you are applying for, from get go, and it's their problem how long it takes to get done. If you don't have a first world passport then yes, it's a pickle, because foreign embassies or immigration officials won't respect the 'application receipts' instead of a real document.
On the flip side, these countries are democratic and provide a path to citizenship and have a real society to integrate to, not literally 90% expat population who come and go and have both no potential (because no naturalisation) and no incentive, to integrate.
rozumem•4mo ago
Curious what your sources are for zero income tax on business income in Spain and Portugal. When I researched them a while back, I didn't see anything of that nature. Anyways, all my income would be foreign income so not sure if what you're saying would even apply to me. But, I'm all ears.
> you file your paperwork and enjoy the rights of the permit you are applying for, from get go, and it's their problem how long it takes to get done
I've experienced this in Poland. I was not allowed to leave the country while my paperwork was being processed (which took over a year) or I would not be allowed re-entry. Not sure how other countries operate.
I wholeheartedly agree EU is much better for settling long term, integrating, feeling part of a community, etc... I've had a great time in Poland and EU generally and I'd love to settle there at some point.
But presently I want a place to bunker down for one year and focus. And I found that to be difficult in EU where I'd have to keep moving every 3 months or deal with bureaucracy for a DN visa.
So far, I find Dubai to be a good fit for that time horizon. Zero income tax is a nice perk but wasn't my primary motivation. I also considered the Baltic countries, but shied away from the paperwork, language gap, and lack of a quick turnaround.
anovikov•4mo ago
>I've experienced this in Poland. I was not allowed to leave the country while my paperwork was being processed (which took over a year) or I would not be allowed re-entry. Not sure how other countries operate.
What was the visa you applied for?? and what is your citizenship. I heard this only about refugees. Also, what does it even mean "to leave the country" if you are in the Schengen space and there are no borders? What if you just re-enter through any other Schengen country?
>Curious what your sources are for zero income tax on business income in Spain and Portugal.
It's called Beckham regime in Spain, named after David Beckham for whom it was originally invented. Officially “Régimen fiscal aplicable a los trabajadores desplazados a territorio español”. If you haven't lived in Spain (haven't been a tax resident) for previous 5 years, and you applied within 6 months of taking up residency, you don't pay anything on foreign-derived dividends, rents, passive interest income, or realised capital gains. So if you hold a company abroad and it pays you dividends, you pay nothing on them. It can be an offshore entity (including yes, a Dubai one!) with no company profit tax, in this case you don't pay shit.
There is a similar thing in Portugal but paperwork there is more complicated. Same thing in Cyprus but paperwork there is a lot LESS complicated :) done in a week and EUR 140.
rozumem•4mo ago
> What was the visa you applied for
Not a visa technically, but a temporary residency permit based on taking a one year Polish language course. Non-refugee citizenship (don't wish to make my exact citizenship public).
> if you are in the Schengen space
Traveling within Schengen would be more doable I suppose, but I was prevented from traveling outside of Schengen without risking my TRC application being voided. So I was told by multiple gov't people + my lawyer.
> Beckham regime in Spain
Thanks, sounds worth exploring. But my brief 5 minute research on this indicates that freelancers / self employed individuals cannot take advantage of this unless they have a DN visa. Paperwork + wait for Spain to give me DN visa. Then more paperwork for this haha.
Didn't look into Cyprus at all, but it's on my radar now.
anovikov•4mo ago
>Didn't look into Cyprus at all, but it's on my radar now.
Welcome over here :) i've been here for 17 years and super happy.
>a temporary residency permit based on taking a one year Polish language course
Not surprised. This is an obvious bullshit category. In Cyprus we also have a category like that ("visitor"), who aren't even required to pay taxes (they are in principle obliged to, but tax papers are not among the list of those necessary for extension of permit and immigration officials even say you shouldn't pay taxes - which is false). There same - 1-2 year waits, never have cards on hands just extension papers because they expire before they are ready, and application cancelled if you exit country - but that's a bullshit category and everyone knows it.
But seriously, if i was starting immigration from zero now, i'd start with Spain. Currently it has the best system ever + clear path to naturalisation. Only real downside is the language. If you need a lawyer there, contact me - i have a really good one.
rozumem•4mo ago
I agree it's a bullshit category. Even my lawyer said so. But it allowed me to live in Poland legally past three months while my application was being processed. The "hack" was worth it for me. Just wished I could've left Poland and re-entered without issues. AFAIK that limitation and the long wait applied even for those applying for TRC for other more legit reasons. Refugees from Ukraine war had put a lot of stress on the system overall.
Regarding lawyer, noted. The language doesn't scare me as much as the long wait times and inefficient bureaucracy I've heard about Spain. Maybe that's improving.
anovikov•4mo ago
It's totally different one. The most efficient bureaucracy i can imagine. You never have to see any people at all apart from when you take your biometrics. There are fixed review times and if they are missed, your document is automatically approved (i know a few people who got very questionable cases approved this way).
anovikov•4mo ago
rozumem•4mo ago
anovikov•4mo ago
Paperwork in those countries can take years but it only matters if you need entry visas/visas to travel elsewhere, so if you hold a first-world passport, you don't care, you file your paperwork and enjoy the rights of the permit you are applying for, from get go, and it's their problem how long it takes to get done. If you don't have a first world passport then yes, it's a pickle, because foreign embassies or immigration officials won't respect the 'application receipts' instead of a real document.
On the flip side, these countries are democratic and provide a path to citizenship and have a real society to integrate to, not literally 90% expat population who come and go and have both no potential (because no naturalisation) and no incentive, to integrate.
rozumem•4mo ago
> you file your paperwork and enjoy the rights of the permit you are applying for, from get go, and it's their problem how long it takes to get done
I've experienced this in Poland. I was not allowed to leave the country while my paperwork was being processed (which took over a year) or I would not be allowed re-entry. Not sure how other countries operate.
I wholeheartedly agree EU is much better for settling long term, integrating, feeling part of a community, etc... I've had a great time in Poland and EU generally and I'd love to settle there at some point.
But presently I want a place to bunker down for one year and focus. And I found that to be difficult in EU where I'd have to keep moving every 3 months or deal with bureaucracy for a DN visa.
So far, I find Dubai to be a good fit for that time horizon. Zero income tax is a nice perk but wasn't my primary motivation. I also considered the Baltic countries, but shied away from the paperwork, language gap, and lack of a quick turnaround.
anovikov•4mo ago
What was the visa you applied for?? and what is your citizenship. I heard this only about refugees. Also, what does it even mean "to leave the country" if you are in the Schengen space and there are no borders? What if you just re-enter through any other Schengen country?
>Curious what your sources are for zero income tax on business income in Spain and Portugal.
It's called Beckham regime in Spain, named after David Beckham for whom it was originally invented. Officially “Régimen fiscal aplicable a los trabajadores desplazados a territorio español”. If you haven't lived in Spain (haven't been a tax resident) for previous 5 years, and you applied within 6 months of taking up residency, you don't pay anything on foreign-derived dividends, rents, passive interest income, or realised capital gains. So if you hold a company abroad and it pays you dividends, you pay nothing on them. It can be an offshore entity (including yes, a Dubai one!) with no company profit tax, in this case you don't pay shit.
There is a similar thing in Portugal but paperwork there is more complicated. Same thing in Cyprus but paperwork there is a lot LESS complicated :) done in a week and EUR 140.
rozumem•4mo ago
Not a visa technically, but a temporary residency permit based on taking a one year Polish language course. Non-refugee citizenship (don't wish to make my exact citizenship public).
> if you are in the Schengen space
Traveling within Schengen would be more doable I suppose, but I was prevented from traveling outside of Schengen without risking my TRC application being voided. So I was told by multiple gov't people + my lawyer.
> Beckham regime in Spain
Thanks, sounds worth exploring. But my brief 5 minute research on this indicates that freelancers / self employed individuals cannot take advantage of this unless they have a DN visa. Paperwork + wait for Spain to give me DN visa. Then more paperwork for this haha.
Didn't look into Cyprus at all, but it's on my radar now.
anovikov•4mo ago
Welcome over here :) i've been here for 17 years and super happy.
>a temporary residency permit based on taking a one year Polish language course
Not surprised. This is an obvious bullshit category. In Cyprus we also have a category like that ("visitor"), who aren't even required to pay taxes (they are in principle obliged to, but tax papers are not among the list of those necessary for extension of permit and immigration officials even say you shouldn't pay taxes - which is false). There same - 1-2 year waits, never have cards on hands just extension papers because they expire before they are ready, and application cancelled if you exit country - but that's a bullshit category and everyone knows it.
But seriously, if i was starting immigration from zero now, i'd start with Spain. Currently it has the best system ever + clear path to naturalisation. Only real downside is the language. If you need a lawyer there, contact me - i have a really good one.
rozumem•4mo ago
Regarding lawyer, noted. The language doesn't scare me as much as the long wait times and inefficient bureaucracy I've heard about Spain. Maybe that's improving.
anovikov•4mo ago