In Australia, AnimeLab used to be the gold standard. It had a polished app and dedicated team, mainly because it started out as a piracy site and went legal, keeping the passionate team etc.
They got bought out by Funimation and the app was shelved in favour of Funimation’s far worse but still usable one. Then Funimation was bought out by crunchyroll and their app was also shelved for crunchy’s terrible one. I kept paying for a while after that but after a few instances of missing subs and poor releases I gave up and just kept my Japan side subscriptions going, while getting my Australian side content ‘elsewhere’.
I’m sad the market doesn’t seem big enough to support a new competitor with a focus on quality, but as mentioned in TFA, exclusivity deals make this even harder than it otherwise would be. Shame really, as lately the releases from even the various smaller anime studios have been rather excellent.
Australia is a tiny market but before the big american companies bought them out, our local AnimeLab offering was one of the worlds best. If a new similarly oriented offering could launch and compete I’d love to see it, but sadly only pirate operations can do so, and are doing so effectively.
Which is what we have on the music side of things. You can choose Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music etc based on how their service works for you rather than what music you want to listen to.
And don't get me wrong I love concerts and merch, but I'd rather people earn a reasonable living without needing to be on tour basically in perpetuity.
There was a lot of unrealistic hype that software magic could make everything between the consumer and the producer practically free, and that just hasn't happened and probably never will. Engineers need to get paid and infrastructure needs to get maintained too.
What streaming has cannibalized is album sales, which is the problematic aspect. The fixed price-per-month to access a vast library of music is a killer value prospect for the consumer, which is why Spotify et al have succeeded as they have. However, again, it's bad for the artists; they don't make shit. And I mean, think about the economics there and it'll become evident why: previously to access between 10 and 20 songs depending on the album costed you about $10-15, one time purchase, but it was yours for the life of the media. Now you're paying (if you're paying) about $15-20 per month to access all of the music ever. And yeah there's less cost, no printed CDs, no shipping, no retail markup, but come on, if you have 4 CDs in your spotify library and are on the most expensive family plan, which IIRC is about $30/month, you're already ahead by 50%. That doesn't bode well for the artist's revenue split.
Looking only at CDs ca. 2005, which sold at about $15 each, an album that went platinum (1 million sales) would gross $15 million in retail, probably $10 million in wholesale, leaving about $1-3 million for the artist depending on contract terms. Estimates seem to put Spotify compensation at $3000 paid to the artist per million plays. So, you'd need somewhere between 333 million and 1 billion plays to get comparable revenue to a platinum album.
"Blinding Lights" by The Weeknd is currently the most-streamed song on Spotify at 5 billion plays [1]. That's roughly equivalent to a 5-15x platinum album from a single song and streaming platform alone; the record for most platinum album seems to be 34x platinum for Michael Jackson's Thriller [2], which had 7 songs that all were hits to some degree or another. Michael Jackson did a lot besides just record the songs; he also put out elaborate music videos and went on showy tours. All told, there are more than 100 songs with more than 1 billion plays on Spotify (in fact, the 100th is still above 2.4 billion plays).
So, I think, the situation has not really gotten worse.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spotify_streaming_reco...
Solid comparison, and illustrates the issue pretty well I feel.
> "Blinding Lights" by The Weeknd is currently the most-streamed song on Spotify at 5 billion plays [1]. That's roughly equivalent to a 5-15x platinum album from a single song and streaming platform alone; the record for most platinum album seems to be 34x platinum for Michael Jackson's Thriller [2], which had 7 songs that all were hits to some degree or another. Michael Jackson did a lot besides just record the songs; he also put out elaborate music videos and went on showy tours. All told, there are more than 100 songs with more than 1 billion plays on Spotify (in fact, the 100th is still above 2.4 billion plays).
So then let's bear that out. I don't have the data on the Thriller album for for the sake of argument, we'll rely on a quick google which says it was about $8 in 1982. I'll use the same split you did (33% off for wholesale, about 30% of which went to the artist) so if we run all that down, with US sales being 35 million units. So $55.44 million went to Michael, if we assume all of that is true and correct, which adjusted for inflation would be about 184 million dollars.
We'll compare that to the Weeknd's streams for Blinding Lights. We'll put him on the high end of receiving a half a penny per play, that works out to about 30 million dollars, for as you point out, the highest streamed song on the platform.
It's still not quite a 1:1, unfortunately, but: Michael Jackson with 7 hit songs of varying popularity was able to shift 35 million albums for a personal profit of 184 million in 2025 dollars, versus the Weeknd, who with the most popular song on Spotify, made $30 million.
And it's worth pointing out here, these are both superstar heavy hitters. The story gets a lot worse for any artist not in that category.
Ideally, like music, we'd get multiple vendors offering downloads that are high quality copy of video that isn't DRM encumbered.
But currently, we don't get this, and the closest legitimate way (modulo the DMCA...) to get video as a file is to buy physical media and rip it.
Serious shades of Gabe Newell's "it's a service problem, not a pricing problem" around all of this.
completely agree - i think the gov't regulatory body should change the landscape to what film and cinema have; such that distributor of media cannot own and monopolize the broadcast rights on their own platform, and publisher of media be forced to sell/license at the same price to all distributors.
This way, a streaming service can always know and pay for a broadcasting license for _any_ media, and all media must be license-able for any streaming service (at the same price), thus no monopoly can exist under this system.
I'll be shocked if anime isn't available on YouTube.
You can also interpret that as I'll be shocked if AI doesn't result in every mangaka becoming their own small studio and distributing via YouTube.
No fuss. It’s basically a 1-click operation. $2.99 or whatever to watch your movie in good quality.
In 2002 it was and I really liked it then.
You can look to the past to see what this might look like in the future:
- Publishing in the digital publishing era.
- Indie Gaming in the Steam Greenlight era.
- Indie music in the digital recording / DAW era.
- Trying to make it as an actor or musician in general.
- YouTuber careers vs. "YouTube poop"
- Trying to make it as a streamer / influencer
Novelty, self-promo, luck, preparation, right place/right time, likeability -- there are lots of things that can come together to make it work. But it's still a lot of work.
It was a deliberate choice that removed some of the value of the service and wiped out yet another swath of Internet history. The core is of course the videos, they can coast on that for a while, but it’s the changes like that add up that make Crunchyroll less competitive going forward, especially as other larger services acquire larger anime libraries.
I'm sure there was an extremely vocal minority that threw a fit when they killed it off, but I doubt their overall subscriber numbers were significantly impacted. The majority of people are just there to watch anime. There's plenty of subreddits that are vastly more suitable to discussion.
Calling the Crunchyroll anime comment section a community is a bit of a stretch, it's like saying that the comments under a TikTok video are a community.
My original point stands.
A company gets successful off the back of community engagement and builds great shared sentiment with its customers. They get bought, the incoming board members start cutting costs, accidentally cutting the artery they didn't realise fed the heart of the brand.
The company loses an edge the board didn't realise it had, and people slowly lose that connection, which allows them to painlessly jump ship to the next company with the same catalog but better sentiment brand.
Am I missing something here? (I don't use TikTok).
- The comment section under a youtube video is a community.
- The comments on the side of Instagram pictures is a community.
- Twitch chat is a community.
- Even Imgur has a community. I'm surprised that's a thing, but they do.
And.. it's actually better if absolutely everything is on Crunchyroll. One subscription and you're set. Or I am, at least. Having to hunt around to figure out where some particular show can be found.. subscribe there only for watching that particular one.. mostly it can't be done, in my region, and I absolutely don't want to.
Which of course also gives CR no competition, and that's the price we pay. When the quality has gone down enough, the alternative isn't moving to a competitor, it's to give up on anime altogether.
Plan B is of course to get my Japanese up to a level sufficient to be able to turn off the subs, at least any potential problem there will be gone.
I pay much less for CR than for Netflix, I would rather pay more on Crunchyroll if this could guarantee a certain quality. Netflix, on the other hand, is basically a giant waste of money for me. That I haven't cancelled yet is just lazyness.
Was always fun reading the top comments on big episodes. Finding those few other ppl who noticed that one small thing at timestamp 14:30, dunking on the first episode of the latest garbage isekai... etc
> dunking on the first episode of the latest garbage isekai
I was literally reaching to see if somebody else had already made a lame-ass “Truck-kun” joke on the first episode of No Longer Allowed in Another World or if I was going to have to provide a fill when I saw the change.
Initially, the two had a deal where Funimation would allow subtitle-only versions of series to appear on Crunchyroll, while Funimation would focus on the dub audience. In November 2018 some corporate hijinks happened, and the alliance was considered no longer viable. Funi pulled about 240 series from Crunchyroll, amounting to nearly 20% of Crunchyroll's library at the time.
When the merger happened in 2024, Funimation's shutdown FAQ implied that Funimation's content would be available on Crunchyroll, and even encouraged users to cancel their Funimation subscription and subscribe to Crunchyroll going forward. However, there are still some 182 series which never made it back to Crunchyroll, even though they had been there before. There are just a bunch of anime that aren't legitimately available on any streaming service any more.
A generous explanation would be that the localized subtitles under the Japanese audio are licensed for use with that audio only, but that’s pure conjecture, and even if that’s the case, there is no excuse for how terrible the captions can be.
The official translator should in theory have the Japanese closed captioning and copies of the anime's original manga or light novel to work from, as well as a direct line to the original studio for clarifications on spelling. In practice, I suspect they aren't given enough resources (particularly time) to do this, and the exact romanization of fictional names is not always clear from the katakana or so. Lately there are so many fantasy series where characters have made-up European-sounding names which don't translate unambiguously from katakana - is it Chilchuck or Chilchack, for example?
Years later it turned out some of the giants had classes / types and the title was a reference to the Attack type of giant. Thus the English title would've been better as "The Attack Titan", and indeed the Japanese title could also have been interpreted as that, though it's only obvious in hindsight. The Japanese title was likely deliberately intended to have the double-meaning "Attack of Titans" and "The Attack Titan", though this double-meaning cannot be conveyed in English, and in fact we're now stuck due to inertia with a third English rendering that is completely disconnected from either meaning.
Actually, another quirk is the German lyric in the first season's opening theme. Crunchyroll doesn't usually translate opening or ending lyrics, but translating the lyrics was standard practice in the fansub era, so the. However, they misheard the lyric as "Sie sind das Essen und wir sind die Jäger" - "You are the food and we are the hunters" - as if the line is spoken by the Titans (perhaps the English-speaking audience is primed to the Germans being the bad guys in movies). The actual lyric was revealed in official Japanese sources as spoken from the perspective of the humans: "Seid ihr das Essen? Nein, wir sind die Jäger!" - "Are we the food? No, we are the hunters!" However, the incorrect lyric persists among fans because the second opening theme superceded the first before the error was widely noted in the English speaking anime community.
Of course, I just went back to scrub for examples and either I am remembering incorrectly which shows demonstrated it most frequently or they’ve fixed Zeta Gundam in the spots I’ve checked.
If only. I wish they would stop localizing it. Just give me the raw episodes. It seems like every site outside of Japan insists on ruing it by putting English on top of it. Unfortunately the economics of the situation means that sites will server the interests of tourists instead of otaku, so it's unlikely to ever change.
I feel like one reason is that subtitles in Japan never match what the characters actually say. A character may say "I've missed you so much. It's been so long." The subtitles will read "Hey. Long time. " (both quotes would be Japanese) Not sure why but the Japanese subtitle industry is just terrible in so many ways.
This is standard in closed captions and is not specific to Japan. So perhaps the service you're talking about only has closed captions and is incorrectly marking them as subtitles.
Funnily enough, the complaints you have here actually apply more to English subtitles in my experience. Modern English subtitles tend to accurately transcribe what was said, but if you look at official subtitles from the mid-2000s and earlier you'll see that most subtitles are made much shorter than the original text. Tom Scott's video on subtitling talks about this historical practice and how it is different today[1].
Are you sure that the subtitle services you used are actually using official subtitles, and that they aren't actually translations or from some other source? How old are the shows you're watching (I believe some movies from the 70s I watched were character-accurate but that might not have been as common in the past)?
If you don't understand the above, then you don't want raw episodes after all.
One question if you have a minute. Why is it アメリカだけに吹き替えされている instead of 英語だけに吹き替えされている?
英語に吹き替える to dub in English (the base case of 吹き替える)
英語だけに吹き替える to dub just in English (だけ + に)
アメリカだけに吹き替える to dub, just because it's America / as you'd expect of America (だけに grammar https://tanosuke.com/n2-dakeni)
Good luck in your studies.
I'd be willing to wager Netflix, which has a fair amount of anime, can do the same.
What site(s) are you referring to?
I flip pretty frequently between Chinese and English subs and it'll remember the last setting between episodes / shows / etc.
look, buddy, anime is mainstream now
It wound up being quite a large document!
But the thing to realize here is that, all of these subs have to be placed by hand. There are AI tools that can help you match in and out times, but they have a difficult time matching English subs to Japanese dialogue. So what you have to do is have a human with some small grasp of Japanese place each of these in/out times by hand.
If you’re really good you can do one 25 minute episode in about 35 minutes. But that’s ONLY if you don’t spend any extra time coloring and moving the subs around the screen (as you would song and sign captions).
Elite tier subs can take up to two or even three or four hours per episode. That’s why the best subs, are always fan subs! Because a business will never put in 8x more time on an episodes subtitles than “bare minimum.”
Crunchy roll looks to have at least gone halfway for a while… but multiply those times across thousands of episodes over X years… and you can see why some manager somewhere finally decided 35 minutes was good enough.
I am in the Product world now, and I do think this was a bad move. Anime fans LOVE anime. The level of customer delight (and hate) in the anime industry is like no other. I really miss the excitement that my customers would get (and happily telegraph!) when I launched a product in those days. Which is all to say, you HAVE to factor delight into your product. Especially with a super fan base like you have in anime.
Another thing that happens is time code shifts that come from differences in frame rate between source material and what the subtitlers end up with (eg 24 vs 23.98 if I’m remembering correctly), which can cause subs to have what we called “ramping” issues over time (timing gets less and less accurate). So you have to go through and reset all the lines anyway.
That being said, we DID do this sometimes, but maybe that takes your time down to 25 minutes, the hard minimum possible time to accurately subtitle a 25 minute show.
And translators hated having to add the times codes (or copy paste their translations over the CCs) — they preferred to just give a script to the subtitler and let them handle it. And actually, if it’s a really good subtitler, they can! In about 35 mins.
So I think the translators were probably right to push back, as it’s only 10 minute savings for probably >10 mins on their part.
- Japanese has very different word order and word lengths, and furthermore some constructions that are short and natural in Japanese have no universally good English parallel. (Vice versa as well, of course, but that’s not really a problem here.) To give a sense of the alienness at play here, Japanese is essentially postfix throughout, that is the most literal counterpart of “the car [that you saw yesterday]” is “[[you SUBJECT] yesterday saw] car”; and it also has no way to join sentences that would not make one of them potentially subordinate to the other (like the “and” before the semicolon does in this sentence). Virtually anything longer than a single line has to be retimed (and occasionally edited for length).
- “Forced” subtitles for captions, on-screen text, etc. are simply absent in the original, for lack of need. True believers (like GP apparently used to be) will try to match the positioning and even typesetting of the on-screen original, either replacing or supplementing it. (Those aren’t your run of the mill SRT subs, ASS is a completely different level of functionality.)
One of my favourite things that clearly makes sense and sounds natural in Japanese but obviously doesn't translate well to English is "that person".
Every now and then you'll see some line of dialogue in an anime where someone says "Oh no, if this mark is showing up then we could see the return of _that person_." - which appears to be a way to refer to someone in the third person who the speaker knows but the listener doesn't - a linguistic "he who shall not be named", or "at least he who I'm not naming at this specific moment".
Discussion here, it seems: https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/llpqxt/is_that_perso...
* Almost all Japanese subtitles include subtitles for every noise made as well as including SDH-like information about sounds. This means that a naive attempt to just match up subtitle timings won't work -- the English translation will have fewer subtitles and you will have to skip Japanese lines that do not have an equivalent in the English transcript.
* Most translated subtitles simplify things and have to re-organise sentence structures to match the target language, which means that you often have to pick different timings for how a sentence is broken up in English than in the original Japanese. Sometimes a very short Japanese phrase requires two sentences to accurately translate, sometimes a long Japanese sentence can be translated into a fairly short English phrase.
* Higher-quality subtitles will also provide translations for signs and other on-screen text (ASS supports custom placement, fonts, styles, and colours -- it is powerful enough to the point where some of the really good fansub jobs I've seen make it look like the video was actually localised to English because all of the signs look like they have been translated in the original video). The original timings don't help with this.
It's wild to hear someone - especially someone in the industry - say that. Fans definitely bring the most enthusiasm to their work, but fan subs are notorious for mistranslations and awkward hyperliteralism.
Similarly there are some phrases which are probably unavoidably awkward. Like when translating vaguely as “that guy”.
funny to see the comment. I was rewatching JoJo, this time in dub, and just came across a line like this. (the context is a fight between two 19th century British characters in a very theatrical setting):
Sub: "Stop the futile, useless resistance. Don't hide in the curtain's shadows and come out!"
Dub: "You're behind the curtain, like Polonius. And, like Polonius, it is there that you shall meet your end."
I was so surprised that they threw in the Hamlet reference it's what made me look up what the original Japanese line was. The English dub writing often strikes me just as straight up better the more I watch of it.
It is quite tricky and this Shakespeare reference might be a little bit out of context...
P.S. For an example of when "yes" might really mean "no", I heard an anecdote. An American guy had been hired by a Japanese company to work in their offices in Japan and be a liaison to foreign businessmen. He was attending a meeting once where everyone but him was Japanese. The boss presented an idea. There was silence for about 10-15 seconds, then people said things like "Yes, that's a good idea, let's do that." The American left the meeting thinking that the idea had been approved, only to have his Japanese colleague explain to him that the key part was the silence. The boss clearly heard and understood the message that his employees didn't think it was a good idea, and the idea was dropped and never mentioned again.
So I could see a case where the character says "Yes" but the subtext is "No", and that would be clearly understood by a Japanese viewer. Different translators would choose different approaches there; some might translate the text, and some might translate the subtext. I'm curious to know if this was a case like that, or if it was a clear-cut case of one translation being right and the other one being flat-out wrong.
IIRC it was the DVD release of Tenchi Forever.
I guess I could be the odd one out but I'm not keen on the 'localisation' efforts that replace the cultural elements of the underlying media, e.g. how in Ace Attorney ramen is replaced with t-bone steaks (iirc?), prompting the meme 'Eat your hamburgers, Apollo'
"Are you not a student?"
In English, the non-student speaker would respond with "No", short for "No, I am not."
In Japanese, the non-student speaker would respond with "Yes", short for "Yes that's correct."
A literal translation would make this mistake.
(Native American English speaker.)
French draws this distinction; ordinary 'yes' is oui; 'yes' contradicting a negative is si instead.
Mandarin gives you a variety of options for how to respond. You can use equivalents of 'yes' and 'no', but it's more common to echo the verb in the question.
你喜欢吃辣的吗？("Do you like eating spicy food?")
不喜欢 ("[I] don't like [it].")
Here we have no need to worry about whether the question was positive or negative; if I like the food I'll say 喜欢 and if I don't I'll say 不喜欢.
It's also possible to say 对 "correct", in which case it does matter how the question was phrased.
The specific question here, 你不是学生吗 "Are you not a student?", might be a little odder than usual because the verb 是 is also what's used for a simple "yes". But for "No, I'm not" 不是 is unambiguous, and I have a vague gut feeling that 是啊 would probably be taken as "Yes, I am". And of course you have the option of continuing your response ("yes, I'm a student, I've been enrolled here for two years") if you feel the short answer was too cryptic.
Source: I once said "So I guess you don't want to do the long-distance thing" to a native English speaker and she said "no" meaning she did, while I interpreted it the way you suggest and we (briefly) were not on the same page as to whether or not we were in a relationship.
“You didn’t go?” → “No, I didn’t go” (agreeing) or “Yes, I went” (disagreeing).
In Japanese, you should say “yes, I didn’t go” or “yes, I didn’t go”:
行かなかったんですか。→ はい、行きませんでした。(agreeing with the negative) or いいえ、行きました。(disagreeing with the negative)
(This difference possibly shows the more fundamental difference in the cultures, where one values truth more, and one values agreement/harmony more.)
I’m not saying that’s what happened to you, just that it wouldn’t necessarily be wrong to see it.
I'd be extremely wary of ascribing any cultural significance to the language modes here. Negation and especially affirmative/negative responses to negative questions is just extremely variable among languages. Even languages in the same language family just end up doing it differently.
In Japanese, you should say “yes, I didn’t go” or “no, I did go”:
Just according to keikaku.
Translator's note: "Keikaku" means plan
3-4 hours of time for a sub must be a rounding error for the production costs of these shows. No?
Or, this could be reflection of that "the kaigai" mindset rapidly changing causing prices to skyrocket. Anime is exclusively made in Japan(with outsource efforts from all over East Asia, but always concentrated back into Japan), so there's no competition. Zero competition over nonzero demand -> +Inf price.
Either ways, it does feel that licensing model could be key to understanding this.
However, there is somebody in charge of subtitles, and they don't really care about overall business outcomes. So if they can reduce the budget of their department by squeezing typesetting, they win on an objective metric at the cost of a subjective (ie ignored) one.
While it's true crunchyroll has a lot of the anime market, there are more streaming platforms than ever right now, and people don't just consume a fixed amount of legal anime episodes per week, forever unchanging. If they have it in their head that they cannot gain or lose subscribers, that's extremely short-sighted.
And we're talking a difference of ~7 hours of labor. $200 difference at most?
$100k per month is extra revenue, if they do a half-assed job. A customer actually has no competitor to move to - crunchyroll has a defacto monopoly (barring piracy).
The price of the subscription is already adjusted to be the maximum of what the market would bear for maximum revenue - presumably raising that price higher would lead to lower subscribers and revenue.
That’s the key right there.
When fansubs were good, Crunchyroll was forced to compete with them on quality. It's hard to convince people to pay when the alternative is both free and much higher quality.
Now that they've driven fansubs groups "out of business", they no longer face the same degree of competitive pressure to deliver a quality product.
They have 17 million paying subscribers. If they subtitled 1,000 episodes of content a month * 200$ = 200k / 17 million ~= 1 cent per subscriber per month. Actual cost per subscriber is well below that.
Outside of Asia, Crunchyroll is a de-facto monopoly on legal anime. From the article, 70% of new releases are exclusive to Crunchyroll. They're not losing customers to platforms with better subs, because customers have no alternative.
(Besides pirating, but I assume the golden age of Tier 1 fan subs is over)
That's just because the legal options were easily available, right? Kind of like people stopped pirating as much when Netflix was actually decent. But now the tides are turning again, so maybe the fan subs will start coming back as well.
Still, though, I wonder if that mindset is still going to be around.
I remember seeing (I think Netflix release) of Komi-san can't communicate, noticing A lot of things being missed, like Komi's literal main manner of communication (A notebook where she writes) not getting any translation for some episodes, or a lot of things I'd have to fill others in that normally at least would have been a T/N in fansub
It was bad enough that I went looking elsewhere to see if I had missed more than I realized, and the fansub did have everything covered
Here's the answer right here...
* Shonen anime, which are consistently the most popular ones, are also on netflix and probably several other services. Eg, demon slayer, dandadan, etc.
* there are still shows that are japan-exclusive because nobody bothers to license them. Roboshinkalion is an entire franchise that nobody cares to import! We actually had to wait two extra years for gridman universe because nobody bothered to license it for English localization!
* just this year they failed to obtain the rights to Mobile Suit Gundam G-Quuuuuux and Panty and Stocking With Garterbelt because amazon outbid them. These are both new entries in well-established brands and they're both made by studios with large fan followings (khara for g-quuuuuux and trigger for panty and stocking).
* somehow Hulu ended up breaking harmony gold's 45-year blockade around the macross franchise and won exclusive streaming rights.
* netflix has a lot of exclusives these days, including Jojo stone ocean and the upcoming steelball run.
They should probably consider that this competitor is actually mpv playing the DRM-free blu-ray quality fully subtitled mkv files obtained for a grand total of zero dollars from organized groups of people who simply care about anime to an absurd degree.
"Paying customer" is a synonym for "fool" in this context. Paying for inferior products is just foolish. It is damaging to one's self-respect. It is even more damaging for the reputation of the corporation. A bunch of fans regularly put them to shame by releasing better products on a daily basis. That's just pathetic.
But still, I often find myself watching anime from fansub groups even though I have a legitimate, official way of watching them. Paying for a streaming service that is objectively, significantly worse than even the shittier pirate offerings does make me feel like a fool.
Not unheard of, but probably harder than hiring for a call center, and more need to prevent high rotation due to difficulty in finding replacements.
Edit: not that I disagree with your general idea, just pointing out potential issues.
It's not just about translation, after all, but localization. While you can (or kind of have to) assume some level of familiarity with Japanese life/culture for someone watching anime, it's easier for a native English speaker/someone who grew up in North America to notice cultural disconnects and figure them out.
An example I once heard: a book in Italian might say the character "ordered a coffee" and then "picked up the coffee, drank it, and walked out of the cafe". An Italian without as much consideration of American culture might translate that directly, but someone who understands localization would know that Italian character ordered what we would call an espresso, and know to change the text to be specific; otherwise, it sounds as though the person is guzzling an entire mug of black coffee on the spot, which would likely come across as psychotic and unnerving compared to taking a single shot of espresso.
Likewise, an Italian reader of an American novel might be unable to comprehend how or why an American character could spend 20 minutes nursing a cup of coffee, because they might be picturing a 1-2 oz espresso rather than a drip coffee.
So yeah, that's the big part of why it can't just be someone who knows English to some sufficient degree - because without fluency in spoken and written English, familiarity with how things would be said in English, and cultural differences between Japan and North America, you're going to end up with all kinds of dissonance.
These are the questions that would get played out in the decision process.
And yet I can't think of a single large corporation that actually has this mindset anymore. The current mindset of management is that any delight your customers take in the product is a sign that either the price should have been higher or costs cut until the product is merely satisfactory rather than delightful.
Nvidia has garnered a lot of hate from the gaming community. Completely dishonest marketing, purposefully gimped hardware that barely gets enough RAM to function. Everyone wishes there would be more competition in this space.
Sure some studios still care about their customers but any huge corporations is bound to become a rotting corpse of its former self over time.
Per most reviewers (e.g. Digital Foundry), the Switch 2 is expensive but not over-priced for what you get (unless what you get is motion sickness from the overdriven LCD display).
There's a stark difference between "expensive" and "overpriced". A lot of people have said over the years that Apple's laptops were "overpriced", when what they really meant was that they could get something good enough for their needs for lower prices. Lots of people still bought them because it was worth it to them.
Likewise, the Switch 2 is expensive, and it is not worth it to everyone, but for a lot of people it's not "overpriced"; I would point to the Switch 2's sales numbers as the fastest selling console in history to indicate that most people don't seem to feel the same way.
> with super expensive games.
Correction: every other gaming platform has super cheap games. If game prices had kept up with inflation since I was a kid playing on the NES, we'd be paying well over $100-120 for games these days. They're definitely more expensive than other games, but (as one example) if I play Mario Kart World half as much as I played Mario Kart 8 Deluxe then I'm getting better value for my money than almost any other entertainment I've ever paid for.
Again, not worth it to everyone, but not unreasonable also. It sucks, but still.
except that it doesn't show up as revenue. That's where the problem is - people would obviously prefer to have elite tier subs, but not be willing to pay elite tier prices for it.
The real problem with all these brand killing enshittification moves is the delay until consequences manifest.
In fact, you might even consider paying less for crunchyroll subscription, and buy more of the merch of your favourite franchises.
In fact, the traditional model of television is that you give the show away for free and hope to make money on popularity.
If you produce music, there are multiple companies right now who sell the service of "we will upload your music to every streaming platform, so that anyone who wants to listen to it for free can do that".
Would you be willing to crowdfund such an enterprise? It’s one thing to say you’ll put your money where your mouth is in some hypothetical future economic situation that may never arrive (as it was never funded by you or by anyone else), whereas it’s altogether another thing entirely to actually do what you say you’ll do in hopes that your investment will come good.
The amount of laughably bad upscales making BDs worse than the previous DVDs is just the cherry on top showing that they truly don't care about anyone with taste or discernment; they should put the DVD masters untouched on BD and they very rarely do so (Di Gi Charat had that).
Cannot overstate this enough. Fans are the ones who actually care. To an almost pathological degree.
Anime fansubbing is a major reason why our video players even have excellent subtitling support to begin with.
Many music fans will obssess over ripping quality and lossless encodings to the point of delusion.
I've seen people care so much about some film they they somehow spliced together two different blu-rays to make the ultimate version because some parts were better on the disc from a specific region.
Star Wars fans cared so much they spent tens of thousands of dollars and years of their lives to resurrect negatives from the 70s that even the creator himself had disowned:
https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/Project-4K77/
Always bet on guys who care. Corporations will never be able to compete. They simply do not give a shit. They want money for minimum viable products. These guys do it out of love.
At least one of the Chinese streaming services (I think possibly iQIYI) crowdsources improved translations directly in the app, presumably relying on the irritation factor of early adopters stuck with the MTL-grade int'l subs supplied by many C-drama production companies.
Karaoke and typesetting can of course take longer (I remember someone complaining about how much effort it was to typeset every single book name in some scene that had a bookshelf) though karaoke is usually ~3 minutes of unique content (OP & ED) per ~12 episodes. Typesetting depends heavily on anime, like isekais don't usually have a lot Japanese writing anyway.
That seems like something you might legitimately skip. Most books that appear in the background of a scene aren't relevant.
On the other hand, the example image in the article, where there's a big banner hung on the wall reading "Rana-chan's Surprise Party", seems like something you'd want to translate.
This statement is incorrect. All artistic endeavors are matters of habit and taste. You absolutely can improve at matters of taste
Good old substationalpha ssa/ass timing memories.
Thank you for this. Great perspective.
Even with stuff at this hobby/mature level, the difference in someone actually taking care with the subtitles is not even close to subtle. It makes a huge difference.
The host was an air force officer that'd been stationed in Okinawa for a while and fell in love with anime there. When he came back to the states he got friends to buy and ship him laserdiscs of anime from Japan on a regular basis, and showing those to friends gradually became the club.
Fun enough we'd host lan parties pretty often too. This was back when you had to daisychain coax ethernet, and one person having to leave meant everything had to shut down for a bit lol.
In the pre broadband era there was this sort of local collaboration in a way that I miss, but I'm also not blinded to the negatives of that era. Like the anime club had some very enthusiastic loli fans that with the benefit of adult hindsight were way past the creep line and definitely had a chilling effect.
Nowadays SubsPlease floods the market with their Crunchyroll rips.
Also, I tried watching Komi-san on Netflix but it was atrocious - the timing and placements were so bad it was actually unwatchable.
Each show is subtitled by a team of volunteers. (Generally one team per sub language.)
I watched 大江大河 ("Like a Flowing River"; the English name seems to have no particular relation to the Chinese name) on Viki. But between that series and the sequel (大江大河2), Viki lost the license to stream it.
So now both series are on YouTube, provided by some other party. Viki's subtitles are permissively licensed, so season 1 is up there still using the Viki subtitles.
Viki never got to show season 2, and the new publisher had to provide those subtitles itself. Unfortunately, they tend to be unintelligible gibberish. I was eventually able to watch season 2 after I found a set of fansubs on reddit.
I've noticed that Netflix and Amazon Prime now offer Korean dramas, and it made me wonder if that had something to do with Viki's struggles. But this wasn't even a Korean show.
On the topic of crunchyroll, they could fix their subtitle problems while spending less money by just moving to Viki's system.
I mean I guess there's a very long tail of mediocre shows as well that get thousands of streams at best, but still.
Of course, the typesetting would take 8 hours, but timing was always easy.
- Japanese distributors wouldn't need middle-men for airing their shows abroad. They'd just stop region gate it and let fans inject the translation through their players. That could be the toughest pill to swallow for Japanese production houses, many are just allergic to opening up, but that would be so great.
They could still license in specific countries (US?) or specific purposes (theatrical release, BD etc) provided it isn't exclusive.
- good translators would have a shot at asking for more money. Fans who don't give a damn could still get freeish half auto translated stuff, while the deeper fandom could support their people.
- "long tail" countries could get their translations as well. There's just no way CR ever does Zimbabwe subs, but a few hundreds of fans could pay some guy to make it for them against a canonical video file bought from the content owner. win-win.
Ultimately, there will be a concern that it devalues the translation process, leading to translators getting paid less, not more.
Anime viewers tend to be passionate, I think there's a reasonable chance to have groups emerge with a reputation to defend and getting paid more than they are now (which could be 0)
This already exists today -- translation groups rush to be the first to translate a new series, and some fans have strong preferences around which groups provide the best translations (both in terms of accuracy and style). You can see the set of groups doing translations on the AniDB page for any Anime you like.
Make sure the editorial board is paid a living wage and the translators are too. Set up a marketplace for a dozen such organizations, and let them compete. All the incentives align.
There already is (at least for subs). In the wise words of Gabe Newell, piracy is a service problem.
What does it even mean? The IP[1] holding single-purpose LLCs[2] have no means of distribution on its own. They commission sweatshops and license the artifacts to TV stations and streaming services. They can sell to Western streaming services like Netflix or send in brochures to American TV stations, in case they're taking it, but if they aren't taking it, then they aren't taking it.
I guess they can set up an IP to be worldwide exclusive on nicovideo.jp and let anyone pay for nicovideo.jp Premium subscription through VISA. But how many is going to actually sign up and how long will VISA work if it worked?
Japanese companies being "just allergic to opening up" is definitely half of the story or more, but it's also not the whole picture. The masses, and the distributors that can reach the masses, are also involved.
1: as in intellectual property, copyright, not the set of octets
2: the oft in-universe-named entity like "Julius Deane Import Export" shown in the copyright line
Other groups like DMM or Fuji already have their direct platform where they also stream their own content. Except they fiercely cut it from foreign registration.
They all already accept credit cards, and could further cut H content from foreign audiences if needed.
If they wanted to, they could open it internationaly tomorrow.
I will mention that youtube has pretty good subtitle capabilities, even if they're rarely used.
Yep, their srv3 format is very usable, although it is in many ways inferior to ASS (animations have to be done manually in discrete timesteps, although YTSubConverter does that for you I think, and no crazy stuff like shape drawing or 3d transforms). Does support ruby text though which ASS currently doesn't.
I think the worst thing about it is actually that YouTube is not doing very well in getting people to use it. For example they don't support most of the format's functionality in any client that isn't the web one[1]. Additionally I don't think there's even an official way to create these complex subtitles, you have to use unofficial tools like YTSubConverter.
If anyone is interested, I am working on a library for rendering srv3 (and some WebVTT) here[2]. Maybe if we had widespread support people would use it more? That seems like very wishful thinking though :)
[1] I suspect this is because they have to work within the constraints of whatever UI frameworks they're using for apps. It does not seem possible to implement compliant web text layout (pretty complicated!) on top of such higher level systems.
More likely the translators, probably native English speakers, intentionally decided to use 'authentic', 'historical' Chinese names (as modern mandarn speakers would write them in pinyin) rather than the Japanese ones?
I agree that the effect could be really confusing though, and it's not what I would do!
(IIRC the fan translations of the Manga also gradually decided to change to use Chinese versions of the historical names, which I also found confusing - especially as they have kept some of the old Japanese names ones, so...it's a weird mix...)
Kingdom at least has some connection to historical places/people so it kind of makes sense.
Thunderbolt Fantasy on the other hand is completely original/fictional in setting and characters, and yet still uses the Chinese names in the subtitles. While it is a joint Taiwanese-Japanese project, the only available audio is Japanese. So none of the completely made up names ever match between audio and subtitles.
And then there's Dragon Ball with e.g. Son Goku who is named after the Monkey King from Journey to the West but nobody ever refers to him as Sun Wukong.
For instance the current PRC chairman, Xi Jinping, has an alphabet reading close to Chinese, but Japanese news will call him along the lines of "Shu Kinpei", which sounds absolutely nothing near the original name, but is how someone would read the name assuming it was Japanese and with no pronounciations hints. They just don't care much about the sounds when it comes Asian names, even in official settings.
And then even with all that additional capacity at hand, the proposed solution is replacing the rarely politically addled subs with mostly nonsensical AI generated rubbish, because that is such a reasonable alternative. Some people really deserve what's coming for them it seems. Just wish normal people didn't have to along for the ride.
What about AI being politically biased by the way? Or is that talking point already forgotten?
If I have to choose between funding political zealot humans and political zealot AI, I pick the later. At least AI aren't boasting and insulting there customer on social media about "fixing" art for the greater good.
https://boundingintocomics.com/manga/interview-fan-and-profe...
That link is exclusively about manga translations at a skim btw, which I'll admit I know nothing about. Stopped reading any a long time ago.
> At least AI aren't narcissistically spitting in your face when circle jerking on social media about "fixing" art for the greater good.
Isn't this also a voice actor thing? I mostly remember these with regards to EN gacha game voice actors (US EN specifically).
Then you have not paid attention at all. Almost every season there is a case like this same with LNs and VNs to a point where it's not even news worthy anymore.
> I mostly remember these with regards to EN gacha game voice actors
No there are multiple people that are infamous anime localizers that are gloating on Twitter how they fix anime by pushed there political agenda, anybody engaging with the medium beyond surface level would know.
I'll readily admit to not caring about the people or the process behind how anime are made. I consider that a separate side of the hobby entirely. It is an unfortunate side effect of social media that I can less and less ignore these aspects, including VAs blackwashing characters and other utterly puzzling antics. It's not something I seek out myself, I watch the shows for themselves. 0% apologetic about this too
That said, if there's such an influence on the translations, I'd prefer to be rid of it of course. Which brings us to...
> Then you have not paid attention at all. Almost every season there is a case like this
That is entirely possible. Do you maybe have like a short list of examples? From the last few seasons then, at least a handful. Cause "infamous anime localizers that are gloating on Twitter how they fix anime by pushed there political agenda" sounds very readily bad, and yet a quick search (via AI, of course) left me completely empty handed beyond the high profile case of "Dragon Maid", and the lesser but still talked about "My first girlfriend is a gyaru" (which didn't do much other than namedropping SJWs iirc, a now outdated term).
https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2021/04/23/localizer-goes-on-...
That's only one show from one localizer and they and many others have been doing this for almost 10 years.
Gonna stand by this angle being way overblown. Thanks for at least bringing receipts though nevertheless.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220717182807/https://twitter.c...
https://web.archive.org/web/20220218214341/https://twitter.c...
https://web.archive.org/web/20210410233042/https://twitter.c...
A while back there was a story going around that licensors were replacing human translators with AI to prevent political bias. It seems clear that the real reason they're doing this is to save time and money. Having used Japanese AI translation casually, it's definitely not accurate enough for professional use. Even the unofficial manga scanlators who use it will apologize profusely and use it only as a last resort when a human translator isn't available.
As accusations of translator bias go, other than the Dragon Maid debacle, the big one at that time was the Zombie Land Saga, where they were accused of changing the script to Hoshikawa Lily transgender. What they failed to notice is that the character was always transgender - Hoshikawa Lily being a stage name, her birth name is revealed in one episode to be Masao, a male name.
There are some instances of dubious translations that fail to accurately convey the author's intent, but at the same time, part of what we're seeing is just pushback to increased LGBT representation and feminist themes in anime. Translators are sometimes being blamed for inserting modern or western values into works that already reflected those values.
Or rather, I am, but I'm still right about the subtitles.
I definitely wish we were back in the era of "keikaku means plan".
What's the point of writing a full article when the answer is literally in the eighth word?
> This level of attention to detail makes for a better viewing experience
Quality concerns aside, I've always disliked having text on the top and bottom of the screen simultaneously. My eyes are focused on the bottom of the screen, so I sometimes don't even realize that there's text at the top and have to pause/rewind to figure out what I missed.
I think putting both speakers' captions at the bottom with some kind of differentiator makes more sense.
Colourful, expressive, well timed subs really add something to the experience.
Strange to see an article describing the issue - degrading the subtitle quality, which affects all the content due to this licensing ~monopoly - while simultaneously rejecting its existence.
Less money to pay for quality.
People use either some flavor of W3C's Timed Text or WebVTT instead (and it was already a pain to get them to drag their feet into them and drop the old analog broadcast formats). Now, here's the thing. WebVTT isn't radically different in format and features to (A)SSA and it has plenty of styling options... but, once again, a lot of platforms and software are dragging their feet to support them.
So the industry has been sloooowly doing the right thing moving to the W3C standards (not a huge fan of Timed Text myself, but it exists for a reason), but only with the most basic and safe features. Which are also about as many features you get out of plain speech to text output, so it's even easier to make that decision.
I have seen no issues in regular subs, and they look like they always have looked.
egypturnash•4mo ago
And there's your answer. Bet they're replacing most of their artisinal subtitlers with AI.
radicaldreamer•4mo ago
sunaookami•4mo ago
For its own translations in Germany, CR uses freelancers which are VERY GOOD at their job, do not confuse them with the US Crunchyroll which consists mostly of the infamous Funimation staff.
Pikamander2•4mo ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1lqzdva/crunchyroll_...
They probably went with a "lowest bidder" approach and then didn't sufficiently check the quality of work being submitted.
monkaiju•4mo ago
an0malous•4mo ago
Narretz•4mo ago
Analemma_•4mo ago
Culonavirus•4mo ago
xenadu02•4mo ago
Back when they had software developers they were rapidly improving the app but someone decided they needed more executive bonuses and laid everyone off. Their software hasn't moved an inch since.
Funimation had the same idea. They bailed out of VRV (Crunchyroll's attempt at an anime "marketplace" all-in-one app) and released their own garbage app that is somehow much much worse.
It is the classic "we have exclusives so these drooling morons will take whatever we deign to give them because we're the only ones with show X/Y/Z" move.
redwall_hp•4mo ago
xenadu02•3mo ago
Funimation lowered the bar so much I thought it couldn't go lower.
Who knew HiDive would prove me wrong.