If type "Charles dickens" in search, there should be a way to get works by Dickens exclusively. Even if you select the Web link author name, you get "in the style of"
I tried it:
- on the website from the home page
- in the Kindle category
- on my Kindle directly
All I got was books by Dickens.
There was the usual "sponsored" items but they are explicitly displayed as it.
I don't know if it's a country issue, but I don't have the same experience as you.
Furthermore, I read regularly on HN comments about how bad Amazon became, selling fake products, taking forever to send packages... Again, maybe a country issue, but here in France my experience is the same as it was ten years ago. It's even a bit better thanks to the number of Lockers that are available near my flat or my office and the fact that more and more refurbished products are offered.
I did it for "Philip kerr" and I get Richard wake and mark oulton. John le carre and I get Andrew Brown.
These are "in the style of" clone authors.
I don't know what (who?) caused this, but I'm certain that I don't want to have the same experience...
Amazon has always been about cash flow over profits. So they don’t really need to make money if that’s not yet one of the goals.
E.g. if I search for "<film or television series> blu ray" (no quotes), I will usually get only listings for foreign imports of the title sold by third parties, even when Amazon carries the item. If I want to get the US release in my search results, I have to leave out the "blu ray" string, which makes the search results less useful if Amazon carries a lot of non-BD versions of the title and I am looking for it specifically in that format.
Some items will be hidden when searching from Amazon itself, but can be ordered by doing the same search on DuckDuckGo or Google and finding a direct link to the product page.
TLDR: it's difficult to do a fair comparison between users' experiences, because their search feature (like so many sites - I'm looking at you, Etsy!) is completely broken.
Tried it. I got 100% Charles Dickens, with a clearly marked "Recently bought and rated" sponsored section in the middle.
Now, I did see Amazon completely hallucinating authors' names, but that mostly happened with small no-name authors or with translated names.
That's the last thing I'm buying on Amazon.
Amazon pre-COVID was amazing. But 2-day shipping is now 5+ day shipping. It's chock full of cheap/fraudulent junk. It's been interesting to watch it go downhill so fast.
Amazon shouldn't sell returned products as "new," but as "open box."
The other way it happens is co-mingling. Some vendor sends an "open box" product to Amazon as new, or a fake product, and Amazon ships it out when sold by Amazon since it considers goods to be fungible.
I stopped buying anything which goes in my body from eBay, Amazon, and similar after receiving a premium food product with very clearly fake packaging.
Reading about it on HN makes me feel fortunate. I can't recall ever running into something like this back then.
I doubt it ever will. Trust takes a long time to earn, and a little bit of time to break. I had four or five incidents on Amazon, cancelled Prime, and I doubt it will ever make business sense for Amazon to get me back.
I do think there's a place for a competitor to Amazon right now which looks more like the old Amazon.
Starting one would be super-capital-intensive. It's not a lean startup. There's only a handful of organizations with the capital to do that, and I doubt any of them will, in fact, do it.
nah. jassy taking the reigns in 2021 is when the nosedive began.
If walmart plays their cards right, they can do it (I mean they did acquire Jet). Unfortunately they also seem to be OK with becoming a dropship frontend for aliexpress
Walmart just needs the volume to be able to compete with Amazon's logistics, so is getting volume where it can.
Not necessarily. What’s more likely is that people try something, change their mind, and return it now used.
Amazon actually allows this for some products, as long as it’s still within the return period.
The problem is, they shouldn’t be shipping them back out as new.
And I still haven't gotten a single fraudulent item despite a steady stream of Amazon boxes to my house (I requested an extra recycle bin I get so many.)
I haven't ended up with any fraudulent items, but I have had packages "delivered" and "signed for" using my name that never arrived, with the telltale being that my packages go to a business address, and someone else signs for them.
I also quit Prime couple of years ago. Hardly miss it.
If people give up on buying things from Amazon because there's just no way to find reliably usable products, Amazon will eventually lose out on that advertising revenue. So either we're mid way through that process, or there's something more complicated going on.
Amazon is a marketplace, and more and more different vendors came to that place selling cheaper, shady things. They seems to have an open door policy. It's somewhat understandable.
But that same strategy got adopted in many different places.
Decathlon on their website offer products from other vendors. It's really shady as they advertise hassle free returns everywhere but that only applies to products sold by them specifically, not to majority of products available in their shop.
Kaufland (if you're in US think Germany's Walmart) has the same thing going on.
I dramatically lowered my buying from Amazon about 8 years ago, when I noticed that listings had reviews on items that were completely different than what was being listed. Apparently, sellers sell a known good product that gets good reviews, and then swap it out for something else, so that the new product can piggy back off of the good karma. Amazon just didn't shut this down for years. Also, when Fulfillment services by Amazon mixed the the official provider's inventory with 3rd party distributors and reseller inventories. Sometimes, people would get knock-offs. I knew then, Amazon would coast for at least a decade before the decline would be apparent.
I thought I'd buy more Shopify stock as a result. Dunno if I ever did.
s/seller/shareholder/
I almost never buy from Amazon any more. For certain things it is difficult because Amazon has destroyed so much logistics and has such a stranglehold that a lot small/medium sized companies only sell through Amazon now. I ordered some kitchen gadget a few months ago from the company's own website, thinking I was avoiding Amazon, and it was delivered by an Amazon driver.
Reviews for Fagles's Iliad were combined with Pope's Iliad and Lattimore's Iliad and so on and so forth.
Navigation is also borked for books with many different versions - if you play around with the 'hardback', 'paperback', 'audiobook' buttons at the top of the page you'll find there's no consistency about what edition they lead you to.
Jeez, the least they can do is make it look like they are trying to curb abuse.
This is not a neutral listening of all available products. Although Amazon proposes has and knows all sorts of products. It will push the ones right in your face that it wants to promote.
So if you are into a purchase, do your research on other platforms first before you order on Amazon.
It's very very frustrating.
It does help me buy less stuff because the process is so annoying nowadays
Which is probably because they don't have a choice.
> I often just go without and the company loses the sale.
Which is not helping the company in any way. Not that it is your fault, but confirming the point of the article.
I told them, and they said they'd refund it, don't need to send it back, and they'd even add $15 credit.
The refund never arrived so a few weeks later I got in touch again and they said I need to send it back if I want a refund. They told me the previous CSR had lied to improve ratings. I asked who I can complain to and they said nobody and closed the chat. I reopened it, restarted the refund, it was accepted and then 2 hours later I got an email saying that unless I sent them ID my refund would be rejected and that I can "no longer contact them" about this refund. I ignored that email, sent the book back and got the refund.
Another time I bought a Samsung Fold and it cracked down the middle. I told Amazon and they said they'll refund it under warranty. I sent it back and got a warning that if I return anything else in "non original condition" I'd be banned. Even though it was a warranty return.
That level of service would have been totally unheard of for Amazon 5 years ago.
Amazon told me to go hang, said I couldn’t return used goods, it would have to be unused in the box, and that I should contact meta.
I contacted meta, who told me to go hang, as they don’t officially support Portugal, which is where Amazon Spain happily shipped it.
So it’s just sat in a box gathering dust since, and I now avoid using Amazon whenever possible. I had already ditched meta so frankly I should have known that I was going to step on a rake.
I don't buy it. Don't we have actual consumer protection laws here in europe? We can return anything we bought online in 14 days time, full refund, no questions asked.
But this is Amazon - they don’t need to follow consumer protection laws - I think their specific get out is that they’re Amazon Spain, and I’m having stuff shipped to Portugal, and Spanish consumer protection regs (which implement the EU regs) only protect consumers in Spain.
That was meta’s get-out, too.
No one needs to follow consumer protection laws if you don't sue to make them.
That’s part of their calculus, too.
(A company can have someone represent them, but if it's a lawyer, they must also have a rep. from the company there. and there can be no legalise, and the judge must explain anything to you if you ask)
There is no forced discoverability. EG, the other side cannot ask for all sorts of documents. You just include your evidence in the filing.
There is no ability for the company you sue, to compel costs if you lose.
For $150 you get a lot of joy out of hassling a company behaving like this. And amusingly, they still consult lawyers, and spend on a lot on lawyers. They can't be used in court, but they of course as a company consult legal experts.
I napkin mathed it, the one time I sued a company. I figured it cost them $25,000 to defend when I spent $150. If even a small percentage of people take them to task for breaking the law, they'll turn around quick.
Always use your enemies strengths as a weakness against them.
You should look at the process, but view if from the perspective of a hobby.
doesn't seem likely
How strange to try to claim the legal system has no reconciliation process for tourists or EU passer-bys. You're allowed to say you just couldn't be bothered to go through the trouble.
Amazon Spain are Spanish, and are not subject to the Portuguese livro de reclamações.
As to making a chargeback - I like having a bank account, and being able to pay for things online - any time you do one you take a risk your bank will decide to throw freezes and KYC at you until you give up.
And given you've already said things that are not true, I'm highly skeptical that there are not other means to handle this. I bet there are ways to access authenticao.gov without being a citizen. I bet there are ways that you don't have to go 200km. You can probably send the forms by snail-mail, by post or courier. I bet you're just leaving things out again, or haven't researched properly, as you've shown this to be the case with prior comments.
In terms of what Amazon is subject to, you can get a court judgement in one jurisdiction, and have it enforced in another. You're in the EU too, and I would be astonished to discover this isn't super-easy there. And legislation likely enhances cross-border cases like this. And if companies ship into another country, they can be blocked until recourse happens.
Point is, you're just (again) saying "Oh well!" without really knowing. You're just saying that's the case, because you're presuming that's the case. You don't know. you just say it is so.
Chargebacks are a part of online life. They are common. I've never, ever heard of a bank ever being hostile over them. The very premise is weird and absurd. It's just a part of banking, nothing unusual, nothing surprising, and a process we all have to go through from time to time.
You can only use authenticao.gov if you have a citizen card. This is a fact. The offline process involves physically going to the office in Porto, which is 200km from me. There are no forms you can just mail. I have been through this. Shit, go try the process yourself if you’re so sure.
You also evidently know nothing about EU law. The EU issues directives. Member states implement them. They are national pieces of legislation, not transnational.
As for chargebacks, the last time I did one, over a hire car that didn’t materialise, my bank put me through the wringer, and I no longer bank with them.
Anyway, thank you for your enlightened fucking comment.
https://www2.gov.pt/en/locais-de-atendimento-de-servicos-pub...
It's surprising to see you say this, since the PT gov website is honestly pretty clear on it.
And I highly doubt you're 200km from any court clerk. Especially since, you know, Portugal is only 220x550km...
And yes, believe it or not, Trás-os-Montes exists. I know you think Coimbra is the northern limit of the country, but people do live up here, and the nearest service desk for many things is Porto.
Anyway, you go vote chega, or whatever it is you do.
Not to mention the standard is 30 day returns, more than double the legally mandated 14 for distance selling.
I don't understand why you were even talking to support - if it was clearly defective within half an hour (much less than 30 days) you could have just created a return yourself without talking to anybody?
It’s basically the Amazon uk returns process from 20 years ago.
I think your mistake might be that they are sticking to the letter of the law. Don't ask for your 14-day cool-off period, because strictly I think the product needs to be sealed (though many sellers are more lenient):
https://business.gov.nl/regulation/cancellation-period-sale/
Instead ask for a repair under warranty, which they are required to do as a seller. They cannot point you to the manufacturer, the seller is responsible for handling warranty for the first two years:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/product-g...
IANAL, but I don't think it matters. Any webshop in the EU must sell to all EU customers and they should provide the same warranty, etc. to all EU customers as if you were buying it in the country they are selling from (Spain in this case). The EU is a single market.
https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-r...
Amazon is violating EU consumer protection law here, but they probably do it because most customers will feel helpless and not sue them. If you do not want to sue them, the best thing is probably to file a complaint with the Portuguese consumer authority. It's really important to do this, because only when enough people do such a thing, a pattern can be established and they can warn or sue Amazon.
As it stands, I will vote negatively for any CSR interaction that doesn't resolve my issue immediately while the conversation is still active, irrespective of whether they say they have addressed it.
The only thing keeping me there is the no-nonsense, helpful, customer support.
Any issues i have are always resolved, so it still seems to be working over here.
It's illegal under German law, EU law, and I'm sure it's also explicitly called out as illegal in at least 5 trade treaties Germany signed.
Needless to say, like everything in the EU, it's only enforced against local companies, in this case German ones.
Say ... what was Amazon's initial reason for success? Being cheaper by exploiting the interstate commerce clause to avoid paying sales tax when it's competitors weren't allowed to do so? You don't say. Amazon is famous for losing money on their delivery business (up until recently)? It's constantly repeated in 10+ years of their financial statements ...
So either Amazon has completely changed tactics and become truly brilliant and we still don't understand the plan ... or they're up to their old tricks, being slightly cheaper, now with less legality!
In the US these laws have been dismantled since the 70s (if I get the text correctly, I'm not expert on US labor law). And in Germany there is a chancellor who is pushing to increase the 40 work week (which still meant up to 50 hours) to a 48 hour work week - that's the change necessary to have Amazon (and others) treat their drivers and warehouse workers with more dignity. /s
Just think about Media markt customer service for example…
Amazon changed that by introducing US-style no-questions-asked 30 day returns etc… but nowadays they are slowly chipping away at that, 14 days is the the norm now, (which is the hard limit anyway, since being set into law a couple years ago)
But yes the customer friendliness is slowly being cut down, due to growing costs. Zalando (an online fashion retailer) has also reduced their return policy recently.
That was when I canceled my prime subscription which I had almost as long as it existed here.
Never buy from Amazon, especially not .de. Germany has a bunch of alternative online shops that are better.
Such as?
I never ran into such problems with Amazon, but I would like to know the alternatives.
When an item I ordered is delivered as the wrong item or when it never arrives, I can only select from a list of items in order to inform them about the bad delivery and none of the items lists "item never arrived" or "wrong item arrived".
And there is no other way to complain about the delivery/item--no help chat, no email I can contact.
(At least, in the UK. Like sibling comment to yours it's the amazing support and returns that makes me shop at Amazon (.de in their case) - I don't recognise the disaster described elsewhere in thread and I probably wouldn't shops there!)
To get to chat, there are maybe 20 clicks to do. It's a series of menus and the wrong answer at any point leads you back to the prior purchases page.
If you finally get to 'chat', it's a terrible AI which never helps. If you respond incorrectly, AI closes the chat or gives dead end answers.
Only after all of this, do you finally have the opportunity to chat to a person. Often this person has a poor command of the english language too.
I just call now. They've literally made it so calling is 1000x easier.
Amazon is just hilariously, horribly managed these days.
Unlike the author of the article, I don't believe it's possible to fix Amazon. He's talking about regulations as a remedy, but the U.S. is not likely to pass such regulations any time soon. The U.S. government is far more likely to threaten other nations for imposing such regulations or taxes on American companies operating in their jurisdictions. We saw this very thing happen when Canada was forced to delete its digital services tax.
If you don't think Amazon is delivering good value for your money, stop giving Amazon your money. Even though there is no direct competition for delivering Chinese junk to your doorstep overnight, stop giving Amazon your money. "Good, fast, cheap. Pick two." Amazon promised us all three, but failed to deliver just like all the rest.
When I contacted customer service, they told me I had to send them a copy of my ID to process the refund. I was really frustrated; I’ve had this account for over 20 years and never had any issues before. I spoke with several representatives, but they all gave me the same response, and a few were even rude and aggressive, something I’d never experienced with Amazon before.
Since I didn’t want to share my ID, I decided to go through my credit card provider (Visa) instead and filed a claim. Visa refunded my money, but shortly after, I got an email from Amazon asking why I’d raised a Section 75 claim (the UK’s credit card protection scheme) and informing me that my account would be closed for fraudulent activity.
I replied with proof that they had received my return and never issued a refund. That was the last I ever heard from them, and the last time I bought anything from Amazon.
"Aged" accounts are a thing you can buy on the black market, as well as hacked accounts of users with long chains of legitimate activity. It's not as strong of an anti-fraud signal as you might think.
They can use common sense for the refund. They are just choosing not to.
You didn't explain why you didn't want to share your ID with Amazon, but it's not an unreasonable request from them as a way to combat fraud.
It's not only Amazon that has this problem btw. Lots of online stores do. Return fraud is so prevalent that you should expect to this to become more common. A few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us.
Payment details aren't enough to reliably establish identity in many cases. If fighting this stuff were easy they'd have done it already, they aren't idiots.
And crucially - Amazon doesnt do this tracking on purpose so they can have plausible deniability while screwing merchants.
Btw, if Amazon is a fault, where they can't shift the loss onto a seller or third-party, the delays will go on for weeks, if not forever. You have to do a chargeback.
Amazon got so large they stopped paying attention to the details.
I wonder how much a 20-yr old Amazon account is worth on the grey market. Mine is about that old, and I have – legimately – returned thousands of dollars worth of goods (that were faulty or just didn't work the way I liked) and it is probably very difficult for Amazon to distinguish between my legitimate returns and a hypothetical alternative where I'm a fraudster that just purchased this old account and am laundering broken electronics through the returns system.
Source: I work in LP, but not for Amazon.
They should inspect their returns more carefully before refunding.
Amazon can't verify everything, but for it's own Fire devices it does check S/Ns. Also Apple has it's own system, they do not mess around. I suggest not buying Apple products from Amazon.
Why is there another time? I don't understand why someone would continue purchasing from a shop after the first experience.
So if you want a certain item, your options are, if you're lucky, find a physical retail store that sells the item, or order it from Amazon. If you're not very lucky, they don't sell in retail stores, only online. Only on Amazon.
My family has vastly reduced our purchases from Amazon over the past several months, but there are still some things that we basically don't have a choice in, especially given that we live in a rural area without ready access to many physical retail stores.
I once ordered a new pair of Jeans, expensive ones because I wanted them to last, from Amazon and got an obviously used and ripped pair sent to me.
I sent it back, noted that in my reason for sending it back only to receive an email from them with the same sentiment as you got. Luckily I kept all the receipts (figuratively) and took a lot of photos and screenshots.
Reaching out to support they apologized profusely to me but still it left a very bad taste in my mouth and I'm sure it'll happen again sometime in the future.
It's not like Amazon is an actual monopoly for clothing.
In the context of buying jeans (or really anything), if I go to a retail store, it's a multi-hour, multi-store event that usually leaves me empty-handed. My solution to that was to go directly to Levi's with the model and size of the last pair that fit, and buy a few pairs of them. I recently went back to buy to restock my supply of jeans, only to find that the style that fits has been discontinued—yet another form of enshitification.
Retention is the next program they’ll have to initiate, but no reason to finance this now as there are no competitors just yet.
Listen, when it was said that corporations are amoral and sociopathic, it was not a joke.
If anything it feels like the second CSR who actually told you the truth was acting more in defiance of the system than the first one.
The research is also completely useless nowadays. 90% of what you find is just people reselling stuff they bought on AliExpress and reviews are all fake.
I have a similar story, they "delivered" when I was out, hidden behind a wall in my garden
when I found the package two days later, the expensive books had been ruined by the rain
I explained to their CS, they issued the return authorisation
then after they received the return they threatened me for not returning in "original condition"
I was a customer since the early 2000s, a prime member since it started, with something like 2 returns total in that time, with tens of thousands of spending (to this exact address)
I deleted my account
This was over chat? You have the transcript? I find it hard to believe they would say this. Amazon CSR have a very strict script they have to go by. But they do lie, get everything in writing.
1. Prioritize customers (product feels great)
2. Prioritize B2B (sellers in this case — customer experience starts to suffer)
3. Prioritize shareholders (customer experience is terrible, now sellers' experience starts to suffer too, product eventually dies — though it takes a while)
I shop from Amazon a couple of times per month, with Prime subscription.
Delivery is always insanely fast (within 1-2 days), I always get exactly what I ordered, prices are always lowest compared to all competition, returns are convenient and human-free, and the additional Prime Videos is a nice bonus. I am honeslty worried of local Swedish business, becase they are getting the floor wiped. I haven't had a single issue some other people are mentioning.
It's selection bias, people will focus on the one bad experience and ignore the 99% of time where it works as expected.
eBay might have some similar problems as Amazon (fly-by-night retailers from China etc), but at least it doesn't pretend otherwise.
Or from Denmark, but delivery is probably expensive. (Within-EU delivery costs is something I'd like to see the EU improve, to allow smaller businesses to compete internationally with Amazon etc.)
https://www.computersalg.dk/i/2335209/startech-com-cat5e-rj4...
It’s rough, because you know that it will probably be cheaper and delivered faster from Amazon, at the moment it is probably the most consumer friendly place to buy. But you know once the honeymoom is over and all the Swedish retailers are gone, it’s just going to devolve to garbage. Support your non-Amazon retailers!
Even if they are still great in Sweden, don't buy from them, don't let them murder your local, healthy ecosystem. (If you think it's not healthy, wait until they have most of the market.)
But later they'll quietly update the scheduled delivery date on your order. If you complain that a package hasn't arrived on time, they'll tell you to wait until it does arrive. If you ask for redress for the late delivery, they'll say no.
Sometimes you actually need to receive a birthday gift before attending the party, you know.
They've also stopped packing their goods in a way that prevents them from being damaged in transit. A book you order from Amazon today will arrive stuffed into a manila envelope that it can barely fit inside. The corners will be damaged.
I do so l, so that returns can see it arrrived in poor shape, not from it being returned.
But... saving 3 cents per package on a box, may be cheaper that an extra return out of 1000?
I imagine the original seller doesn't know (when only shipped but not sold by amazon), so too bad for them, and Amazon even removed the return option "box ok but product damaged".
So I guess much of the cost is born by others.
In my experience, small single items will usually go in padded mailers, which are the most effective option they seem to offer.
As soon as the item or shipment is big enough for a box, all they've done for as long as I can remember is add enough packing material to fill any empty space, so that items in the box are less likely to bounce around inside the box, but offering no protection against situations like the box as a whole being dropped onto a hard surface.
I stopped ordering hard drives from them about twenty years ago because they refused to pack them safely enough for UPS or FedEx standards.
One of my biggest annoyances is the exact same (crappy) product listed 300 times with different brands/names.
But hey, at least we still have extravagantly fast delivery times!
Louis Rossmann have a video about fake electrical fuses sold on Amazon US with almost half a million views. Literally the product that can burn your house to the ground:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU
Did Amazon US at least pulled these off store? Nope.
Maybe. Or it could be simply relying on being a high-trust society. Screw up with consumers, and people will talk about it and shame you night and day.
If you don't have Prime though, it's a different place altogether. But you don't have much of a choice - Flipkart (the other alternative) is worse in every way.
Amazon in India has been close to perfect on customer service. I have had issues, but it’s still easier to contact customer service on chat or have them call me (both modes have become a little more difficult to access with the stupid chat bot responding and not helping). Anytime there’s a defective item that needs to be returned for refund or replaced, it’s been very quick.
Lately though, I’ve made it a habit of shooting unboxing videos and photos of the delivered package so that I have clear evidence on any wrongdoing by anyone in Amazon. For larger appliances and such, I’d still prefer a local brick and mortar store.
On the other hand, Flipkart, which is Amazon’s primary competitor, has worse prices on many items of interest to me, does not really offer fast shipping like Amazon does, has only a phone number to contact customer service (and that’s pretty useless), doesn’t have a simple way to get returns or replacements done, has a really stupid and useless “SuperCoins” rewards scheme, and more. It’s a wonder that Walmart is still an investor and owner in Flipkart and hasn’t sold it off and salvaged itself.
I do believe that Amazon’s service in India has deteriorated over the last couple of years or so. Don’t know if management doesn’t care as much or what’s happening within.
My wife ordered an iPhone and we received a salt mill and a flashlight. Called them, they said sorry send it back. But then they would not return the money cause we did not return the phone. At that point Amazon accused us for betrayal and forced us to take a lawyer to get parts of the money back.
That was our last day of using Amazon or prime video.
They definitely tried to send me a used book as if it was new. I'm sick and tired of Amazon lying to me.
Just in the past three months, I've noticed a lot of changes. Orders are being lost, orders are being cancelled by them for lack of product, orders are being split, with no indication of the split -- showing all products delivered when the split portion is still in transit.
In the past, the customer could see the same order information that their Customer Support staff could see, but now we can't see as much. Recently, I had an order split three ways (three of the same item) without any notice. The shipment arrived with only one item, so I contacted Customer Support. The support rep spun on it for a while, and then told me I would receive the remainder of the shipment the next day. By the end of the call, it changed to two days. It finally arrived four days later, but that shipment also only had one item (of the three ordered). I tried contacting customer service again, but instead of letting me reach a human, Amazon forced me into an AI chat. The chatbot told me that my only option was to accept a refund for the missing (third) item. I repeatedly told it that I would rather receive the item, but it insisted that was impossible. So it refunded part of my purchase price. Two days later, I received the third item (with no shipping status updates of any kind), followed the next day by a demanding email from Amazon that I pay them for the item I had received (which I did do).
Even more recently, I ordered an m.2 SSD. While placing the order, I opted for the "green" option to get a little money back by not rushing them. Everything was fine with the order until the next day, when I got an email saying the charge to my (Amazon) card was declined. I checked the card, which still had $8,100 of credit, and I had just received and paid the ($1,900) bill the day before. I called Amazon (and reached a person!) -- the guy in the foreign call center had an accent so think that I had trouble understanding him, but he insisted that the issue was MY fault three times before I got him to consider that maybe it wasn't. He offered to try charging the order again, and it went through. I checked the order status while still on the call, and the "green" option was no longer there, so I cancelled the order and tried re-placing it, but there was no longer any "green" option, so I didn't re-place the order.
I think all of this nonsense is a consequence of Amazon deploying AI into their systems across all business functions. The last one was probably an AI trying to maximize their margins by depriving me of the (1%) "green" credit. Hopefully my actions helped "train" the AI that ripping off your customers will reduce your sales revenue.
I know this was a long rant, but at least in my case, Amazon's deployment of AI is going to reduce the amount of money they earn from me.
At least in the short term. But manager bonuses and promotions and the stock price are all based on the short term, aren't they?
They dont care. The mismatch in power between trillion dollar companies breaks the traditional accountability relationship between seller and buyer.
Hopefully Enshittification is just the dying throes of a megacorp before they implode - otherwise we are all screwed if this becomes the new normal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU
Or any food, or anything that you wear too close to your body that can be health hazzard due unsafe or toxic materials.
The only thing I've noticed is the very big price difference between academic/technical books when bought on Amazon vs a local book store (40+%) in favour of Amazon. Bulk discounts play a part in that I assume.
Potentially also threats — Amazon demands the discount, with the threatened alternative being they won't stock any of the publisher's books.
When the bear is hunting after your your group of friends, you don't have to be the fastest runner, it is sufficient to not be the slowest one.
Often the same sellers or manufacturers will offer the same product with the same price but with cheaper shipping on eBay.
Unless you make your own choice and going deep into the purchasing options you will end up in one of the 3 scenarios
- Product sold and shipped by Amazon
- Product sold by third party but shipped by Amazon
- Product sold and shipped by third party
I have never had a problem with the first category but the other two are always problematic, especially the third. You are on Amazon.de > you can end up buying from the US, UK, or China (so outside of the EU). Not just you will get hit by customs but good luck enforcing the mandatory 14 day return law.
Their return policies are really lenient too. I bought a computer monitor, didn't like it so I sent it back, bought another and liked it even less, sent it back. The third one I liked, all the returns didn't cost me a thing.
Just a few weeks ago, just be accident, I got a refund on a loaf of bread that had been dented, while I was getting service on something else. Nothing is perfect, but their online chat support has resolved any problem I've had, even if it took some effort.
I don't want to sound like an ad although I probably do, but what am I doing right? Do I somehow, instinctually, avoid products that will be trouble? If things were as bad as the comments suggest, I don't think amazon would be still in business. If this is enshittification, more please.
But the real shocker to me is:
> That means shopping anywhere other than Amazon has become substantially more inconvenient.
and
> We’re all still stuck to the platform, but we get less and less value out of it.
I've simply started buying all of my electronics, and other expensive goods from the manufacturer (D2C) or a reputable retailer in the space. My groceries I can order through my supermarket or one of the grocery focused platforms. They all offer simple free or cheap shipping at a convenient time. I think, to some extent, Amazon has helped this push for better/cheaper shipping.
> Break up with Amazon and delete your apps, and you will lose all the media you’ve ever bought from the platform.
Yes... but if you simply stop paying them you will keep them all? I have never bought a movie through Prime but I have some audio books which all work fine despite me no longer paying Audible.
All in all it seems like this guy has come up with some hypothesis of their master plan but the reality is that switching costs are low and Amazon doesn't hold a monopoly in any tangible way.
> you can’t stop enshittification by “voting with your wallet” (those votes are always won by those with the thickest wallets, and that’s the billionaires who made money by enshittifying everything)
Er... Amazon can't run with only the patronage of billionaires? What is he imagining, Elon Musk just buys a billion dollars a day from his mate Jeff? Obviously if the platform gets worse, customers will start switching (en masse) to the 85-90% of global ecommerce that Amazon doesn't control.
https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/138/Laundry-Deterge...
https://clark.com/scams-rip-offs/fake-laundry-detergent-how-...
I also temporarily sign up for Prime when I visit US (usually for a week), but recently, unless I order on Sunday of my arrival and deliver to one of their lockers, "2-day shipping" or even extra paid same-day-shipping won't arrive by Friday to my hotel (last few experiences in Boston, MA).
Due to only "delivered by Amazon" products having delivery-duty-paid option, I avoid some of the risk of new Amazon, but I need to be extra careful when shopping while in the US.
Local shops are scams in my area: expensive, don’t take back items, limited selections, don’t have the right items and have to settle for less, time consuming, bad customer service, can have language requirements for some people at the time of disputes (but not when selling), the reviews of items are not available and a lot of them turn out to be bad, long waiting lines … Your complaints about online shopping remain with local shopping.
The benefits of online shopping for consumers are plenty and evident. The majority of products I bought online that I researched carefully have been solid.
None of these are scams, you're misusing the word. You mean a worse shopping experience, not defrauding the customer.
What they offer is the ability to put the product in your hands immediately, they hire your friends /family and pay taxes to your city and national government allowing services like police, fire and hospitals to be funded.
For many cheap prices, longer wait times and not supporting your local area makes more sense to them. But then they complain about the local services and not realize their decision to not support them had an affect.
- Pretty much every webstore of size will now list / sell everything, where 99% of the products are not in stock, and needs to be ordered - probably from the vendors in China, or whatever.
- Explosion in independent 3rd party sellers, within those stores. You now have to check that you're explicitly purchasing from the webstore you're visiting, and not some third party they allow to sell through them. Luckily some stores have become better at notifying the buyer that the item is being bought from someone else, and not the store.
- Acceptance of lookalike products.
Basically, it seems like all the stores are competing to be AliExpress and Temu now.
I got a fake product only once, a box with packing peanuts instead of a ZigBee relay. They refunded the cost right away.
Best I can guess someone's ordered two pairs, split one of the pairs across the two boxes, and sent both boxes back for two refunds and they've gone straight back on the shelf.
Now I can't get anything delivered to my house within 2 days or less because I'm punished as a rural customer, but they can sure as hell send me letters every 2 months complaining I haven't touched my Prime Video.
> Cory Doctorow is an activist, science fiction author and co-editor of the blog Boing Boing.
If you have not dealt with digital marketing, this article is structured as an advertorial, present a pain (Amazon practices), then offer a solution/product, with a subtle call to action (CTA) at the end - "subscribe to the left ideology to get rid of the problem"
I am tired of political propaganda masqueraded as information. Ironically, the author doesn't know that he is a product of "enshittification"; but instead of physical products, left ideologies, heavily advertised through social media.
However power is so centralized in the hands of these oligarchs this wont happen on its own. They are currently turning our country into a white Christian nationalist ethno-state to try to preserve their tenuous hold on power.
In the medium term, their adversarial approach to society’s welfare is likely to backfire as we continue to find ourselves increasingly squeezed by the enshittified world these oligarchs have created - and turn to the only real effective tool that we have left: mass strikes. The longer we wait the harder it’s going to be.
> in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representatives who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions
[1] https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Jerry_Pournelle's_Iron_Law_of...
Biggest issue is the shipping. The primary reason I had prime was the shipping - and I swear, only a small fraction of packages ship anywhere near the published date.
I found after I canceled Prime, my Amazon spending significantly went down. Sometimes I will add something to the cart, look at the shipping fee, and decide to abandon the cart. Canceling Prime made me realize I was ordering a lot of junk I didn’t need.
At that point I decided the experience of going for a walk when I need something in a pinch was nicer than ordering online, and if I need something obscure, I'll pay for shipping once or twice a year.
Their packaging and delivery quality is one of the worst. But they are still responsive to customer requests, although that is going down the sewer as well. I get often responses that look LLM/chatbot generated and often not answering my question. Or they try something like, sure I'll get you the refund as soon as you place the order again. Then I insist they refund now and so far I always got my money back.
So, basically their advantage for me is their sortiment (but you need to navigate through a lot of fake and garbage products), free returns and quick refund (often even without a return). But this is not a very strong one and I very rarely open their website - the pile of low quality listing is so off-putting that I generally avoid.
It's now a black market where shady companies are trading on the good name of Amazon and selling the same products at lower products but usually from the grey market.
The only one where I have seen it improve a store (in the UK) is Next where they allow other trusted fashion brands to sell through the store.
A book sold and fulfilled by Amazon.
Amazon's online system kept pushing back the delivery date one week at a time, so it couldn't be canceled either online or by the phone drones.
After the second delay I just went to a local bookstore and bought it right there.
When the book from Amazon finally arrived, I took it straight to Whole Foods for a refund.
So honestly, I think we haven’t even gotten close to the rock bottom point where people will actually start cancelling things like Prime. Especially while the competition still won’t sell their goods to “dirty” areas. And then people wonder why Amazon and Walmart are so big.
You have to watch an 2-minute ad in order to unlock the privilege to view the same kind of 2-minute ad. I'm not sure weather to call that absurdism or dystopian, but it's nuts. More importantly, it is friction. It actively stops the customer from doing what amazon (or its advertisers) actually want them to do.
This same thoughtlessness to the impacts of decision making has been inexplicably implemented into Amazon's companies at every level. This is a big problem for Amazon customers, especially. Amazon's insistence on advertising blocks customers from spending money. Every unrelated "sponsored" product in the search results gives that much more opportunity for a buyer to look on a different site. Serving an ad has inexplicably become a higher priority than closing a sale. Look at Amazon's "are you really sure you actually want to buy that" page they are now using to try and upsell customers before letting them check out. To say the least, it is a fundamental change in philosophy from the company who invented single-click checkout and "Buy it Now".
(Another nice thing is that I can buy (some) imported goods (say a Peak Design pouch) directly on my local Amazon site and feel confident they will arrive. Not sure exactly what makes items appear listed on the local store.)
nullhole•4mo ago
'Degradation' seems to carry most (all?) of the same meaning and doesn't have those downsides.
worthless-trash•4mo ago
nprateem•4mo ago
riffraff•4mo ago
I don't always agree with what he says, but I'm pretty sure he has a pretty good grasp of English and plenty of valuable things fo say.
tietjens•4mo ago
Animats•4mo ago
forgotusername6•4mo ago
mnsc•4mo ago
ta1243•4mo ago
There are some people who swear every other word when talking to friends and family. Fine, they'll talk regardless. But there's a significant number who don't, and they will thus avoid using "enshittification" in conversations, reducing the cultural awareness of it.
ahartmetz•4mo ago
Degradation can happen due to inaction - that is not what enshittification is. Enshittification is the endgame of a platform where the owner stops courting buyers and sellers (in that order) and allocates all the profit to itself.
riffraff•4mo ago
But "enshittification" has its own specific meaning which goes beyond existing terms (i.e. it's specific to degradation of platforms making money from two sides of the transaction).
I wish we had a better term for it, but it can't be replaced by just "degradation".
tjwebbnorfolk•4mo ago
When you say enshittification, people know exactly what you mean.
function_seven•4mo ago
Enshittification is a deliberate kind of degradation to juice a metric.
That metric is never “customer satisfaction”
thebruce87m•4mo ago
conductr•4mo ago
I do have a hard time believing this author coined the term in 2022. I’ve had this phase as part of my vocabulary for much long than that to describe the same exact phenomenon, I know I didn’t invent it but it’s been around in the online software community at least. Maybe he claims ownership because he was the first to write about it, or maybe my memory is just failing me and he deserves the credit. Idk but that tidbit bothers me way more than the words. I don’t let vulgarity get in the way of having polite conversations, they’re not mutually exclusive in my opinion.
shinryuu•4mo ago
_joel•4mo ago
nine_k•4mo ago
The key difference is that degradation can be a natural process, or a result of neglect, while faecefaction is a deliberate act of turning a product into crap, while knowing that the customer will continue buying for some time, due to inertia and / or lack of alternatives.
jhljlkjlnlkn•4mo ago
dartharva•4mo ago
tstrimple•4mo ago
The impacts to consumers are ugly, so it's only fair to use ugly language to describe it.
krelian•4mo ago
The vulgarity also carries with it higher odds of the term detaching from the intellectual sphere and into the common man, increasing awareness and hope of consumer pushback.
rjknight•4mo ago
[1]: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Phases-of-the-S-Curve-Pe...
pkal•4mo ago
> What makes the Market for Lemons concept so appealing (and what differentiates it in my mind from ens**tification) is that everyone can be acting reasonably, pursuing their own interests, and things still get worse for everyone. No one has to be evil or stupid: the platform does what’s profitable, sellers do what works, buyers try to make smart decisions, and yet the whole system degrades into something nobody actually wants.
(I don't know if Doctorow's concept really relies on malice.)
SalmonSnarker•4mo ago