Meme stock...
Electric cars were seen as a leftist thing a few years back. If (again, as a non American) you asked me what the average car of a right wing American was, I’d say a ginormous pick up truck with a V8 ICE engine or something like that. Did that kind of person really start buying Teslas due to Musk’s close ties with the current US administration? I can’t see that. I also can’t see leftist American people buying Teslas due to environmental reasons alone despite of Musk either. So who’s buying those cars?
Purely anecdotical but I know at least one person who was going to buy a Tesla and he didn’t do it purely because of Musk. Also, the only time I got inside a Tesla was in a Cabify that took me to the airport (model 3), smooth ride but the interior was that of a cheap car from 10 years ago.
Just regular average people. EVs are just better than ICE cars, as long as you have charging infrastructure. And Tesla has it.
Tesla made sure the Left hated them due to Nazi garbage from the CEO, the Right is full of coal-rolling clowns, so I have no idea who's buying them.
I also don't count libertarians, because they are not serious people.
I guess they publish this in advance in an effort to persuade other shareholders to vote similarly?
Yes. Plainly apparent IMO.
The conclusion-paragraph ends with
“As such, we urge Tesla shareholder to vote against all directors as well as Proposals 3 and 4 at the November 6th annual meeting.”I've stopped recommending Tesla to people, despite driving one. The company is way too unpredictable and unstable.
Genuinely curious where this is? It's not anywhere on the US Interstate Highway network for sure (OK, fine maybe there are a handful of 120 mile stretches here and there). There are holes in the middle of the interior west, but you have to work really hard to get 100 miles from a supercharger.
I mean, there are always legitimate criticisms to be made, but the breadth of the charging network is... quite frankly the best in the world?
There are areas of the west that have enough coverage for driving through but not for trips. You would be pushing it visiting the Wallowa Mountains in Oregon cause La Grande or Joseph only have slow chargers. Another is the "Loneliest Road in America", US-50 in Nevada, has 285 mile gap.
Neither of which has anything but a vanishing fraction of areas more than 100 miles from a supercharger.
Your other examples are real, though pretty spun. It's true! There are a handful of remote[1] areas[2] where EVs are still going to be... well, "less convenient" than a gas car. You can absolutely visit the Wallowas or transit Nevada in your Tesla, and people do.
Claiming "The USA is really big and has a lot of uninhabited desert" as evidence for corporate mismanagement of Tesla is... really weird, honestly.
[1] Just checked: the Pendleton charger to Wallowa Lake is 110 miles. So... not really "pushing it" except in a SR model 3.
[2] They didn't name it "loneliest" because of EVs!
I bet their rear passenger seats don't even have toothpick disinfection modules.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/22/elon-musk-pigeon-ceo-former-t...
I think they're in some sort of stock price suicide pact at this point.
- music apps and gapless playback: basically all major car manufacturer software is trash, I'd challenge you to find a car software that's better than Tesla
- stretches without superchargers: to be clear, not stretches without places you can charge the car, right? Just places where Tesla's fast charging stations exist. Tesla has an order of magnitude more of these type of stations than any other similar network
- Service centers: I have no knowledge here. From how silly the other arguments are, I kind of assume that this isn't fully true, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's true. Not awesome, definitely an area they need to get better in. But lets not forget, major manufacturer service centers are not exactly know for being quick/good/cheap
- Color options: I guess it would be cool to have truly custom colors, but basically every mainstream car ever has had a limited set of colors to choose from, and individual dealerships almost never have every color of that limited set available
And the answer is to have them become like a normal car company? That's not an industry thats exactly excelling at the very points you're bringing up. You're obviously free to have your take, but we are at peak "Elon is the wurst". Hard to take this stuff seriouslyEasy: _any_ car with Android Auto or CarPlay. Including a 10-year-old Toyota.
Tesla has been underperforming for a long time. If we look back to 2021, at that time Tesla had the best battery tech in the world (maybe not on the cell level, but definitely when looking at the system as a whole), the best-performing drivetrain, and generally OK cars.
Fast-forward 5 years, and Tesla's bread-and-butter Model 3 and Model Y are still using essentially the same battery tech. The range has not increased, and the cars themselves are barely any different with only some cosmetic updates. The infotaiment system is rapidly aging, and the cars lack advanced features like vehicle-to-grid.
The FSD has not materialized, and Tesla is likely on hook for billions in upgrades/refunds to pre-2019 car owners for the promised upgrades.
Other Tesla products are less than stellar. Tesla Semi has essentially disappeared, Cybertruck is barely selling (just around 4000 units in Q2!), Model 2 was canceled, and solar is essentially dead.
The battery storage is the only area that is growing robustly with a good profit margin. But Tesla doesn't have any moat there, and competitors (like BYD) are quickly catching up.
They state this as if it’s a problem, but it’s a fantastic thing for the company and the stock.
In the counterfactual world where the board did not do this and Musk left, Tesla would be way worse off. There’s also the theory that a new board could treat Musk badly or cut him loose and the company would do better, but I don’t buy that for a second. Put plainly, delusion runs rampant among Musk haters and that must be the reason this letter even exists. Or, some of them may be shorting and trying to avoid the day of reckoning.
And sure, his outspoken personality turns off a lot of people, but that is in the noise compared to the positive execution impacts he has.
Elon Musk's $1T pay plan faces pushback from investors, state officials
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/elon-m...
Tesla shareholders are the absolute worst bag holders. So vigorously defending a company that could not care less if they lived or died literally, as long as they keep buying unsafe garbage with less range than touted, months-long delays for some repairs, hiding crash data because it made Tesla look bad, beta testing driver-less mode in a way that endangers everyone else, switching to driver mode a split-second before a crash to insulate them from lawsuits, did I mention the fucking Nazi running it?
Oh and how's FSD going? lol
The only reason you would invest in a company like Tesla at this price is because they have a CEO capable of 10x that is aggressively moving into other markets and not because you think they should become a docile car company and fix a few small things here and there.
I’m an investor because I want to see them go into semi’s and automation etc.
timzaman•4mo ago
It also fails to completely mention Tesla stock's currently at an all time high.
preisschild•4mo ago
So Tesla is not a car manufacturer, but a cult of personality?
neogodless•4mo ago
JumpinJack_Cash•4mo ago
xmprt•4mo ago
ralph84•4mo ago
Veserv•4mo ago
He currently directly shares 12% of the growth of Tesla, far more than most executive teams which are viewed to be adequately aligned with far less ownership. Claiming there is no incentive to perform is nonsensical and incoherent.
orionsbelt•4mo ago
Veserv•4mo ago
You are getting confused by the fact that this class of profit sharing agreement can be easily sold for its expected net present value of all future cash flows and that they frequently retain earnings in tax advantaged forms instead of directly distributing their generated income in highly taxed forms.
orionsbelt•4mo ago
2. If you owned $10M worth of shares of TSLA from your personal investments, and applied to work at TSLA, would it be reasonable to deny you any compensation since you are already incentivized and share in the success?
This is not to comment on what the right pay package is; perhaps the proposed one is far far too rich, but that's a separate question to whether his existing assets are compensation or not.
Veserv•4mo ago
2. Yes, it is fairly common to “compensate” executives primarily in the form of their own stock appreciation [1]. Mark Zuckerberg receives 1$ in salary, options, stock awards, with only a tiny 20 M$ as reimbursements to avoid running afoul of tax law [2]. Larry Ellison [3] got only 8 M$. Michael Dell only got 3 M$ [4]. Andrew Jassy only 1 M$ [5]. Should I keep going?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-dollar_salary
[2] https://www.salary.com/research/executive-compensation/mark-...
[3] https://www.salary.com/research/executive-compensation/lawre...
[4] https://www.salary.com/research/executive-compensation/micha...
[5] https://www.salary.com/research/executive-compensation/andre...
orionsbelt•4mo ago
- Jassy: "When Jassy became CEO in 2021, he received a special stock award with a total value of $212 million. This award vests over 10 years..." - Ellison: "Founder, chairman and CTO Larry Ellison was awarded $138.6 million in the year ended 31 May 2022...However the bulk of the headline-grabbing figures, some $129.3 million of the total awards for both the CTO and CEO, will not be realized for a further three years. The performance-based stock options (PSOs) were granted in May 2018 and were supposed to vest in May 2022 "at the earliest" but were expected to take five years."
Zuckerberg may have agreed to forego additional equity comp, but he is a rare exception. Most executives receive new equity grants, subject to vesting, as compensation, even if they already own a lot of stock, as the stock they already own is not compensation for work.
Veserv•4mo ago
Can you explain how this is not, as I said: "primarily in the form of their own stock appreciation"? Also crickets on how your interpretation means that sole proprietorships and fully owned businesses are not being compensated for their work. The only reason it looks like such compensation is uncommon is because executive teams in long-standing companies that have long since lost their founders, common of publicly traded companies, infrequently have enough prior stake to justify such forms of compensation which is absolutely not the case for Elon Musk who currently owns 1/8 of Tesla's growth and profits.
f33d5173•4mo ago
Veserv•4mo ago
I am pointing out that if he raised the value of Tesla to 8 trillion dollars he would earn ~800 billion dollars even without any further grants. Earning more money than anybody else has on the planet is about the absolute furthest thing from being “uncompensated” you could be. Giving him a additional 12% of the company on top of that would mean he is earning 1.8 trillion dollars from his actions instead of just 800 billion dollars.
scrollop•4mo ago
He's a liability.