edit: anyone downvoting me really needs to use one of their 5 llm subs and ask what america is ahead on atm
Europe is going bed, have your fun with the karma
music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery”
Pretty much every one of these is a boring example. Abortion access is a debatable topic, most people who want public transit want it so they can get OTHER people off the road, lots of major cities have both public transit and walkability, many states and cities have significantly higher minimum wages, etc.
None of these are things most Americans are absolutely clamoring for - you just want to live in Europe without moving there.
Well, maybe the concept of free healthcare.
> Abortion access is a debatable topic
It's a simple debate though, one we can speedrun:
Objections to abortion access are rooted in religious concerns.
The first amendment guarantees separation of church and state.
Birth control of all sorts are the best method of reducing generational poverty.
It is also medically necessary in some cases to save the life of the mother, especially in the case of a non-viable fetus.
QED: If you don't like abortion, don't get one. It has multiple societal benefits.
This is simply false. You don't have to be religious to be against killing babies. Many non-religious people find it barbaric.
Why? Because treating a fertilized egg or a fetus as the same thing as a baby is rooted in religion. 13% is few not many.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...
> This is simply true.
FTFY
Opinion polls are very easy to game by phrasing questions differently. Ask people at what number of weeks is it ok to crush a growing baby (fetus) into pieces and vacuum it out, and you will get a wildly different percentage.
The easy way is the one already taken: by putting more restrictions the closer you get to the time of birth, and not at all addressing the question of when it counts as a baby. The easy way is not making that question the focus, because it inevitably leads to a discussion of "when does the soul inhabit the body" - a religious argument.
Thank you for proving my point.
Spare me the smug bullshit.
Desire for every human to be viewed as equal is rooted in religious concerns (see: divine rites of succession).
The first amendment guarantees separation of church and state.
Therefore, we should not allow people to view each other as equals.
> most people who want public transit want it so they can get OTHER people off the road
> ...studies have shown this...When did YCom commenters lose all rational thought
Again, brain rot. I’m outta here - people line you are ruining this site.
Forget free healthcare, it's about affordable healthcare. For the outcomes we get, the US has extremely expensive healthcare. Many, many other countries have better outcomes for way less money.
Get sick, can't keep up at work so you get fired, can't afford treatment because healthcare insurance is tied to employment.
You will never get well, you get evicted. Then you can decay on the streets if not jail.
Compared to Europe.
Get sick. Have real labor protections so you won't get fired, and generous benefits to keep you afloat. Get free healthcare, get well.
Sip fine wine while reading horror stories about the US healthcare system.
America is basically a giant casino. A small percentage of gamblers win, but even they are a bad roll of the dice away from destitution.
All while still having high taxes.
Crime is also drastically higher in the US. I've been to Europe and Asia. Serious crime is a fraction of what it is here.
Plus you don't need a car in most big cities.
But I guess America has more billionaires ( for now anyway).
Also, who gives a shit if you need a car or not? What is this lol
Even if I lived in Japan, I’d still have a car. You DO realize people outside of the internet occasionally enjoy cars, yeah?
And America will probably have more billionaires for ages. Hardly anyone gets that rich in Europe, and in China, all billionaires exist at the pleasure of the government and are disappeared constantly. Outside of Singapore (where you go to jail for spitting out gum), there are hardly any.
But yeah, the “for now” was definitely a cool mic drop…
The vast majority of us are a bad year away from sleeping on the streets. Just decoupling healthcare from employment would be amazing.
It happens all the time. Any serious illness will stop you from working. You then have no way to pay for treatment, and then your stuck.
Not to mention Europe is much safer by several orders of magnitude. Both the UK and France are very diverse and safe.
Cars are expensive. Try affording healthcare insurance, a car, car insurance and out of pocket medical expenses on an average income. People just skip things, drive around without insurance and ignore easily treatable illnesses.
Eventually it all falls apart.
It's a horrible system for almost everyone, but billionaires.
Like I said, America is a casino. It's fun when your winning, but very few come out ahead.
Which nation are you referring to? Broke Greece? Unemployed Spain? Walled-off Britain? No-government France? Dictator-run Turkey? Dictator-run Russia? Dictator-run Belarus? Economically-stagnated Germany? Nervous-of-invasion nordic states? Like, where is this utopia?
Ironic you bring this up as government workers are expected to work without pay during the shutdown.
France has a fraction of the crime of the US. They have plenty of immigrants.
Healthcare outcomes are significantly better.
Greece, while having less billionaires, has a significantly longer life expectancy than the US.
I guess if you're a billionaire America offers lower taxes. For everyone else it's a raw deal. The main issue is if you're poor life is hell, and it's very easy to fall off.
No country is perfect, but our healthcare system alone puts us below most developed countries.
As a bonus even if you leave the US you're still expected to pay taxes. Aside from Eritrea, no one other country does this.
Meanwhile, as far as I understand, laws only mandate unpaid leave for a limited time, and only for very serious conditions in the US.
A friend had a rough pregnancy, got fired. You can try and sue but it's expensive/stressful and you'll probably lose.
Mom and the kid are both fine years later.
Had a co worker who only took a single day off for his daughters birth as the company didn't offer any PAID family leave.
europe: live in government row-houses, watch national economy implode, drink warm beer
america: have some of the most affordable housing in the world (compared with income), watch national economy grow, sip three-buck-chuck
No hyperbole!!! therefore it's just a normal observation and not fetishization!
These things are quite apparent as a visitor: the "greatest city on earth", NYC, has a comically dirty and outdated metro system, and walking from a hotel to the nearest supermarket is basically impossible in most large cities - which are already the most walkable places.
[1] https://tcf.org/content/commentary/worsening-u-s-maternal-he...
[2] https://hellopebl.com/resources/blog/minimum-wage-by-country...
[3] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/19/why-us-vacation-policies-are...
[4] https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/03/why-walkable-urban-a...
> If you don't bring extra fuel cans, you are gambling big time.
Fuel cans have not been standard traveling equipment for nearly a century, back when gas stations were even rarer than charging stations are now.
It a route has >500 miles between gas stations it's not seeing much traffic.
It should not be odd to see EVs when they meet the needs of >95% of the Alaskan population, and when most households have multiple vehicles anyway.
Not to mention, there are plenty of routes in the US where an EV really isn't a good option... hell, going from Reno to Portland, I run low on fuel in a gas powered car during one particular stretch. I can make that drive within a day pretty comfortably... with an EV, that's a multi-day trip with additional expenses and stops on a much longer, less scenic route.
They brought a trailer with diesel generators with them.
The media coverage tends to focus on BYD vs Tesla, presumably because they're interesting new companies vs boring old Volkswagen, but neither are the market leader.
Simple, the US Fossil Fuel Industry + Political Contributions, or as all other countries call these contributions, bribes.
Also, I heard today the last remaining law that restricts these bribes is up before the US Supreme Court. We all know how they will rule, soon anything goes. Soon in the US, getting elected to a Federal Office will be much better than winning a lottery. Free Dinner, Free Vacations, Free Housing and a padded bank account can be fully legally had by any US Congress Person.
Edit: forgot, getting elected as President pretty can much makes you a billionaire.
The future is now: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/08/18/the-number
We were left behind because we shelter our own car companies in a gentle cradle where they don’t have to compete. Both parties did this while saying they wanted to “level the playing field” but chose rates that were protectionist and made competitive products prohibitive not rates that actually created a level field.
We were left behind because we tried to protect our companies from facing the future. People in this country expect that one can stand on the shore of a beach and vote on whether the tide should go in or out, and that’s just not how the world works.
I get that there are some real (or perceived) issues that are trying to be solved with these tariffs, but that doesn't magically make the realities of what tariffs do to a market go away. "Just do something" is a good way to get a "solution" that makes you worse off.
Tariffs are the worse sort of tax, massive amounts of deadweight loss, and a burden specifically on the pooorest. Perhaps that second part is why they are so popular.
How does that fact correlate to China's EV segment booming?
Most American OEMs are now all but entirely in the SUV/pickup truck markets precisely because the Asian makes already kick the shit out of them in every other category. Several prominent brands have nothing on sale but SUVs right now! And they're STILL going broke.
When I was in China, I saw Teslas everywhere and iPhones too. It seems there are products that can still compete in China against strong domestic brands. The country hasn't really been hyper protected for a few years now. I mean, majority of the products from around the world are basically produced there so they are not even looking at tarrifs, besides that many industries no longer require joint ventures, much of Africa has tariff free access etc.
For B2B maybe (i don't know about "hyper", and services and software are outside of this protection for sure). For consumers/customers, China is freer than the US.
So...China. They have zero standards for anything. The cars probably do poorly in crashes. The industries making the batteries pollute the shit out of everything. The batteries probably don't last as long as indicated, probably half as many cells as was advertised. The tires are thinner, the glass is thinner, the paint is barely applied. Is this really what we want?
There has to be some middle way.
RE China: They also make the cheapest and best qualities Telsa which are shipped around the world. They can make the best and worst quality depending on your price point.
I've driven a MG ZS EV for a month a year or two ago and it was an equal in terms of "feel" to my current to VW id3, but way better equipped. The tyres are just normal bridgestones or michellins etc.
Can't comment on the paint or if they're lying about the battery capacity, but they genuinely seem like decent cars, at least the ones in the UK. I am sure there are cheaper-made ones for the domestic china market, but the export stuff seems good.
That might have been true a decade+ ago, but in recent years, nearly every car coming from China makes it to the top of the Euro NCAP rankings [1]. The current top 10 standing for 2025 is:
1. Model 3 (DE)
2. Firefly / Nio
3. Smart #5
4. Lynk & Co 02
5. Polestar 3
6. Zeekr 7x
7. Togg T10x (TR)
8. IM IM6
9. Audi A6 (DE)
10. Voyah Courage
[1] https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/latest-safety-ra...
Taking a mature industry and adding protectionism because of underperformance is a disaster on all fronts.
We were in the middle of a huge industrial investment buildout, absolutely untold of in modern history, for solar and batteries. But with the goal of undoing anything the prior administration has done, we are abandoning the good that a little protectionism could have for a growing battery and solar industry in the US.
We are toast without big changes. The world is leapfrogging us, and with every dozen GW of solar and batteries that China exports, it is permanently lowering demand for US natural gas and oil, which will eventually torpedo the industry, or leave the US with far higher energy prices than the rest of the world, both of which are disastrous for industry.
But our problems started before tariffs. If you look at the graph in the article, things started diverging around 2018. You can see all other countries taking off, leaving the US in the dust.
And the (small) US increase dropped even more around 2023.
But we were already behind.
EV infrastructure is terrible. I've been hoping to trade our second vehicle (that is ICE) in for an EV, so that both our vehicles are EV.
But until the infrastructure improves, we have no choice but to hold onto at least one ICE vehicle for anything longer than a daily commute.
And US makers can't sell EVs when most Americans are still dealing with range anxiety due to lack of infrastructure.
Not only are they all different, they sometimes just fail. And this is sometimes an app issue, but it's also often a charger issue. We had to literally drive an hour away, with only about 15% remaining, to get to a working charger one time, because we couldn't get either of the two chargers working at the place we often stop by.
Not only was that a big inconvenience, it was stressful not knowing whether we had enough charge to make it to our backup. If we didn't have a backup close enough, I'm not sure what we would've done.
It needs to be as easy as a gas station. Pull up, plug in, tap credit card, done.
The EU now requires that for all new chargers installed. Like, this is a problem easily solved with regulation.
I’d not mind something akin to a modernized take on the Crown Vic, or something that has a decidedly American shape and non-luxury price tag to it.
because we still can (for now?) and it's better to introspect on how to improve oneself instead of putting everyone else down (unlike dear leader's example setting)
So what is it now? Best country or totally behind?
With that, good luck moving to China.
There is a significance portion of the US populace that is vehemently opposed to the very concept of electric cars, claiming to be "Dark MAGA" isn't going to fix that.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
> Some drivers intentionally trigger coal rolling in the presence of hybrid vehicles (a practice nicknamed "Prius repellent") to cause their drivers to lose sight of the road and inhale harmful air pollution. Coal rolling may also be directed at foreign vehicles, bicyclists, protesters, and pedestrians
I get to charge at home, it is quiet, easy to drive, fun to drive, great in the snow, no fluids to deal with except wiper, doesn't smell of gas/oil, doesn't need to start up, has almost no maintenance costs, roomier, and cheaper to operate.
Range anxiety is annoying, doubly so because we can easily fix the problem. "Refueling" speed is not the best, but isn't that big of deal for longer trips.
The US is #2 in the world in EVs behind China. Tesla leads the US in EVs, and is #2 in the world.
A sample of more reasonable titles:
1. US is #2 in EV manufacturing and sales, can they catch up to China?
2. How did BYD catch up so quickly to Tesla?
3. Why can't Europe create its own Tesla?
I'm less than convinced the solution is for the US to play the same games. I'm rather against it altogether.
... I mean, Europe _has_ its own Tesla, in VW AG, Stellantis, BMW, Mercedes, etc; their combined global BEV sales are similar to or slightly greater than Tesla's global sales. Why are you expecting one pseudo-monopoly manufacturer? While that _is_ kinda the case in the US, that's more a function of the US car market being pretty broken than anything else.
(It's not even the case in China; while BYD is big, and gets a lot of press, China does have other significant manufacturers.)
In the US? Not a chance.
But the US is simply a big place, and there is a lot of value assigned to being able to drive across it. I've done road trips where I'd drive for 8-12 hours a day for a few weeks as part of vacation routines. It's a really nice way to break away from daily stresses. I couldn't have done that with an EV... I'd have to plan for several additional stops and cut my daily travel distances to quite a bit shorter for the "stretch" days. I'd also have had to be far more careful in terms of going off-route to see a national park, or catch a touristy spot unplanned.
And while there are EV models with longer ranges, you still have to face the relatively limited infrastructure in place. It's gotten and continues to get better though. That said, it's still a massive country and will vary a lot by travel patterns.
Even with the US being big, most people aren't doing those kind of trips. They need a car for city use. Those people should be driving the % of total sales up but they aren't.
It is true that if I was in Europe and wanted to go somewhere 400 miles away I'd take a train. But I don't think that road trips explains everything.
_aavaa_•4mo ago
burnt-resistor•4mo ago