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Become unbannable from your email

https://karboosx.net/post/PJOveGVa/become-unbannable-from-your-emailgmail
107•bfoks•2h ago

Comments

Tepix•1h ago
Forwarding mail is problematic. If you forward spam, your spam score can increase and suddenly you‘re on a blacklist.

Also when you pick an email provider, pick one with a good privacy policy.

jsbisviewtiful•1h ago
Yeah the idea is good but spam scores would definitely crater your deliverability - and quickly. It's hard enough keeping spam scores within a reasonable threshold while sending subscriber approved marketing emails.
IlikeKitties•1h ago
TL;DR: Step 1: Get Your Own Domain Step 2: Make Backups

This is not sufficient. Even your domain can be seized. There is no way for any service dependent on the DNS System to be irrevocably owned.

iamnothere•1h ago
I don’t think TFA is talking about hosting email for well-known piracy sites or terrorists. My guess is they are more concerned about arbitrary and capricious account bans for supposed TOS violations, which is more relevant to ordinary people. Your domain won’t be seized by someone because Google doesn’t like your YouTube upload or whatever.
toast0•59m ago
> There is no way for any service dependent on the DNS System to be irrevocably owned.

All you need to do is get an ISO-3166-1 alpha-2 code issued for you, and then never change your name, and you're golden.

IlikeKitties•55m ago
Nope, again, not enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-level_domain#Historical_do...

toast0•17m ago
All of those changed their names. Not always through their choice.
pzmarzly•1h ago
Counterpoint: I lost a domain when a registrar went out of business, and another when a registrar bumped the price 10x and refused to give me authenticode unless I physically show up to their office. Sure, I cheapened out and used shady cheap registrars, and this all happened a while ago so things are probably more regulated now, but for comparison I never permanently lost access to hosted email. (Losing access temporarily is another thing, Google likes blocking me from my own account when travelling.)
mobilemidget•1h ago
I'm surprised to read they had an actual physical office you _could_ show up :)

was it a very distant location to head out to?

iamnothere•1h ago
This is why you (1) keep a local backup and (2) never ever use shady registrars for anything important. Hopefully you have learned from this and you regularly backup your email from Google in case your account becomes inaccessible for whatever reason.
cassianoleal•1h ago
I think the main worry about losing access to email is not losing access to your historical archive of email messages, but rather your sudden inability to reset passwords and recover access to other accounts.

Not to mention the risk that someone else takes possession of said email accounts and domains, in which case they essentially own every account you have that's bound to that email.

iamnothere•54m ago
The archives can be quite important, I frequently have to reference my email history for one reason or another. If I temporarily cannot receive new email, it’s not such a big deal as long as we aren’t talking about hostile account takeovers. But mostly I use self-hosted services so even that wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would be annoying to deal with, yes.
nodja•1h ago
For people reading this that are worried, .com and .net domains are price capped and while the price may rise, it's regulated directly by the ICANN. If you're paying more than that then either your registrar is not following ICANN regulations or you're buying a domain that is being resold by a third party.
rwky•1h ago
Same thing happened to me over 20 years ago back then it was common to get domain hosting email all from one provider. They hiked up the price to something extortionate and changed the owner details on the domain to themselves cost me a fair penny to get that back from then on I kept my domain email and hosting all separate and stuck with what are hopefully more reputable providers. And of course these days if it happened I'd go straight to legal action something that young me didn't think of.
hu3•1h ago
That's good but make sure you don't lose the domain. Ever.
brulard•1h ago
And that's the real hard part
iamnothere•1h ago
Have you ever lost a domain? I haven’t despite having many domains across a number of registrars over the years. Are people just using bad registrars or what?
brulard•1h ago
Yes, I have. Due to a human mistake we lost a family domain, where I hosted one of my important e-mails.
iamnothere•53m ago
Sorry to hear that. Some registrars let you pre pay for multiple years now, it’s a good idea if you have a crucial domain that you know you will be holding onto.
throwaway2037•19m ago
Did you try to contact ICANN and explain the issue? If you could prove ownership for many years, your case would be quite strong.
throwaway2037•20m ago
What scenarios are you thinking about to lose the domain? To me, the most common would be forget the pay the bill, or your credit card on file expires.

A light Google search tells me that it is possible with several different providers to pay for up to 10 years in advance. Still, the exact same issues can happen at the 10 years and 1 day mark! How do large corporations handle this problem? Do they have a special contract where the domain register will always keep the domain registered, then bill the corporation directly? That seems like a business venture with juicy margins.

manytimesaway•1h ago
"How to become unbannable"

Step 1 : go with the one company that's known worldwide for abusive & permanent bans with no recourse.

This post is a bit too generic, but it's true that using your own domain for mailing is the best solution to avoid getting locked out. Although you need to pick a good registrar, too...

morshu9001•1h ago
well your recourse is repointing the domain
JoshTriplett•1h ago
I learned this lesson when switching away from the first ISP I had email through. Rather than switching to another transient ISP email, I registered a domain. I've been through a couple of email providers but my email address never needs to change again.
simojo•1h ago
There are online services where a bad actor can enter your email to automatically sign you up for hundreds, thousands of marketing emails. In the event that that happens, given that you have full control over the domain, you could just divert whatever <x>@yourdomain.com to a black hole. What will happen when email attacks become more advanced--to the point of signing up thousands of different <x'>@yourdomain.com? What strategy would one have then? You would most certainly have to part ways with that domain.

The author makes a good point, your email address is (arguably) more important than your home address. Perhaps there already are, but I hope for better safeguards against these kinds of attacks.

kibwen•1h ago
For every crucial service (banking, etc), generate a unique, cryptographically-strong email address, save it to your password manager, and have its mail forwarded to your common inbox. If only phone numbers were so easy to mask.
ahmedfromtunis•1h ago
1) what does it mean for an email *address* to be cryptographically strong?

2) in case of hard to remember address, what do you do if asked to write it down with no access to your records? (It happened to me once before)

dotancohen•1h ago
I already am in that situation. Like onions and Ogres, my email defense is in layers.

1. Specific known compromised TO addresses are sent to devnull.

2. Specific FROM senders are whitelisted.

3. Three or sometimes four heuristics engines evaluate. If any of them pass the mail, it goes to a separate new-senders inbox. I thus get maybe a dozen spam messages per week in that box - and five figures of messages rejected.

I used to tweak it a lot, now I just occasionally add another FROM address to the whitelist.

jwkerr•1h ago
Over the past few weeks I've been systematically migrating every one of my accounts to a domain under my control.

During the process I've been marking them in a spreadsheet with their 2FA status (no 2FA, TOTP, security key, etc.) and adding their passwords to a password manager.

This is all in case I ever need to go through the migration process again for whatever reason, or if I lose/break a Yubikey, I will know what I'm signed up for, and will know where to enrol my new Yubikey(s).

It really is a massive hinge for many people that isn't even really considered, most people's entire digital lives would be uprooted if they lost access to their email for whatever reason.

Thankfully that doesn't really ever happen to most "normal" people to my knowledge, since most just use Gmail, but I know it can and has happened through account bans or such.

iamnothere•1h ago
Looks like a good intro for people who want partial self-hosting, which is better than leaving it with a megacorp (especially for non-professional email).

In before:

* running your own mail is too much of a burden

* I used to host my own mail but I couldn’t figure out DNS or used a bad IP or something and Microsoft/Gmail won’t accept my mail

* if “they” want to ban you they will just seize your domain or kick down your door and shoot your dog

* it’s good that they can ban you from your email because I don’t like spam

Edit: lol, I was not in fact “in before” the comment about domain seizures. Unbelievable.

mobilemidget•1h ago
Creating aliases for the addresses you are actually using, e.g. a netflix@ signup is preferred over a general catch all, .. and all that spam senders can generate approach.
ROBLOX_MOMENTS•1h ago
Some services will also ban you for this. Samsung, Amazon, ... so you have to use generic or random words on left side.
gblargg•1h ago
I like email forwarding services like mailgw [1]. If my email provider gives me problems, I can just forward to a different one.

[1] https://www.mailgw.com

fnord77•1h ago
Services should allow secondary email addresses.
marssaxman•1h ago
I've been doing this for years, though I don't really think of it as "having a backup" so much as "using an IMAP client". Works fine. It's really useful to be able to make up a new email address for every company who wants one; they each get their own folder. If I get any unexpected mail, it's obvious where it came from and easy to deal with, though in practice this rarely happens.
BeetleB•1h ago
> I've been doing this for years

Downloading email via POP or IMAP? Ever since I started using email in the 90's. I never deviated from it. In the old days, even the free mail hosts gave you POP access.

My own domain? Doing it for over 20 years.

marssaxman•1h ago
Yep, pretty much the same story here. The only (relatively) recent innovation is the bit where mail sent to foo@domain.com lands in a folder called "foo", so I neither have to sort out a messy inbox nor check many accounts individually.
bigwheels•1h ago
As of last week, Google is on-track to discontinue POP-polling functionality. I've been using this for about 20 years, not sure what to do. What a pain.

Gmail will no longer support checking emails from third-party accounts via POP (support.google.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45439670 - 6 days ago, 372 comments

pessimizer•55m ago
This is alarming if you just skim the headline (which I did, and was slightly alarmed), but it is about having gmail download from third-party accounts, not downloading emails from gmail. I don't think many people do this anyway, but I'm sure it was very convenient for some.
ozim•1h ago
You don’t have to have a single email address. I have plenty and various providers.

Then use mail client instead of webmail. I use thunderbird and have multiple boxes I just backup Thunderbird profiles folder to my NAS.

cosmic_cheese•1h ago
Local mail clients are excellent for taking full control of your mail without contortions.
wtf77•1h ago
That's fine for your own domain, but I usually download my emails via IMAP and don't leave anything on the remote server. Finally, do you really keep your emails? Emails are ephemeral, often just informative, and if there's anything important, I process it and delete the email. I may archive 'sentimental' emails, but I rarely search the archive as I mainly delete emails.
jrm4•1h ago
Do you mean "on the server?" I don't -- and just the opposite here; the cost of keeping literally all of them is close enough to zero, I never delete any emails and use "read/unread." I just archive yearly.
cosmic_cheese•1h ago
I keep mail because there’s been things that only became important or useful long after the fact. You just never know.

They can also serve as a sort of snapshot of a certain point in time that’s very effective at jogging your memory. I’ve had occasions where old emails reminded me of things that happened that I’d nearly forgotten or conflated details about.

bxsioshc•1h ago
I never really understood why "owning" a domain is any more owning than you own your Gmail address: a company is letting you use it and that works until they don't. What an I missing?
IlikeKitties•49m ago
You aren't missing much only that domains are a bit more portable between registrars and they've historically been a bit more resistant against random bannings.
iamnothere•44m ago
> What an I missing?

The contractual requirements that ICANN imposes upon registrars. They can’t just take your domain for any old reason. The rules are fairly well defined and registrars can lose their accreditation if they do not follow them.

https://www.icann.org/en/contracted-parties/accredited-regis...

VariousPrograms•23m ago
You probably won't get hacked and have your domain taken down for distributing malware. But you also probably won't be randomly banned by Google/Proton. Neither feels like "full, unbannable control of my email" to me. If anything, I'm more concerned about my little old domain getting hijacked than getting banned from a hosted email account.
lxgr•1h ago
> With this solution, there's a high chance that if they ban you by mistake (AI bots are to blame), they will not disable the forwarding mechanism.

Why bet on that instead of doing it the other way around (i.e. making the self-operated mail server the primary that forwards to the service provider inbox), or at least practicing doing so by pointing the MX records accordingly?

pseidemann•1h ago
Afaik sending emails is much harder than receiving, because of several layers of anti-spam measurements, which don't apply for receiving (besides local spam filters).
jrm4•1h ago
Been doing this for years, and surprised he didn't seem to mention the other benefit: "infinity" email addresses. Oh, rando burger spot wants an email for some free fries? Great, hit me up at randoburgerspot@"mydomain".com .
deadbabe•1h ago
This is the most useful thing about having your own domain for email.
imiric•1h ago
I like that as well, but it's exhausting having to explain every time that, no, I don't in fact work at randoburgerspot...
jrm4•48m ago
What? It's your opportunity to nerd out and lecture people on why they're doing email WRONG!!!

(only half joking)

jcynix•43m ago
Easy, just remove the vowels from the local part of the address: rndbrgr@example.com

Even easier: I have a list of pre-generated fantasy addresses on my smartphone and can pass one to randoburgerspot on the fly.

danielparks•2m ago
I’ve been surprised how infrequently I need to explain this — definitely fewer than 10 times in the last 20 years of doing some variation if this consistently.

I keep expecting to have to explain, but the vast majority of the time people don’t ask.

hungryhobbit•39m ago
Spamgourmet lets you do this for free without your own domain, and has other great features also.
aussieguy1234•7m ago
Could also be useful if someone puts a typo in your email username when sending you an important email. You'll still get the email with a catch-all emails set up on your own domain. But you won't without this.
bks•38m ago
Forwarding emails is problematic especially if your provider for the primary mx does not have great spam filtering and then you end up sending spam to your backup account.

It certainly does not get around the ...if your account gets banned maybe the forwards will still work... concept but in general something like https://github.com/joeyates/imap-backup to backup your email and then add them to a typical backup process with your other files works well.

qyckudnefDi5•35m ago
Anyone wanna share their email strategy? I'm thinking of going for the following but I'm still undecided:

1. 1 custom domain (<simple-word-or-two>.com): this will be used for friends, family and any online accounts that know me IRL.

Use Fastmail masked addresses with my custom domain where it makes sense like an online account for amazon.

2. 1 custom domain (<online-nickname>.xyz): this will be used for a blog, professional IRL interviews, correspondence, github.

Use Fastmail masked addresses with my custom domain where it makes sense.

3. Masked emails using fastmail.com: for online accounts that are ephemeral, random newsletter signups etc. Don't want to associate any of my custom domains or IRL identity. Don't care if these are portable.

My main goals are:

- Separate my online identity/alias used for my blog (2) from gov entities, banks etc (1).

- for more anonymity/privacy use the fastmail.com domain with masked addresses to blend in with others on this domain.

I'd love feedback and to read what you do if you want to share :)

atrettel•14m ago
Your strategy seems good to me. The primary reference that I use for this kind of stuff is Michael Bazzell's book "Extreme Privacy". It goes into some detail about his strategy for using custom domains to compartmentalize things. That's what I base my own strategy on.

The only thing that I would add is that I prefer to "salt" my single-purpose email addresses with a bunch of random characters to prevent enumeration attacks, since it would be trivial to figure out the email address that I use for different services by just guessing. If I used amazon@domain.net, I might also use uber@domain.net, etc. Adding a salt prevents this from happening.

predkambrij•28m ago
Another huge thing is that if you get banned from Google you (might) also lose "Sign in with <bigcorp>" - so you lose access to a lot more thing than just your email.
binarymax•27m ago
Anyone else have a .io domain and worried about the future?
cipehr•21m ago
What’s happening with io in the future?
bigstrat2003•4m ago
Apparently .io is the TLD for the British Indian Ocean territory, which (as I understand it) is going to go away as the UK is going to release the land. From what I understand the TLD would normally go away when the political entity does, but there has been a lot of concern in the industry because this particular TLD was very popular with outsiders.
bigstrat2003•7m ago
Yeah kinda. Honestly when I signed up for it I had no idea it was a country TLD, let alone that it might disappear so easily one day. If it does go away I'll live, but it will be quite annoying to have to switch my entire digital life over to a new domain. I've had my domain for 10+ years so lots of stuff is pointed there.
hk1337•13m ago
I am actually working on doing the opposite and getting rid of my custom domains. I’m not really doing anything with them except spending money to have them. Working on getting all my socials to basically match with a similar username and just go from there.

If I host my blog, assuming I actually start making posts, on GitHub with a custom domain, when I die then the domain will likely expire and the blog is no longer accessible. If I keep it with my GitHub .io url, it’ll be there for as long as the account is there.

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