My understanding is that all federal vehicles that aren't assigned for use of the President or heads of executive departments must have a license plate when operating on state roads.
Pulling over vehicles without plates seems like a reasonable method for local police forces to stop ICE within their jurisdiction. Why isn't this happening?
more_corn•4mo ago
Federal officials say they’re “meeting regulations”.
Which I think means “going to get away with breaking the law until someone stops them.”
> § 102-34.110 Must Government motor vehicles use Government license plates?
> Yes, you must use Government license plates on Government motor vehicles, with the exception of motor vehicles exempted under § 102-34.160, § 102-34.175 or § 102-34.180.
Second exemption:
> § 102-34.175 What motor vehicles have an unlimited exemption from displaying U.S. Government license plates and motor vehicle identification?
> Motor vehicles used primarily for investigative, law enforcement, intelligence, or security duties have an unlimited exemption from displaying U.S. Government license plates and motor vehicle identification when identifying these motor vehicles would interfere with those duties.
IANAL, but from a naive glance, your understanding seems to be incorrect. I think it's very concerning that there's no mention of the regulations in the article.
Anyone have a less naive perspective, with references?
leakycap•4mo ago
You're misunderstanding your source. You quote:
> have an unlimited exemption from displaying U.S. Government license plates
Yes ... but U.S. Gov't plates and state plates are not the same
The very thing you linked explains federal law enforcement who don't want to use "U.S. Gov't" plates have unlimited exemption to use standard state-issued license plates... you know, the kind everyone has, to blend in?
> § 3-402. Vehicles subject to registration; exceptions.
> A. Exemptions and Policy. Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer and pole trailer when driven or moved upon a highway shall be subject to the registration and certificate of title provisions of this Chapter except:
> ...
> (6) Any vehicle which is owned and operated by the federal government and externally displays evidence of federal ownership. It is the policy of the State of Illinois to promote and encourage the fullest use of its highways and to enhance the flow of commerce thus contributing to the economic, agricultural, industrial and social growth and development of this State, by authorizing the Secretary of State to negotiate and enter into reciprocal or proportional agreements or arrangements with other States, or to issue declarations setting forth reciprocal exemptions, benefits and privileges with respect to vehicles operated interstate which are properly registered in this and other States, assuring nevertheless proper registration of vehicles in Illinois as may be required by this Code;
> with references.
Please provide a reference for future comments.
leakycap•4mo ago
Just read the page you linked. It is not confusing unless you don't know how statutes work.
> § 102-34.110 Must Government motor vehicles use Government license plates? Yes, you must use Government license plates on Government motor vehicles, with the exception of motor vehicles exempted
For exempted vehicles from U.S. Government plates (as noted above), do you think state laws for plates ... just don't apply?
nomel•4mo ago
Sorry, had a procrastination timeout mid edit, so couldn't complete my comment. See edited comment above, with reference for a state plate not being required in IL. So, it appears a federal and state plate aren't required. Additionally, the link in my previous comment shows that the IL plate requirements can be negotiated.
> For exempted vehicles from U.S. Government plates (as noted above), do you think state laws for plates ... just don't apply?
Please include the reference for the requirement that contradicts what I have in the edited comment.
leakycap•4mo ago
Are you in the US and are you familiar with things like vehicle registration?
Are you unable to comprehend that if a vehicle does not have a federally-issued license plate, then it still requires a plate to be legal on the road... in which case, federal vehicles can use state plates. As quoted many times above, including my original comment.
Allowing law enforcement vehicles of any kind to go plateless would make it very simple for anyone wishing not to be tracked to go plateless. "Oh look, there's the FBI in an unmarked '95 Corsica" ... wait, no, driving without plates is not legal, so that '95 Corsica is probably just a driver without plates. Pull them over.
Driving without plates will get you pulled over in any state in the US.
Again, help me understand why you need another source to connect this information? Have you tried to make sense of the link you posted? I'm not your tutor, so I'm not sure what kind of help is needed to make this clear to you: you cannot drive on any public road in any state without a license plate.
nomel•3mo ago
> unlimited exemption from displaying U.S. Government license plates and motor vehicle identification when identifying these motor vehicles would interfere with those duties.
Note the "and motor vehicle identification". I read this as not requiring motor vehicle identification, which would be a plate.
I'm sure it would cause problems with local law enforcement. I think that's a separate concern.
> "Motor vehicles that have been exempted from the requirement to display official U.S. Government license plates under section § 102-34.160, § 102-34.175 or § 102-34.180 must be registered and inspected in accordance with the laws of the jurisdiction where the motor vehicle is regularly operated."
nomel•3mo ago
Registration and inspection aren't related to displaying a plate.
Since this conversation is getting increasingly irrational, this is my last response.
leakycap•3mo ago
> "you provided a link I asked for that unambiguously proved my repeated statements completely incorrect, so I'll be signing off now but I wanted to reply and let you know I'm still gonna think I'm right even though operating a vehicle on the roadway with out a license plate is obviously against the rules of the road"
It's fascinating to see the mental flips to ignore information when it doesn't fit your own opinion.
cozzyd•4mo ago
But Illinois law would still require them to have a license plate, generally, even if not a US Government one (in fact, the picture in the article shows an Illinois license plate on a vehicle that does have one).
> How are these ICE goons not being stopped by local forces?
Because the rule of law isn't absolute any more? Because the local cops know these goons have the backing of the corrupt federal government and trying to get them to follow the law would get them (the local cops) beat up, jailed, etc, instead?
Welcome to a shithole country!
As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said "In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our Government is the potent, omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example... If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself.".
And as this lady who studied corruption observed, https://archive.ph/E6zXj corruption doesn't help with fighting insurgency, just think about how many would not report to the cops if they saw Luigi Mangione.
1970-01-01•4mo ago
If this was scaled up to the entire fleet, I imagine several vans would be stolen everyday. Car thieves love this one weird trick..
nomel•4mo ago
Plates aren't an anti-theft device. Many state and federal vehicles have asset trackers. For example:
leakycap•4mo ago
Pulling over vehicles without plates seems like a reasonable method for local police forces to stop ICE within their jurisdiction. Why isn't this happening?
more_corn•4mo ago
nomel•4mo ago
> § 102-34.110 Must Government motor vehicles use Government license plates?
> Yes, you must use Government license plates on Government motor vehicles, with the exception of motor vehicles exempted under § 102-34.160, § 102-34.175 or § 102-34.180.
Second exemption:
> § 102-34.175 What motor vehicles have an unlimited exemption from displaying U.S. Government license plates and motor vehicle identification?
> Motor vehicles used primarily for investigative, law enforcement, intelligence, or security duties have an unlimited exemption from displaying U.S. Government license plates and motor vehicle identification when identifying these motor vehicles would interfere with those duties.
IANAL, but from a naive glance, your understanding seems to be incorrect. I think it's very concerning that there's no mention of the regulations in the article.
Anyone have a less naive perspective, with references?
leakycap•4mo ago
> have an unlimited exemption from displaying U.S. Government license plates
Yes ... but U.S. Gov't plates and state plates are not the same
The very thing you linked explains federal law enforcement who don't want to use "U.S. Gov't" plates have unlimited exemption to use standard state-issued license plates... you know, the kind everyone has, to blend in?
nomel•4mo ago
https://codes.findlaw.com/il/chapter-625-vehicles/il-st-sect...
> § 3-402. Vehicles subject to registration; exceptions.
> A. Exemptions and Policy. Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer and pole trailer when driven or moved upon a highway shall be subject to the registration and certificate of title provisions of this Chapter except:
> ...
> (6) Any vehicle which is owned and operated by the federal government and externally displays evidence of federal ownership. It is the policy of the State of Illinois to promote and encourage the fullest use of its highways and to enhance the flow of commerce thus contributing to the economic, agricultural, industrial and social growth and development of this State, by authorizing the Secretary of State to negotiate and enter into reciprocal or proportional agreements or arrangements with other States, or to issue declarations setting forth reciprocal exemptions, benefits and privileges with respect to vehicles operated interstate which are properly registered in this and other States, assuring nevertheless proper registration of vehicles in Illinois as may be required by this Code;
> with references.
Please provide a reference for future comments.
leakycap•4mo ago
> § 102-34.110 Must Government motor vehicles use Government license plates? Yes, you must use Government license plates on Government motor vehicles, with the exception of motor vehicles exempted
For exempted vehicles from U.S. Government plates (as noted above), do you think state laws for plates ... just don't apply?
nomel•4mo ago
> For exempted vehicles from U.S. Government plates (as noted above), do you think state laws for plates ... just don't apply?
Please include the reference for the requirement that contradicts what I have in the edited comment.
leakycap•4mo ago
Are you unable to comprehend that if a vehicle does not have a federally-issued license plate, then it still requires a plate to be legal on the road... in which case, federal vehicles can use state plates. As quoted many times above, including my original comment.
Allowing law enforcement vehicles of any kind to go plateless would make it very simple for anyone wishing not to be tracked to go plateless. "Oh look, there's the FBI in an unmarked '95 Corsica" ... wait, no, driving without plates is not legal, so that '95 Corsica is probably just a driver without plates. Pull them over.
Driving without plates will get you pulled over in any state in the US.
Again, help me understand why you need another source to connect this information? Have you tried to make sense of the link you posted? I'm not your tutor, so I'm not sure what kind of help is needed to make this clear to you: you cannot drive on any public road in any state without a license plate.
nomel•3mo ago
Note the "and motor vehicle identification". I read this as not requiring motor vehicle identification, which would be a plate.
I'm sure it would cause problems with local law enforcement. I think that's a separate concern.
leakycap•3mo ago
> "Motor vehicles that have been exempted from the requirement to display official U.S. Government license plates under section § 102-34.160, § 102-34.175 or § 102-34.180 must be registered and inspected in accordance with the laws of the jurisdiction where the motor vehicle is regularly operated."
nomel•3mo ago
Since this conversation is getting increasingly irrational, this is my last response.
leakycap•3mo ago
It's fascinating to see the mental flips to ignore information when it doesn't fit your own opinion.
cozzyd•4mo ago
nomel•4mo ago
They don't seem to be required in IL, on federal vehicles: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45532733
netsharc•4mo ago
Because the rule of law isn't absolute any more? Because the local cops know these goons have the backing of the corrupt federal government and trying to get them to follow the law would get them (the local cops) beat up, jailed, etc, instead?
Welcome to a shithole country!
As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said "In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our Government is the potent, omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example... If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself.".
And as this lady who studied corruption observed, https://archive.ph/E6zXj corruption doesn't help with fighting insurgency, just think about how many would not report to the cops if they saw Luigi Mangione.