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Fighting Email Spam on Your Mail Server with LLMs – Privately

https://cybercarnet.eu/posts/email-spam-llm/
2•kevinak•5m ago•0 comments

Java Shell User's Guide

https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/21/jshell/introduction-jshell.html
1•TrianguloY•5m ago•0 comments

AI videos of dead celebrities are horrifying many of their families

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/10/11/openai-sora-dead-celebrities-ai/
1•bookofjoe•9m ago•1 comments

M*LIB The STL library for modern C

https://github.com/P-p-H-d/mlib
1•synergy20•12m ago•0 comments

Meta Superintelligence's surprising first paper

https://paddedinputs.substack.com/p/meta-superintelligences-surprising
1•skadamat•13m ago•0 comments

Bitcoin Whale Shorted $1.1B Right Before Tariffs

https://cryptonews.com/news/early-bitcoin-whale-shorted-1-1b-right-before-tariffs-now-up-27m-how-...
2•somewhatrandom9•18m ago•1 comments

You can use almost anything as a key file for encrypted storage device (2024)

https://ounapuu.ee/posts/2024/11/20/keyfiles/
1•sipofwater•19m ago•1 comments

22% Jump in Electricity Rates Dominates New Jersey Governor's Race

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/09/business/new-jersey-electricity-prices-governor-election.html
5•JumpCrisscross•20m ago•2 comments

Kalshi hits $5B valuation

https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/10/kalshi-hits-5b-valuation-days-after-rival-polymarket-gets-2b-ny...
2•JumpCrisscross•21m ago•0 comments

Apple says goodbye to the Clips app

https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/11/apple-says-goodbye-to-the-clips-app/
1•JumpCrisscross•22m ago•0 comments

Show HN: I built a local-first timeboxing app that never leaves your computer

https://focusbox.dev/
1•akarnam37•22m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Scout – micro-game teaser for a map-based cycling RPG

https://ridewithgps.com/scout
1•zackham•23m ago•1 comments

US moves to cancel one of the largest solar farms

https://www.ft.com/content/7a3cd922-88ed-4188-86ab-ba09fbe24d42
3•doener•23m ago•0 comments

Geoblocking Multiple Localities with Nginx

https://aphyr.com/posts/395-geoblocking-multiple-localities-with-nginx
1•sulami•24m ago•0 comments

We Found a Hidden Camera in the Bathroom of Our Airbnb

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/09/travel/airbnb-refund-camera-bathroom.html
2•danso•25m ago•2 comments

Metascience Since 2012: A Personal History

https://goodscience.substack.com/p/metascience-since-2012-a-personal
1•AcesoUnderGlass•27m ago•0 comments

What will it take to get to net-zero emissions in California?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421525003556
1•PaulHoule•28m ago•0 comments

CamoLeak: Critical GitHub Copilot Vulnerability Leaks Private Source Code

https://www.legitsecurity.com/blog/camoleak-critical-github-copilot-vulnerability-leaks-private-s...
1•greyadept•31m ago•0 comments

At this rate, the price of gold could soar to $10K per ounce in just 3 years

https://fortune.com/2025/10/11/gold-price-outlook-10000-debasement-trade-dedollarization/
1•teleforce•31m ago•0 comments

The Scale Issue

https://spectrum.ieee.org/special-reports/scale/
1•rbanffy•33m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Minichessgames.com

https://minichessgames.com/
1•patrickdavey•33m ago•0 comments

IBM Ships Homegrown "Spyre" Accelerators, Embraces Anthropic for AI Push

https://www.nextplatform.com/2025/10/10/ibm-ships-homegrown-spyre-accelerators-embraces-anthropic...
2•rbanffy•34m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Build websites with AI, no coding required

https://instantsite.app
1•emanuilv•34m ago•1 comments

How close are we to solid state batteries for electric vehicles?

https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/technology/2025/next-gen-car-batteries-get-closer-to...
1•rbanffy•40m ago•0 comments

All-in-One Church Management System for Smaller Churches

2•rcullins•41m ago•1 comments

How This Chinese Startup Is Crushing Dyson's Empire [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9aGvX917bg
1•thelastgallon•44m ago•0 comments

Heroin Addicts Often Seem Normal

https://justismills.substack.com/p/heroin-addicts-often-seem-normal
5•surprisetalk•45m ago•1 comments

Moving Compute Intensive Lambdas from AWS to Vercel

https://www.moneyonfire.com/resources/aws-vercel
2•LambdaAndLatte•46m ago•0 comments

Intersections Are Changing the Roads Forever [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFtDqUVHH6o
1•surprisetalk•46m ago•0 comments

Amplituhedra and Origami

https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.09574
1•westurner•59m ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

How much revenue is needed to justify the current AI spend?

https://pracap.com/an-ai-addendum/
63•polskibus•2h ago

Comments

gyomu•1h ago
There are two main threads I keep going back to when thinking about long term AI and why so many investors/statespeople are all in:

1) the labor angle: it’s been stated plainly by many execs that the goal is to replace double percent digits of their workforce with AI of some sort. Human wages being what they are, the savings there are meaningful and seemingly worth the gamble.

2) the military angle: the future of warfare seems to be autonomous weapons/vehicles of all sorts. Given the winner takes all nature of warfare, any edge you can get there is worth it. If not investing enough in AI means the US gets steamrolled by China in the Pacific (and other countries getting steamrolled by whomever China wants to sell/lend its tech to), then it seems to justify most any investment, no matter how ridiculous the current returns seem.

Analemma_•1h ago
> it’s been stated plainly by many execs that the goal is to replace double percent digits of their workforce with AI of some sort

Even if we grant that this is possible, have any of these execs actually thought through what happens when their competitors also replace large chunks of their workforce with AI and then begin undercutting them on price? The idea that "our prices will stay exactly the same, but our salary costs will go to zero and become pure profit instead!" is delusional even if AI can actually replace large numbers of people, which itself is quite doubtful.

nothercastle•1h ago
Presumably if your competitors go to 0 workers before you do they win but in practice that’s unlikely to work. Most companies would be better off buying mature tech once clear savings opportunity materialize.
JumpCrisscross•1h ago
> idea that "our prices will stay exactly the same, but our salary costs will go to zero and become pure profit instead!" is delusional

Has anyone said this?

The point is such a shift would transfer spending from labour to these AI companies. That satisfies their investors' thesis requirement.

bitmasher9•53m ago
Except AI companies are competing with each other for that revenue so total spend will go down.
JumpCrisscross•45m ago
> AI companies are competing with each other for that revenue so total spend will go down

You're describing elasticity. None of this is particularly novel. If there is sufficient demand, the thesis is met: returns may not be astronomical, but they'll be positive for at least some of the major players. (Those with the most efficient operations or ability to command a price premium.)

the_bear•27m ago
This is the main thing that's been bugging me about the AI discussion. People seem to forget that capitalism is competitive, and if everyone gains the same advantage, then it's not an advantage. If the cost of labor goes down, it means companies will either need to lower their prices or increase their investment in other areas (e.g. hiring even more people now that they're cheaper).

Unless you're a monopoly, I don't see how AI will lead to these massive cost savings everyone is hoping for.

nothercastle•1h ago
Warfare isn’t really a winner takes all affair. Unless you absolutely crush your enemy most warfare ends in a stalemate of one form or another with the victor getting an advantage over the looser. In many cases medium tech advantages can be countered either with better logistics, willingness to trade losses or quality of weapons.
aswanson•38m ago
I think the ai angle for warfare is overhyped. Most of the autonomous drone stuff happening in Ukraine is not running on bleeding edge nodes. It's radxa sbcs with process nodes from 10 years ago.
MontyCarloHall•28m ago
Right, the vast majority of compute for autonomous warfare will be at the edge. The latency/jammability of having to communicate with a massive datacenter halfway around the world running bleeding-edge models is a nonstarter. Not to mention that these models are overkill for something like an autonomous suicide drone that just needs a relatively simple CNN trained to recognize enemy uniforms/materiel/buildings/etc.
marcosdumay•25m ago
On 1, the railroads had a better point at that than the AI companies. They did allow dispersed industry to integrate, did multiply their countries GDP by a sizeable amount, and went bankrupt anyway.

If those companies replace a low 2-digits percentages of the developers, and capture their entire salary, it's still not enough to reach the depreciation numbers on the article.

On 2, that could justify it... Except that we are talking about fucking LLMs. What do anybody expect LLMs to do in a war that will completely obliterate some country?

aeon_ai•1h ago
I generally get frustrated about this type of framing because it’s myopic and narrow.

We are in geopolitically fraught times. Money alone is not capital.

We have been living in an era where financial capital has dominated.

We are entering an era where computing capital, intellectual capital, and military capital will dominate.

The people in control of those when the game changes are the ones writing the rules.

JumpCrisscross•1h ago
> We are entering an era where computing capital, intellectual capital, and military capital will dominate

These are bullshit terms. Capital is capital. Military production, IP production and yes, AIs running in datacentres and on the grid, are all subject to economic forces. (Folks argued railroads were a different form of capital in the 19th century, too. And fibre optics. And tulips. And dot-com companies. And computer-assembled American mortgage instruments.)

We might be investing for a golden future. We might be the Soviet Union baited into unsustainable spending commitments. The answer to these questions isn't in pretending this time is different, or that economics can be suspended when it comes to certain questions of production and return.

nbngeorcjhe•22m ago
> We are entering an era where computing capital, intellectual capital, and military capital will dominate

yes, true, but it would probably be better to pour money into shipyards than data centers

827a•1h ago
> the industry is spending over $30 billion a month (approximately $400 billion for 2025) and only receiving a bit more than a billion a month back in revenue.

I suspect that this revenue number is a vast underestimation, even today, ignoring the reality of untapped revenue streams like ChatGPT's 800M advertising eyeballs.

1. Google has stated that Gemini is processing 1.3 quadrillion tokens per month. Its hard to convert this into raw revenue; its spread across different models, much of it is likely internal usage, or usage more tied to a workspace subscription rather than per-token API billing. But to give a sense of this scale, this is what that annualized revenue looks like priced at per-token API pricing for their different models, assuming a 50/50 input/output: Gemini 2.5 Flash Lite: ~$9B/year, Gemini 2.5 Flash: ~$22.8B/year, Gemini 2.5 Pro: ~$110B/year.

2. ChatGPT has 800M weekly active users. If 10% of these users are on the paid plan, this is $19.2B/year. Adjust this value depending on what percentage of users you believe pay for ChatGPT. Sam has announced that they're processing 6B API tokens per minute, which, again depending on the model, puts their annualized API revenue between $1B-$31B.

3. Anthropic has directly stated that their annualized revenue, as of August, was $5B [2]. Given their growth, and the success of Claude 4.5, its likely this number is more around $6B-$7B right now.

So, just with these three companies, which are the three biggest involved in infrastructure rollouts, we're likely somewhere in the realm of ~$30B/year? Very fuzzy and hard, but at the very least I think its weird to guess that the number is closer to like $12B. Its possible the article is basing its estimates on numbers from earlier in 2025, but to be frank: If you're not refreshing your knowledge on this stuff every week, you're out of date. Its moving so fast.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bard/comments/1o3ex1v/gemini_is_pro...

[2] https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropic-raises-series-f-at-...

N70Phone•48m ago
> even today, ignoring the reality of untapped revenue streams like ChatGPT's 800M advertising eyeballs.

Respectfully, the idea of sticking ads in LLMs is just copium. It's never going to work.

LLMs' unfixable inclination for hallucinations makes this an infinite lawsuit machine. Either the regulators will tear OpenAI to shreds over it, or the advertisers seeing their trademarks hijacked by scammers will do it in their stead. LLMs just cannot be controlled enough for this idea to make sense, even with RAG.

And if we step away from the idea of putting ads in the LLM response, we're left with "stick a banner ad on chatgpt dot com". The exact same scheme as the Dotcom Bubble. Worked real well that time, I hear. "Stick a banner ad on it" was a shit idea in 2000. It's not going to bail out AI in 2025.

The original content that LLMs paraphrase is itself struggling to support itself on ads. The idea that you can steal all those impressions through a service that is orders and orders of magnitude more expensive and somehow turn a profit on those very same ads is ludicrous.

827a•19m ago
While it didn't work in 2000, "just stick ads on it" does work for Google and Meta, driving over $400B in combined annual advertising revenue. Their model, today, is far more relevant than calling back to antiquated banner advertising models from 25 years ago; you'll have to convince me that Google and Meta's model cannot work for OpenAI, which you have not adequately done.
jcranmer•34m ago
> 2. ChatGPT has 800M weekly active users. If 10% of these users are on the paid plan, this is $19.2B/year. Adjust this value depending on what percentage of users you believe pay for ChatGPT. Sam has announced that they're processing 6B API tokens per minute, which, again depending on the model, puts their annualized API revenue between $1B-$31B.

OpenAI announced a few months ago that it had finally cracked $1B in monthly revenue (intriguingly, it did so twice, which makes me wonder how much fibbing there is in these statements).

I'll also say this: the fact that AI companies prefer to tout their usage numbers rather than their revenue numbers is a sign that their revenue numbers isn't stellar (especially given that several of the Big Tech companies have stopped reporting AI revenue as separate call-outs).

827a•27m ago
> OpenAI announced a few months ago that it had finally cracked $1B in monthly revenue (intriguingly, it did so twice, which makes me wonder how much fibbing there is in these statements).

I believe this is incorrect; as far as I've heard, an anonymous source leaked that OpenAI had hit $12B in annualized revenue a few months ago [1]. I do not personally put any weight in leaks, and prefer to operate on data that has been officially announced.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/openai-hits-12-billion-annu...

jcranmer•21m ago
If you want officially announced data, OpenAI made $4.3 billion in the first half of this year.
827a•18m ago
Also not official numbers my brother [1]. Check your sources.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/openais-first-half-revenu...

jcranmer•15m ago
"Reported to shareholders" is a whole heck of a lot more accurate than some person on the internet playing numerology to turn similarly sketchily-sourced user numbers into revenue numbers.
827a•2m ago
That number was not reported as "reported to shareholders". Again, its astounding how wrong you keep getting this. It was leaked to The Information by an anonymous source who claimed to be a shareholder who received this financial disclosure.

Its all about citation. Everyone who read my numerology estimations above knew that they were estimations. You, on the other hand, lied about two different leaks of OpenAI's revenue numbers as being "official".

iLoveOncall•33m ago
> ChatGPT has 800M weekly active users. If 10% of these users are on the paid plan

I wouldn't believe it if you told me even 1% of those users are paying. 10% is simply ridiculous.

goalieca•22m ago
Many many workplaces are now mandating AI usage in some form. I could easily see it.
sfifs•26m ago
I think you're underestimating how quickly users can move to another platform if something better / cheaper shows up unless there are user network effects that benefit / keep people on a platform. We've lived through several of these - yahoo/lycos to Google. A bunch of terrible providers to GMail, various messengers to Apple/WhatsApp/line dominating countries etc. This space seems ripe for the second mover advantage effect
chubot•1h ago
I believe Google has earned the most revenue of any business ever [1]

So if the idea is to unseat Google, and make LLMs that are monetized by ads -- well that would be a lot of revenue!

The problem is obviously that Google knows this, and they made huge investments in AI before anyone else

---

I guess someone wants to do to Google what Apple did to Microsoft in the mobile era -- take over the operating system that matters by building something new (mobile), not by directly trying to unseat Microsoft

The problem seems to be that no one has figured out what the network effect in LLMs is. Google has a few network effects, but the bidder / ad buyer network is very strong -- they can afford to pay out a bigger rev share than anybody else

Google also had very few competitors early on -- Yahoo was the most credible competitor for a long time. And employees didn't leave to start competitors. Whereas OpenAI has splintered into 5 or more companies, fairly early in its life

[1] at least according to the Acquired podcast, which is reputable

edit: oops, it was profit, not revenue

https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/google

Google with this business model makes more profits than any other company, ergo tautologically, is the most magical business model ever discovered.

jcranmer•1h ago
> I believe Google has earned the most revenue of any business ever [1]

By yearly revenue, the highest revenue company is Walmart, followed by Amazon, which make somewhere near twice the revenue of Alphabet (around 11th place, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_r...). Especially if you account the inflation, the total lifetime revenues of the major oil companies will easily dwarf Google.

Google is nowhere close to earning the most revenue of any business ever.

suriya-ganesh•46m ago
There's difference between running on a margin of 5% and 90% at those scale
JumpCrisscross•43m ago
> There's difference between running on a margin of 5% and 90% at those scale

OP said revenue, not profit. And neither of those numbers are relevant to Google, which runs a 32% (28%) operating (net) margin [1].

That said, yes, Google is the most profitable company in the world [2]. But its $116bn is not in a different league from Microsoft's $102bn, Apple's $99bn or Saudi Aramco's $96bn.

[1] https://s206.q4cdn.com/479360582/files/doc_financials/2025/q...

[2] https://www.financecharts.com/screener/most-profitable

Wowfunhappy•21m ago
...I kind of don't understand why revenue is ever a useful metric. I imagine I could make a lot of revenue selling hundred dollar bills for $10.
jcranmer•17m ago
The value of revenue as a metric is that you can't really play financial games to screw with revenue, while there's lots of stuff you can do to inflate or deflate your profit. See, e.g., Hollywood accounting.

Neither revenue nor profit is the full story, though.

JumpCrisscross•14m ago
> you can't really play financial games to screw with revenue

Accrual accounting gives lots of room for revenue-recognition fuckery [1].

[1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/revenuerecognition.asp

jcranmer•39m ago
The claim was "most revenue."

Of course, even you go by most profit, Saudi Aramco still has Google beat, because it turns out that being able to charge highest market price for oil that costs you $5/barrel to make and being around for decades gives you an astounding lifetime net profit.

bitmasher9•59m ago
> I believe Google has earned the most revenue of any business ever

Google is very large, and I’m sure Acquired framed the statement is such a way that it’s true, but this statement as you presented it is false.

Other publicly traded companies have reported more lifetime revenue. Other product categories besides internet search have generated more revenue.

MontyCarloHall•54m ago
>The problem seems to be that no one has figured out what the network effect in LLMs is.

At the very least, the exact same network effects with respect to advertising that search has. The vast majority of frequent ChatGPT users I know mostly use it like a search engine.

That said, those network effects will be massive. Ads in LLMs are going to be unprecedentedly lucrative, irrespective of the platform. Google/Meta currently charge so much for ads because they have such enormous proprietary profiles on users based on their search/communication history that they can offer advertisers the ability to target users with extraordinary granularity. But at the end of the day, the ad itself is static and obviously an ad. LLMs will make these ads dynamic and insidious, subtly injected into chats in the way a real-life conversation might happen to discuss products. LLMs will become the ultimate word-of-mouth advertisers, the final form of astroturfing.

marcosdumay•42m ago
> I believe Google has earned the most revenue of any business ever

As people pointed, this is wrong.

But anyway, Google's revenue last year was enough to satisfy the smallest point of the interval the article points out. And barely so.

So if everything goes perfectly for the next 5 years capital-wise, and AI manages to capture Google's revenue, at the most optimist conditions, they will be able to break even with depreciation.

Honestly, that is better than what I was expecting. But it completely different from the picture you will see in any media.

jayveeone•2m ago
The problem seems more to be that every last one of these companies are burning through cash at an astonishing rate. No one, least of all Google, is making a profit from AI. They keep dangling AGI in front of investors even though no one can really define what it is.

Companies like Uber and Amazon operated at a loss, true. But they had an actual product. And they didn't come close to the money Google, Meta, OpenAI and Microsoft are losing.

dgfitz•1h ago
> As you can imagine, when you’re the vendor, the customer and the investor in a company, there’s a strong incentive to artificially inflate the numbers by signing preferable contracts that use very large numbers, and then round-trip the capital.

That about sums it up.

travisgriggs•1h ago
> This is one of those rather surreal situations where everyone senior in this ecosystem knows that the math doesn’t work, but they don’t know that everyone else also knows this. They thought that they were the foolish ones, who simply didn’t get it.

I don’t know if it’s that surreal or unexpected. There’s a reason “The Emperors Clothes” is such a classic, enduring, fable. It’s happened before. It’ll happen again.

Not shading the article. All good points, just was surprised the author threw this bit in.

Buy more tulips.

JumpCrisscross•35m ago
> Buy more tulips

Railroads and fibre are better examples. Tulips are actually fucking useless as a productive asset. Railroads, fibre-optic cables, power production and datacentres are not.

gerdesj•1h ago
"the industry is spending over $30 billion a month (approximately $400 billion for 2025) and only receiving a bit more than a billion a month back in revenue."

That's called a "bubble". Obviously, this time it is different until it isn't.

I own several books of trig and other tables, three slide rules and a couple of calculators, a working Commodore 64 and an IT consultancy company.

We are fiddling with LLMs as yet another tool. We are getting some great results but not earth shattering.

Tulips are very pretty flowers. I have several dozen in my garden. I have some plants that are way more valuable than tulips in my garden too.

gerdesj•24m ago
Oh dear. I didn't even mention my crocosmia stash by name and I pissed someone off. They are jolly expensive to buy and I have a good 30' by 5' bed stuffed full of them. A crocosmia plant in a pot costs about £5-20. I've got loads of them. You shoudl see my acer (maple) collection. Mind blown.

Oh, AI.

It is artificial but it is not intelligent. A LLM (int al) is a marvelous thing. I find sheer joy in conversing with a "gpt-oss-20b F16" that runs on a £600 GPU and a slack handful of CPU and RAM because so little gives so much.

christophilus•9m ago
My brother put it this way, “ It’s the equivalent to us doing the Apollo space program PER MONTH.”
tobias3•56m ago
On one of the latest Odd lots episodes finally an analyst had an investment thesis that made sense to me:

They think they are building an AI god.

If you think of it in religious terms it suddenly makes sense. Expected rate of return? One scenario has has infinite expected return (some kind of pascals wager/mugging)!

Of course there will be no AGI. Just a planet we'll have to live on where those deluded idiots wasted our resources on some boondoggle. Maybe this kind of concentration of power is a bad thing? I think we are going to get to those kind of questions once the party is over.

nickreese•49m ago
Wow, weird to see Kuppy on this platform. Thought it was a mistake haha.
jedberg•39m ago
I've said it before and I'll said it again:

The people investing in AI companies (and the big players spending in AI) are seeking Artificial General Intelligence (AGI). It's the only way they get a return on their capital.

They are investing so they can get there first. Money basically becomes meaningless at that point, whoever owns the AGI owns the world. That's the only way to get a return on that investment.

JumpCrisscross•13m ago
> people investing in AI companies (and the big players spending in AI) are seeking Artificial General Intelligence (AGI). It's the only way they get a return on their capital

Then why fuck around with ads?

jedberg•11m ago
They still need income to offset the spend.
JumpCrisscross•10m ago
> They still need income to offset the spend

How would you test the hypothesis that they're running these like regular businsses versus on a crusade?

jedberg•3m ago
I'm assuming you're trying to get me to say "you don't, they look the same".

I'm just giving the view from an investors point of view -- you don't expect these to eventually run like a normal business where their revenue exceeds their cost. You expect them to make as much revenue as they can while they spend more than the make to get to AGI.

Ekaros•37m ago
In current system if you do not do actual straight up criminal fraud you get charged for you get to keep all the money you got on the way. So even if math never makes sense there is money to be earned for the time being. And then when it fails, well there is always the next scheme. And next round of people who believe they can extract their share on the way.
martinald•35m ago
I think the fibre optic analogy is a bad one. The key reason supply massively outstripped demand was that optical equipment massively improved in efficiency.

We are not seeing that (currently) with GPUs. Perf/watt has basically completely stalled out recently while tokens per user has easily increased in many use cases has went up 100x+ (take Claude code usage vs normal chat usage). It's very very unlikely we will get breakthroughs in compute efficiency in the same way we did in the late 90s/2000s for fiber optic capacity.

Secondly, I'm not convinced the capex has increased that much. From some brief research the major tech firms (hyperscalers + meta) were spending something like $10-15bn a month in capex in 2019. Now if we assume that spend has all been rebadged AI, and adjust for inflation it's a big ramp but not quite as big as it seems, especially when you consider construction inflation has been horrendous virtually everywhere post covid.

What I really think is going on is some sort of prisoners dilemma with capex. If you don't build then you are at serious risk of shortages assuming demand does continue in even the short and medium term. This then potentially means you start churning major non AI workloads along with the AI work from eg AWS. So everyone is booking up all the capacity they can get, and let's keep in mind a small fraction of these giant trillion dollar numbers being thrown around from especially OpenAI are actually hard commitments.

To be honest if it wasn't for Claude code I would be extremely skeptical of the demand story but given I now get through millions of tokens a day, if even a small percentage of knowledge workers globally adopt similar tooling it's sort of a given we are in for a very large shortage of compute. I'm sure there will be various market corrections along the way, but I do think we are going to require a shedload more data centres.

ThomasCloarec•32m ago
This is a crucial question that often gets overlooked in the AI hype cycle. The article makes a great point about the disconnect between infrastructure investment and actual revenue generation.

A few thoughts:

1. The comparison to previous tech bubbles is apt - we're seeing massive capex without clear paths to profitability for many use cases.

2. The "build it and they will come" mentality might work for foundational models, but the application layer needs more concrete business cases.

3. Enterprise adoption is happening, but at a much slower pace than the investment would suggest. Most companies are still in pilot phases.

4. The real value might come from productivity gains rather than direct revenue - harder to measure but potentially more impactful long-term.

What's your take on which AI applications will actually generate enough value to justify the current spending levels?

Gigachad•28m ago
This reads like a chatgpt response.
Wowfunhappy•24m ago
> We are not seeing that (currently) with GPUs. Perf/watt has basically completely stalled out recently while tokens per user has easily increased in many use cases has went up 100x+ (take Claude code usage vs normal chat usage). It's very very unlikely we will get breakthroughs in compute efficiency in the same way we did in the late 90s/2000s for fiber optic capacity.

At least for gaming, GPU performance per dollar has gotten a lot better in the last decade. It hasn't gotten much better in the past couple of years specifically, but I assume a lot of that is due to the increased demand for AI use driving up the price for consumers.

Why wouldn't Moore's Law continue?

t_mann•27m ago
I don't get why ads are never mentioned in the article. The current use cases of GenAI (chatbots, generate [art] for me,...) have extremely obvious monetization angles through ads, and then there's a positive chance that they can bring in revenue through more ways than that (they already do in the form of subscriptions, eg). It might be that the economics still don't work out, but at least it should be considered?
DonsDiscountGas•19m ago
90% of the reason I use chat gpt is that it doesn't have ads. Shove them in and usage goes way down.

Also ads only make sense for the use case of direct chatting with a user, any type of automation (the big promise of AI) ads don't matter.

Havoc•26m ago
It's an interesting thought experiment, but not sure it's the entire story.

Imagine at the start of the electrification era people went "We'd need to build loads of cables and power plants and stuff that's expensive, lets just stick to steam power".

It's not a bet on this making sense via pedestrian business economics but rather that it'll be a game changer.

...whether that pans out is a technological and societal question, not an economic one in my mind

JumpCrisscross•25m ago
> Imagine at the start of the electrification era people went "We'd need to build loads of cables and power plants and stuff that's expensive, lets just stick to steam power"

False dichotomy. There are literally infinite options between ignoring AI and spending a quarter of a trillion on it annually.

tim333•6m ago
The electrification era was quite gradual compared to this. Generators invented around 1870, 70% of US houses hooked up by 1930, so about sixty years. Altman and friends seem in an awful hurry.
JumpCrisscross•1m ago
> Altman and friends seem in an awful hurry

Fibre and railroads, again, are really good comparisons. Both involved busineasses built on advancing technology. If you built your network before signalling, your costs were immediately higher than a competitor who rolled out more slowly. Similarly, do we really think Nvidia has had its last say in GPUs?