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Despite what's happening in the USA, renewables are winning globally

https://thebulletin.org/2025/10/despite-whats-happening-in-the-usa-renewables-are-winning-globally/
72•pseudolus•2h ago

Comments

WillPostForFood•1h ago
The featured image in the article is looks like an ecological nightmare.

https://thebulletin.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/GettyImag...

zdragnar•1h ago
On the one hand, there are some benefits to the ground cover that aren't possible in wide open plains.

On the other, a bad hailstorm means a lot of glass and scraps to pick up.

PeakKS•1h ago
Wow you're right, a massive coal plant would be much more ecologically friendly.
sigwinch•1h ago
Nah, burning an entire field of panels produces less heavy metal contamination than a day of coal.
BLKNSLVR•1h ago
I've only heard a couple of things on the topic, but there is research into multi-use of land for large scale solar with existing agriculture.

https://cleanenergycouncil.org.au/news-resources/new-guide-s...

aaronbrethorst•1h ago
The most remarkable details about solar panels I've heard recently came from the environmentalist Bill McKibben[1] on a podcast[2]:

I was standing in a cornfield in Illinois this time last summer, with a farmer who grew corn for ethanol and was converting much of his fields to solar arrays. He said, I can grow in this acre, and he pointed to an acre in a good farmerly way, he said, in this acre, I can grow enough ethanol to run my Ford F-150 pickup, most beloved vehicle in the American iconography. It’ll run 25,000 miles off the ethanol I can grow on an acre in a year. If I cover that same acre with solar panels, then I can produce enough electrons to run my Ford F-150 Lightning, the EV version of the same truck, I can run that not 25,000 miles, but 700,000 miles.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_McKibben

[2] https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-podcast/why-is-this-happening/di...

hshdhdhehd•1h ago
As does:

* Picture of a city

* Picture of ploughed fields (was wooded preciously)

* Picture of any other type of power generation plant

dvrj101•37m ago
especially this one : https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:834/format:webp/1*A7cL...

- https://medium.com/appalachian-studies-fall-2017-projects/mo... - https://e360.yale.edu/features/a-troubling-look-at-the-human...

Gigachad•22m ago
From what I’ve seen, solar panels end up being quite good for plant life since they provide partial shade from the sun. Basically a shade cloth that’s productive on its own.
zdragnar•1h ago
Duh? The US has a lot of easy and cheap access to fossil fuels. With Russia cut off, solar is a really easy part of the equation for a lot of countries.

Here in the US, I'd expect we wouldn't be adding much new coal or nat gas either if it weren't for all the data centers going up everywhere. The amount of electricity going into the Internet and AI is wild.

softwaredoug•1h ago
Nat gas, yes.

Coal is largely keeping existing plants going. I’m doubtful we’ll see anything like we saw when 50% of US power in the early 2000s was coal.

Hammerhead12321•1h ago
> The amount of electricity going into the Internet and AI is wild.

I know these things use a lot, but relative to the national usage is it a significant number? I’ve read this statement a few times but the amount is never quantified to something that makes sense. Like, how much has electricity usage increased in the last two years and can be directly attributed to data centers?

Nursie•54m ago
Bitcoin famously uses as much as a mid-sized country like the netherlands now. Wouldn't surprise me if AI use follows.
bruce511•33m ago
Um, the Netherlands is not a mid-sized country. Areawise its smaller than West Virginia. Population is around 17 million. (Contrasted to a world population of 8 billion ish.)

If bitcoin is using the same as 17 million people, that'd really not that much in relation to the overall population.

more_corn•39m ago
Yes. The amount of gpu power required to train a foundation model is staggering. Inference isn’t cheap either. There’s a massive boom in datacenter construction. If you remove investment in AI infrastructure and related investments is growth in 2025 would be .01%
BLKNSLVR•1h ago
The US is choosing to make itself increasingly redundant. Increasing speed whilst in Reverse gear whilst talking as if they're highway cruising in 5th.

It's nice to know that the rest of the world is still pushing forwards, up a steep hill, in first gear. I hope it can continue, and the hill shrinks.

zdragnar•1h ago
Not the rest of the world, but China. 80% of all panels come from there, and they want to keep it that way.

It'll lead to sone interesting and unpleasant political fights in the future, I suspect.

softwaredoug•1h ago
They also lead the world in emissions and what the US does / doesn’t do won’t be a major driver. Our carbon peaked in 2007

It’s more an issue of US ability to compete in an emerging market IMO.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183943/us-carbon-dioxide...

ciconia•1h ago
The US is today the biggest exporter of refined petrol products. It also consumes products manufactured elsewhere, including China.

China is in some ways the world's factory.

adrr•1h ago
If we exported even more manufacturing abroad we can keep dropping CO2. We could stop smelting steel, making fertilizer, and making cement in the US to drop us 15% to 20% lower. Though we’ll still lead the world in CO2 per capita though of major countries.
wakawaka28•13m ago
Why don't we just commit ritual suicide? Because that makes about as much sense as deindustrializing, and may have roughly the same outcome.
bytesandbits•1h ago
US is the only country besides China with significant solar panel manufacturing (although much much much lower). It's not that.
bruce511•26m ago
It doesn't really matter where the panels come from. Yes the manufacturer captures some of their value, but that's in the range of 20% of their overall value (and dropping).

In my country there is no govt subsidy for solar. But math doesn't lie. A typical residential system returns 16% on capital invested. Not surprisingly residential solar here is now measured in Gw.

The good news for the US is that it really doesn't matter if they fall behind. Solar can be installed so quickly that any lost impetus can be made ip in a year or two. There's basically very little lead time required between decision and implementation.

wakawaka28•17m ago
It does matter where critical infrastructure components come from. Whether you can call solar panels critical or not, China has a virtual monopoly on them due to lower production costs. The same story plays out with virtually EVERY product that we in the West need.
anothernewdude•1h ago
By the time re-industrialisation kicks in, the US will be well placed to replace China as a source of cheap labour, once living standards decrease to that level.
kragen•15m ago
What makes you think reindustrialization will kick in?
rayiner•44m ago
This is a funny accusation considering that the U.S.’s advantage over other countries has only grown over the last decade: https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2022/02/05/comparing-e...

Germany’s per-capita GDP was 76% of the U.S. in 2015 and is 61% today.

tokioyoyo•32m ago
I hear that, but then you look at China’s GDP/pp numbers, QoL improvements over the decade, and can’t really take it that seriously.
Hnrobert42•31m ago
GDP per capita is not the only measure of forward progress.
protocolture•28m ago
I think when I was very young, the US briefly offered an appealing lifestyle.

But its one of the few countries these days where I believe emigration would send me significantly backwards.

GDP isnt an interesting metric for this conversation tbh. The US can be "Winning" the monetary accumulation race while still being a terrible place in most other aspects.

Why dont you use "Adult literacy rate" as a comparison.

softwaredoug•1h ago
> “The IEA has, consistently over the last couple of decades, way underestimated how fast renewables are growing,” said Robert Brecha, a senior climate and energy adviser at Climate Analytics,

> The policy outlook for renewables in the United States is so bleak that the IEA lowered the country’s renewable capacity growth expectations by 50 percent compared to last year’s projections.

Maybe room for optimism they are underestimating what non govt supported solar growth would be in the US?

hshdhdhehd•1h ago
Capitalism aligns with being green, leaving right wing narrative-driven policy in a very confused state.
geraneum•1h ago
Apart from the obvious, another aspect of renewables that I hope will make the world a better place is the potential to be fucking free from oil and gas. Imagine the geopolitical impact of that. But, here’s a lesson from WW2. Unless we can pack the energy produced by renewables into tanks, jets, aircraft carriers and such effectively (cost, scale, etc.) nothing is gonna get meaningfully better there.
bawolff•36m ago
Its probably also going to trigger a bunch of wars in the short term.

Wars tend to happen when power dynamics change. Either someone is on the rise and thinks they can get more or someone is on the decline and can no longer hold on to what they used to have. I think the middle east is going to be a blood bath once the oil stops making bank. But its not just them, when oil goes away it changes the power dynamics across the world.

grues-dinner•20m ago
Theoretically, with enough cheap renewable energy, synthetic hydrocarbons could fuel the war machine.

It would need possibly big, vulnerable plants to refine, but so does jet fuel and diesel now.

Adding that much electrical capacity is a civilisational task, but an electrical "JP-8 at home" plant in theory is a good security asset, especially for countries with poor oil supply.

ggm•57m ago
Winning here, means "are able to supply power at a price, which makes their backers money without having to invest in mines and wells"

If you hold assets which embody mines and wells, you are concerned at this point you're going to have a stranded asset. Strategically, you need the market to endure and so decisions of short term pain like dropping pricing, become important so you can stop people fleeing to other forms of energy. But, if the pricing has to drop below your cost of extraction and processing, there's a limit to how far you can go. Well, that point, for some forms of energy, was reached some time ago.

I think when the Saudi Arabian government started seriously diversifying their economy, it was a pretty strong signal.

Even in my home state (Queensland, Australia: Liberal/National right wing government, backed by coal and mining interests) the commercial realities of owning coal fired power stations has reared it's head, and the state government is making market interventions to prop up coal. It also fixes pricing decisions in state to return a significant profit to the state government with that coal price backed energy supply, which I believe is not dissimilar to Ontario. (happy to be corrected) -People are voting with their feed for rooftop domestic solar and batteries, and the pricing spiral continues.

They could do what the other (Labor) states are doing and get with renewables. They just cancelled pumped hydro, wind and solar deployments on pretty thin logic, but they can't stop the private sector and the move there is pretty clear: It's just cheaper as a path to profit, to sell electricity based on renewables right now. If you don't own a giant hole in the ground of coal generation, you get your money back faster building anything else BUT coal fired power now.

BLKNSLVR•48m ago
Ironically "The Sunshine State".
ggm•37m ago
When Labor flipped the licence plate tagline to "the smart state" in 2001 a lot of people thought it was a poor attempt at humour. Apparently the "the sunshine state" was brought back by popular acclaim, but I can't say I felt consulted or cared.
shmerl•51m ago
Luddites can't stop progress. But they'll try to slow it down.
AlexandrB•50m ago
Here's a counterpoint: https://brawlstreetjournal.substack.com/p/dead-man-walking

> According to a recent study by the German Chamber of Commerce and Industry, annual investment in the energy, industry, building, and transport sectors would have to more than double if current energy policies were to continue: from an average of around €82 billion between 2020 and 2024 to somewhere between €113 billion to €316 billion in 2035. Early transition models had projected a fraction of that.

We'll see, but I don't know what to believe anymore. In particular, Germany's deindustrialization is unmistakeable and expensive energy may be the culprit.

rayiner•40m ago
Germany has dropped from 76% of US GDP per capita in 2015 to only 61% today.

If AI turns out to be economically valuable the EU fixation on non-nuclear renewables may have turned out to be a very costly error.

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