These workers wouldn't be allowed to do that role in-person, why are they allowed to do it remotely?
Hardly any takers for those positions.
Isn't "competing for local resources" just a fig leaf for "I don't want to lose my job to some foreigner"? That's a far better theory because it explains both anti-immigration sentiment as well as anti-globalization/offshoring sentiment.
Similarly, there's a growing resentment in Japan towards real estate bros, who buy several properties just to rent them out.
Why is that so much different than them controlling a robot remotely?
If you want people to be able to immigrate into your country and work thats fine; just make it the law!
Plenty of consequences from people being physically present there.
You have to clear customs, account for smuggling, human trafficking, epidemiological risks, possibility of people fleeing or becoming stranded in the destination country for whatever reason.
Yes. And I hope that call centers were forced to be in the same country that the recipients of the call. If it is not worth the cost, then they should not be doing the call.
They are doing the work elsewhere, and it would be suicidal for any economy to mandate only using domestic contractors to do all work. (Also, just a side note, even though logically irrelevant: it's not at all the case that these foreigner+robot combos are taking local jobs; I live in Tokyo and have seen that the convenience stores are desperately seeking staff, even 1 day a week, and paying more for it... they just can't find enough (yes, partly because immigration is pretty difficult here).)
IIUC, typically you don't hire foreign individuals for "your company". "your company" sets up a subsidiary in that foreign country and they work "locally" for the foreign subsidiary. And so the difference is that your local company would _import_ the work products from that foreign company and pay any relevant tariffs (see Nintendo of America paying tariffs from Nintendo Switch 2s produced by Nintendo of Japan). Now, IIUC the tariffs for digital goods are typically 0% so it's pretty simple to import them but you're still following a law allowing for the importation of a digital good.
The main reason work visas are required is not to prevent foreigners from doing work, it's to restrict and control their ability to live in the country, send their kids to school, receive medical care or whatever other social services might be available to residents, or do whatever kind of activity that the government doesn't want people to do and believes foreigners might do (discussing Tiananmen Square, disparaging Charlie Cook, advocating for gay rights, petty crime — whatever it is).
Hiring a foreign company, or foreign contractor, to perform work in their own country is almost always allowed. This is fundamentally not any different than a company having people answer customer phone calls in a call center in Bangalore.
Sometimes I wonder, am I commit immigration fraud for buy Fuji apple from China? I have not get work visa for apple picker man. Maybe a crime.
I will confess ICE. We need to sort this out. We’re in a crisis.
Japan does feel a bit behind, only this summer have I just noticed the Amazon go equilivant in Tokyo. It very much felt like something that would’ve happened in Japan first then Seattle.
Ultimately there’s no social barriers or even awareness that human labor is going to increasingly be used as training for robotic labor.
Harriet Tubman had every handicap and still became an absolute legend in abolition. Anyone is capable.
I blame anyone capable but scared into compliance or shutting down.
Sometimes it is about life or death and risking death is worth it for freedom.
Very few people in my experience are willing to take mortal risk and they remain stuck where they are
I suspect that will be a growth sector for jobs (though likely oversea jobs like we already did with support centers). Robo Taxi unsure what to do? human remotes in and drives it till automation picks up. Service bot stuck in a loop? human to the rescue.
Probably eventually see merging like we did with tech support. instead of dedicated support a single center where people basically "pick up a call" to any number of automated things and look in the book to see what to do.
pjmlp•3mo ago
I never use self-checkouts unless forced otherwise, as I rather not contribute to the capitalistic end goal to get rid of all employees other than those doing robot maintenance.
gruez•3mo ago
What's the alternative? Having people do menial jobs that can otherwise be automated? What's the difference between that and paying people to dig ditches and fill them back in again, or banning people from filling their own cars so we can keep teenagers employed as gas station attendants?
pjmlp•3mo ago
pcthrowaway•3mo ago
People don't "need" jobs, they need food, shelter, clothing, health care, and community. Jobs are just how those unfortunate enough not to be born into wealth finance those things, and occasionally some luxuries.
A good society should raise the standard of living for everyone when technological advances make things more efficient.
pjmlp•3mo ago
pcthrowaway•3mo ago
The problem is that under capitalism, the people get replaced by "Thing-doer 3000" bots which are owned by other large companies; the people don't benefit, and ultimately it even changes the economy when people have less work due to being replaced.
People working isn't needed for a "working economy"; things need to get done, to be sure, and right now people are needed to do those things, but that may not always be the case. Making pointless work for people to do is about as reasonable as replacing taxi cabs with rickshaw drivers, and power-tools with manual tools "just because"
pjmlp•3mo ago
The utopian vision that state sponsors citzen lives that are free to leisure themselves is science fiction.
Additionally, bored humans usually find ways to entertain themselves that aren't always for the good of society.
carlosjobim•3mo ago
Owners of supermarket have calculated that the increase in theft is off-set by the savings of not paying wages to cashiers. But those losses have to be paid by somebody, and that somebody is of course the customers who don't steal goods.
I'd rather not be the person who has to pay extra so that another person can steal. That's an undignified existence, and hence why I also boycott self-checkouts. I don't care what "rationalists" say.
Also, a store with a lot of self-checkout lanes and few cashiers will attract thieves and repel honest customers who want good service. The result is a worse store in every way, until it folds and closes - as owners have probably planned for a few years.
gruez•3mo ago
>I'd rather not be the person who has to pay extra so that another person can steal.
This doesn't make any sense. If the whole premise is that "the increase in theft is off-set by the savings of not paying wages to cashiers", then doesn't that imply that not having self-checkout is going to be more expensive than you overall? After all, regardless of whether the cost is losses from theft or cashier salaries, the customer has to pay for it at the end. Are you arguing that you want to pay more, because the extra money will go to a cashier than a thief?
carlosjobim•3mo ago
Yes, certainly it does! I'd rather that my money goes to pay salaries for cashiers, than pay for the goods that thieves steal. The first option is sustainable, honest, and good for the community. The second option breeds crime and decay.
I'm not an atomized production-consumption unit, I'm a human being, and so are the cashiers. Plus that service is friendlier and faster with cashiers. We're not supposed to be psychotically seek efficiency and cost-savings in every nook and cranny like some of these store owners.
slicktux•3mo ago
netdevphoenix•3mo ago
variadix•3mo ago
netdevphoenix•3mo ago
Larrikin•3mo ago
Self check out of more than a few items at the grocery store will always suck and be slower than someone who has trained to scan items quickly and has memorized the produce codes.
I never use self check out because I don't work at the grocery store and would rather just wait on my phone than take an active role in an activity I have no interest in ever becoming good at while giving the company more money over all for the shittier experience. I'm also not afraid of the cashier asking me how my day is going.
gruez•3mo ago
That sounds suspiciously close to "capitalistic end goal to get rid of all employees other than those doing robot maintenance" that gp was deriding?
renewiltord•3mo ago