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South Korea's fishermen keep dying. Is climate change to blame?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg924nrgd3o
1•blondie9x•3m ago•0 comments

Some Notes on Nix Flakes

https://jvns.ca/blog/2023/11/11/notes-on-nix-flakes/
1•n3t•4m ago•1 comments

Treasure Trove of Shipwrecks Along China's Coast

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/treasure-trove-of-shipwrecks-along-chinas-coast-reveals-ho...
1•Brajeshwar•9m ago•0 comments

Astronomers discover skyscraper-size asteroid hidden in sun's glare

https://www.livescience.com/space/asteroids/astronomers-discover-skyscraper-size-asteroid-hidden-...
1•Brajeshwar•10m ago•0 comments

AI is changing our understanding of earthquakes

https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/physical-world/2025/ai-is-changing-understanding-of-...
1•Brajeshwar•10m ago•0 comments

Interest Survey: Copilot for Exchange Server (On-Premises)

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/exchange/interest-survey-copilot-for-exchange-server-on-...
1•asimops•13m ago•0 comments

If AI "slop" scares you, your PR reviews are broken

https://www.pcloadletter.dev/blog/pr-review-ai-slop/
1•ronbenton•18m ago•0 comments

Detection firm finds 82% of herbal remedy books on Amazon 'likely written' by AI

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/oct/22/detection-firm-finds-82-of-herbal-remedy-books-on-a...
2•pogue•19m ago•1 comments

Paternal exercise confers endurance to offspring through sperm microRNAs

https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(25)00388-2
3•PaulHoule•20m ago•0 comments

Blind User's Experience with Smart Glasses

https://abilitymagazine.com/meta-ray-bans-blind-users-experience-with-smart-glasses/
2•geox•22m ago•0 comments

Alaska Airlines, experiencing an IT outage, issues a ground stop

https://twitter.com/AlaskaAirNews/status/1981501224605405238
2•gnabgib•24m ago•1 comments

Unicode Footguns in Python

https://pythonkoans.substack.com/p/koan-15-the-invisible-ink
1•meander_water•24m ago•0 comments

Boa release v0.21 – a new release of Boa, a JavaScript engine written in Rust

https://boajs.dev/blog/2025/10/22/boa-release-21
1•birdculture•27m ago•0 comments

First Verifiable AI Architecture Analysis – Zero Source Files Read

https://github.com/mirzahusadzic/cogx
1•mirza_husadzic•28m ago•1 comments

Finding a Successor to the FHS

https://lwn.net/Articles/1032947/
2•baobun•29m ago•0 comments

Alaska Airlines issues temporary ground stop

https://mynorthwest.com/chokepoints/alaska-airlines-3/4146461
1•tobinfekkes•30m ago•0 comments

Against the Machine: On the Unmaking of Humanity – Paul Kingsnorth

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2025/10/the-prophecies-of-paul-kingsnorth
1•pseudolus•31m ago•0 comments

MAINdial – Find any landline instantly with GPS/AI

https://dial-wise-60854cc8.base44.app/
1•Conceiver•33m ago•0 comments

Two federal judges say use of AI led to errors in US court rulings

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/two-federal-judges-say-use-ai-led-errors-in-us-court-rul...
2•bbzjk7•34m ago•0 comments

Is Terminal Lucidity Real?

https://preservinghope.substack.com/p/is-terminal-lucidity-real
2•paulpauper•35m ago•0 comments

The System Skill Pattern

https://www.shruggingface.com/blog/the-system-skill-pattern
3•mercat•45m ago•1 comments

Counter-Strike's player economy is in a multi-billion dollar freefall

https://www.polygon.com/counter-strike-cs-player-economy-multi-billion-dollar-freefall/
17•perihelions•51m ago•1 comments

Emacs: Write to Minibuffer

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36118899/inserting-text-into-an-active-minibuffer
3•gfalcao•54m ago•0 comments

Mario Creator Shigeru Miyamoto Might Be Right About the Future of Gaming

https://comicbook.com/gaming/feature/shigeru-miyamoto-gaming-future/
3•mikhael•55m ago•0 comments

Antidepressants: Physical side-effects vary depending on the drug type

https://theconversation.com/antidepressants-physical-side-effects-vary-depending-on-the-drug-type...
1•gmays•58m ago•0 comments

American e-waste is causing a 'hidden tsunami' in Southeast Asia, report says

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/asia/american-e-waste-causing-hidden-tsunami-southeast-asia-report-...
2•clumsysmurf•1h ago•1 comments

AI Sidebar Spoofing Puts ChatGPT Atlas, Perplexity Comet, Other Browsers at Risk

https://www.securityweek.com/ai-sidebar-spoofing-puts-chatgpt-atlas-perplexity-comet-and-other-br...
3•botanicals6•1h ago•0 comments

HekateForge Construct 8/8 entropy

https://hekateforge.com/
1•Compulytics•1h ago•0 comments

Israeli Arab Startup Haat Solves Big Food Delivery Problems

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-10-21/israeli-arab-startup-haat-solves-big-food-deli...
2•alephnerd•1h ago•0 comments

Psi+ 1.5.2125.0 Installer Has Been Released – Qt Jabber/XMPP Omemo/OTR E2EE

https://sourceforge.net/projects/psiplus/files/Windows/Personal-Builds/KukuRuzo/
2•neustradamus•1h ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

https://9to5mac.com/2025/10/23/apple-loses-uk-app-store-monopoly-case-penalty-might-near-2-billion/
162•thelastgallon•3h ago

Comments

citizenpaul•2h ago
So like 12 days profit for them if it pans out? I'm sure they will learn their lesson.
dmix•2h ago
apparently people will make this same comment every single time whether it's a $2M fine or a $2B fine
stavros•1h ago
That's why you head them off with $3Q fines.
CamperBob2•1h ago
(Shrug) Illegal with a fine is legal for a price. Apple can easily afford the price.
ryandrake•1h ago
Why even have fines when they amount to an insignificant cost of doing business? What is the purpose? If the purpose is to deter companies from doing some thing, then a fine that equals a tiny number of days revenue is not providing any kind of deterrence.
jahewson•39m ago
Isn’t this a counter factual that can’t be proved? How do you know it won’t deter other companies?
bobro•1h ago
Looks like their net profit globally is like $90-100B per year. If you think of the share of profit that's coming just from the UK, this is probably very sizeable as a penalty.
abtinf•2h ago
In English law, is there a clearly defined, well understood, written standard of “fair”?
ocdtrekkie•2h ago
I don't know, but when every single business on the planet has to pay you 30% for access to mobile device users, it definitely isn't.
jjtheblunt•1h ago
How do web pages accessed from (for example) Safari cost the publisher 30% of a subscription fee, when a subscription might be established off mobile first?
bigyabai•1h ago
How are web pages analogous to installing mobile software, in this particular example?
raincole•1h ago
In every single aspect of "business on the planet enabling access to mobile device users".
bigyabai•1h ago
No? Websites are a subset of the software market, not the other way around. Apple can absolutely monopolize software distribution while providing a web browser.
JimDabell•1h ago
> when every single business on the planet has to pay you 30% for access to mobile device users

That doesn’t describe Apple’s situation though. Most businesses don’t distribute software at all; those that do mostly don’t need to distribute native iOS apps; those that do mostly don’t need to pay App Store fees; those that do mostly have to pay 15%. It’s only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction that need to pay 30%.

bigyabai•1h ago
All those percentages are arbitrary, none of them are set through natural competition.

Good on the UK for not backing down. 15% or 150%, Apple should not be exempted from participating in a true market economy.

JimDabell•1h ago
What are you referring to when you say “all those percentages”? I only mention two; 15% and 30%. 30% wasn’t arbitrary; it was in line with what other platform providers like Nintendo and Sony were charging at the time. If you’re referring to the multiple fractions of fractions, then obviously a business that has nothing to do with software isn’t being coerced by Apple.
giobox•1h ago
> those that do mostly have to pay 15%

This case only concerns Apple's App Store fees before 2020; it was a blanket 30% charge for paid apps until they introduced those changes following the whole Epic Games legal saga etc.

Apple are not paying a penalty for anything after 2020 when the new rules allowing those with lower turnover to pay 15% came into effect etc.

> It’s only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction that need to pay 30%

During the first 12 years of the App Store, everyone paid 30%.

JimDabell•22m ago
> During the first 12 years of the App Store, everyone paid 30%.

This is still not correct. The original claim was “every single business on the planet”. That’s ridiculously overstated.

Even if you massively narrow the scope to only businesses that have iOS apps that make money directly through the app, it’s still not true. The 30% specifically applies to buying digital goods and services through iOS apps.

Take Uber, for instance. They make vast amounts of money through their iOS app. They do not have to pay Apple 30%, or 15%, or anything beyond the basic $99/yr developer account fee. They absolutely do not have to pay 30% for access to the platform.

tehjoker•2h ago
interesting I suspect the UK uses the same Regan Era definition of monopolistic practice as the US, meaning monopoly is fine so long as prices seen by consumers are low (or rather not provably raised)
dmix•1h ago
The UK adopted the EU antitrust model in the 1990s and still kept it after Brexit. So it's has a lot more stuff about 'fairness' and controlling markets, it's not just about prices or monopolies abusing their market position or blocking mega mergers. At least on paper...
ur-whale•2h ago
The financial penalty is peanuts for AAPL.

More interesting would be if they'd be forced to allow other app stores.

ocdtrekkie•1h ago
I think both third party app stores (without aggressive scare screens) and third party payments will be globally available on both platforms in the next few years. But it will take some time for enough piecemeal jurisdictions to require it for it to become burdensome for the companies to have different options in different regulatory regimes, and to make it no longer worth blocking in jurisdictions which haven't ruled against them yet.
stavros•1h ago
Yeah but Apple always required signing, and Google is moving to that too, so they can simply charge you an exorbitant amount to get your app signed, moving the money maker from the store to the dev environment.
ocdtrekkie•1h ago
Now that the regulators are actually saying this is a problem I suspect these schemes will be addressed much faster. I'm pretty stunned Google announced that just after losing the case, because it's so remarkably stupid. Judges do not like being screwed with.
stavros•1h ago
I really hope so, because I was hoping Apple would be forced to be more open, and was surprised that, instead, Google got more closed.
joomla199•48m ago
The police does not like being screwed with either. These aren’t good things. People with significant authority perform a duty and ought to act independently of their personal feeling.
1oooqooq•45m ago
https://github.com/deckerst/aves/issues/1802

and google is surreptitiously flagging several of the top alternatives to their spyware bloatware on android, as a prelude to the change.

this is clearly an action that can be easily attributed to incompetence, but is a thinly veiled way to ensure a flood of verified open source joining early on the ransom for signing whitelist.

awillen•1h ago
"The CAT said in its ruling that developers were overcharged by the difference between a 17.5% commission for app purchases and the commission Apple charged, which Kent's lawyers said was usually 30%."

Where does the 17.5% come from? I can't find it here or in the link Reuters article. Is that just the number that the tribunal decided was fair? If so I'd love to read the analysis of how they got there.

mikeiz404•1h ago
I haven't dug through the linked documents but it's probably in here some where... https://www.catribunal.org.uk/judgments/14037721-dr-rachael-...
bmandale•32m ago
"""

919. The comparators available to us (the Epic Games Store, the Microsoft Store and Steam’s lower headline rate) suggest that the competitive rate of commission would be in the range of 12 to 20%. We do think it is reasonable to make some adjustment to that range to accommodate the points made by Apple about its premium brand, the quality of its offering and its established market position. However, we do not think those would be sufficient to displace the upper end of the range and are likely to operate mainly at the lower end, where the offerings are arguably less attractive to users for those reasons.

920. Applying again an approach of “informed guesswork”, on the basis of the evidence before us, we find that the likely range of Apple’s Commission for iOS app distribution services in the counterfactual is between 15% and 20%. For the purposes of quantifying the overcharge (for both the exclusionary abuses and the excessive and unfair pricing abuse) we will use the mid-point of that range, which is 17.5%.

crims0n•1h ago
Honest question, what do people think is a fair percentage? The platform development, app hosting, payment processing, and quality control is surely worth something.
thunky•1h ago
5% tops.
bigyabai•1h ago
Whatever Apple needs in order to compete with third-party distributors. They can set it to a 105% tax for all I care, just let me use third-party alternatives.
kelthuzad•1h ago
That's what the market will determine once Apple is forced to compete.
bitpush•1h ago
This question is valid only if Apple lets apps host their own apps, bring their own payment system.

Apple bans all such activities, has held the entire app ecosystem and seeks rent. If they think their offering is superior, then they should be OK competing. The fact that they have not opened it up says that they are happy to overcharge.

Remember, competition is always good. Let Stripe and Apple duke it out on payment processing, and let the best one win.

Let games me hosted both on Epic Store and App Store, and let users decide where to download it from.

That will be fair.

thewebguyd•1h ago
> Apple lets apps host their own apps, bring their own payment system.

And also not require those apps to be also approved by Apple, which they are trying to do with AltStore and the DMA.

Users should be able to go to a dev's website, pay them directly, and download the ipa and install it with a click from the website. Having to go through any kind of "app store" at all should be optional.

crims0n•1h ago
So in this scenario would Epic then need to develop and maintain their own toolchain and SDK for their app store? The development tools and education are also worth something, Epic shouldn’t get that for free.
lukeschlather•1h ago
Epic has a toolchain and SDK for their own app store. So does Valve, and many other competitors, and Apple won't let them install their toolchain on iOS.
jen729w•1h ago
Dystopian story plot:

Apple completely opens up the iOS platform. Do whatever you like.

Also, an XCode license is now $20,000/year. Don’t like it? Build your own.

bitpush•1h ago
> Also, an XCode license is now $20,000/year. Don’t like it? Build your own.

And people will. That's how competition works. If someone thinks they can make a profit by offering a) better product b) same product at a cheaper price, you'll see investment.

VCs will be pouring money to capture that market.

surgical_fire•1h ago
> And people will.

And it will likely be much better too.

rescbr•1h ago
That would be the best outcome!

We would be back to the real days of computing.

Aloisius•46m ago
Why stop at xcode?

Add a licensing fee for UIKit, Core Data, Core Text, Core Audio, Core Graphics, Metal, Network, SwiftUI, Quartz and all the other libraries apps use constantly.

Heck, why not for the OS itself? If you don't want to pay, they could conceivably dump you into an isolated VM and force you to write your own OS and userspace device drivers.

Devasta•1h ago
Hardly always good. The mobile app ecosystem on both iOS and Android is a morass of freemium games and ad slop, because the market has determined that hooking one whale is more important than creating a quality product.

The competition will find the most profitable process, not the one that serves customers best necessarily.

The biggest change the iPhone users are going to see an increase in spyware. They'll also notice in a few years a bunch of websites go Chrome only.

bdangubic•1h ago
50-75%
chris_wot•1h ago
Well, the market will decide I guess. If this is the case, then competitors won't be an issue. If not, then Apple's goose is cooked.
raincole•1h ago
The honest answer is that Apple shouldn't own iOS and its main app store at the same time. But there is not legal / regulation framework to prevent that.

Case in point: Steam is taking 30% too. But you've heard much less fuss over it, right? Why? Is it because of players' cult-like behavior around Steam? (probably partially) But more importantly it's because Valve doesn't own Windows and Steam Deck is a far smaller fry.

npinsker•1h ago
Steam's cut decreases to 20% after a certain amount of money. Also Steam does a lot more to earn their cut than any other platform, by far -- for example, they do a lot of promotion for you, both algorithmic and through things like Daily Deals, for free, whereas on iOS it is very difficult for ad spend to not be a significant part of your budget. The rule of thumb I've heard is, for every organic sale you make, Steam's algorithm will get you one more sale. So their cut feels quite worth it.

A closer example is game consoles, whose associated stores also take 30%, and nobody seems to complain about.

raincole•1h ago
> for every organic sale you make, Steam's algorithm will get you one more sale

I'm not sure what you mean. Every game dev now refers what Steam algorithm gives you "organic sale."

npinsker•33m ago
Maybe my wording wasn't good -- I meant a sale driven primarily through a channel other than Steam (streamer, Reddit, ads, friend recommendation).

It's difficult for me to really trust this stat though because purchasing decisions are complicated.

bsimpson•1h ago
You can also mod your Steam Deck to your heart's content. There's a plugin called Junk Store that will let you use other stores.
Liftyee•1h ago
People are understandably much more amenable to Valve because the company as a whole behaves in a much more cooperative and pro-consumer way... e.g. Steam deck repair options, furthering Linux gaming, and Gaben's general philosophy.

Cult-like or not, I find it reasonable to support companies that do things which you agree with. Valve's non-adversarial approach to business (as opposed to many rent-seeking corps these days) probably helps that perception.

abdullahkhalids•33m ago
Steam sells games, which is mostly a "want" good. App Store has apps that have large scale economic and political implications - banking apps, messaging apps, etc. So it is understandable that people/governments care a lot more about reigning in the App Store than the Steam store.
someotherperson•1h ago
How much of a fee do you think you should pay to install applications on your computer? The same amount as that.

Or provide alternative ways to install software.

This is a problem of their own creation.

chongli•1h ago
As soon as you open the door to side-loading, you'll have scammers and data-siphoners force all their users to side-load so that they can completely bypass Apple's privacy controls and security features. The entire iOS ecosystem is built on the App Store review process as a gatekeeper for entitlements and the capabilities they grant (through API access).

How do you solve that problem for side-loaded apps?

monkmartinez•1h ago
Does Apple have an explicit guarantee that apps can not scam or data siphon from an iPhone or iPad app?
chongli•1h ago
Yes, assuming that iOS's entitlement security has not been broken.
Deathmax•1h ago
As if the App Store had any sort of those guarantees. I know of people have been scammed via WebView wrappers that purported to be some benign app to pass app store review, which were then pointed at fake exchange websites afterwards. GitLab which was hosting their C&C mechanism took action faster than Apple or Google did to take down multiple scam apps across multiple different developer identities, but the scammers spun up new apps the next day.
chongli•1h ago
WebView wrappers don't have any more ability to siphon data out of the phone than any other app. Scammers can always scam users if they can trick them into entering data into a website. There's nothing anyone can do about that (besides blocking web access).
dreamcompiler•32m ago
How is it that I can load MacOS apps from anywhere, and yet they don't "completely bypass Apple's privacy controls and security features"?
anonymous908213•29m ago
Sideloading, AKA "installing software on your device", is something PCs have been handling just fine for decades. It's fine to warn the user when they're going off the beaten trail, but do not lock them in a cage to prevent them from doing so.

If they ignore the warnings and get scammed because they are unable to identify reputable software from disreputable software, they learn a life lesson. Life goes on. There should be no societal expectation that everyone is prevented from ever taking an action that could bring themselves harm, by preventing them from taking actions at all.

chongli•22m ago
There are entire classes of people who have simply given up on PCs and only use a phone, so I would call that substantial evidence that PCs have NOT "been handling [it] just fine." For these folks, PCs are a total failure; a dead end. A danger zone to be avoided at all costs.
anonymous908213•17m ago
If you have a citation that droves of people are abandoning PCs for phones specifically because PCs allow them to install software of their choice, rather than other reasons like the convenience of a computer that fits in their hand, I'd be interested in seeing it. Because that sounds like an absolutely outrageous claim to be asserting as a fact to me.
flomo•3m ago
There was some point around 15 years ago when it was nearly impossible to download and install Windows software without getting some extra adware and etc. This was true even for 'legit' vendors like Sun and Adobe. (Plus Google would offer up wrapped installers for Firefox, OpenOffice, etc.) Honestly if you thought "things were fine", you were ignoring the Linux/Mac people laughing about it.
doctorpangloss•1h ago
Your list is missing, "concentrating rich payers into one channel," which is why developers pay 30%, even if they don't like it.
gpm•1h ago
As long as Apple requires they make use of those services for me to install software on the computer I bought, and they prevent others from producing equivalent competing devices via patents (i.e. government granted monopolies), zero.

It's not that it's not worth something, it's that they're abusing their patents and monopoly to extract further compensation after I already bought the device.

cedws•1h ago
You had the choice to buy another phone.
gpm•1h ago
I did not have a choice to buy another equivalent phone because patents legally forbid other companies from producing equivalent phones.

If Apple wants to take that defence, they should be required to have abandoned every patent they own on iPhones prior to my purchase of the device.

cedws•1h ago
Equivalent in what way? A Samsung, a Xiaomi, a Google phone have all of the necessary capabilities to live a modern life.
gpm•1h ago
Equivalent in the way of having the numerous features small and large that Apple has patents on. Whether that's being a rectangle with rounded corners (yes they have a patent on that, or at least did, and successfully defended it in court. Not sure what's happened in the meantime), or whatever random patents Apple has on making blood oxygen sensor technology just that little bit better.

If Apple believes their portfolio of patents protecting the iPhone is worthless, they should abandon them. That they haven't precludes the argument that they are.

cedws•1h ago
It sounds like your problem is with the patent system then. The point of patents is to grant exclusive rights to a technology in exchange for sharing information.
gpm•1h ago
I'm not taking any issue with patents existing here. I'm taking issue with anti-competitive behavior that Apple is executing on top of the patent system. If Apple merely wanted to use their monopoly on features of devices to sell devices with those features I would have no issue. My issue is only when they leverage that monopoly to get a monopoly on the distribution of software to those devices and then leverages their monopoly on the distribution of software to those devices to extract fees for doing so.

Edit: I don't, for instance, have issues with how they use patents with macbooks. There they don't abuse their monopoly on certain hardware features to get and extract money from a secondary monopoly on software.

dialup_sounds•50m ago
You seem to be confusing Masimo's patent infringement case against Apple over Apple Watch with the notion that Apple has some kind of a patented blood oxygen sensor in the iPhone.

I don't think that supports your case that Apple's patent keeps other phones from being equivalent given that the sensor isn't in the iPhone and it's not even Apple's patent.

For what it's worth, I'm typing this on a Pixel which is also a rounded rectangle, so I'm skeptical that patent is really holding other phones back, either

gpm•44m ago
You're typing that on a Pixel with a bump sticking out the back, which would mean it doesn't violate the design patent.

I wasn't specifically thinking of that case, though it's likely why my mind chose that sensor as an example. Apple has patents on blood oxygen sensors, of course, because Apple has patents on basically everything they do. Here's a recent example that I just picked off of Google https://patents.google.com/patent/AU2024216430B2/en?q=(Oxyge...

bitpush•1h ago
When you plug in a non-Apple USB cable to charge your iPhone, or use a third-party phone case, or use Anker power bank .. do you wish you had none of these choices, but only use whatever Apple branded cables, and phonecase and power banks existed?

If you want to buy Apple cables because you think it is better, sure - that's great. But preventing ugreen cables from working makes no sense.

You shouldnt say 'buy a different phone' if you want to use ugreen cables.

If you're a consumer, you should be on the side of more choice and more competition. If you're a Apple/Apple employee, you should 100% say what you just did :)

cedws•1h ago
Being on the side of the consumer means being on the side of the free market. If you don’t like the charging options of an iPhone, don’t buy an iPhone. If you don’t like the OS of a Pixel, don’t buy a Pixel. If the consumer is choosy and doesn’t like the options available then there is a market opportunity for new entrants.
kadoban•1h ago
> If the consumer is choosy and doesn’t like the options available then there is a market opportunity for new entrants.

And if new entrants can't enter the market because the existing monopolies make it impractical, then what?

cedws•1h ago
This is the actual problem to be solved. The bureaucracy of forcing the hand of tech companies every time consumers scream loud enough is a shitty solution.
kelthuzad•57m ago
And that is exactly the problem that is being solved. It's not about "consumers screaming", but companies, consumers and governments realizing that anti-competitive behavior is harming everybody except the gatekeeper. The solution is competition. Since Apple is such a great and innovative company, they surely won't be afraid of competing on merit.
cedws•49m ago
It just props up the monopoly. Appeased consumers have no reason to buy other products. There is no financial motive for Apple to do good because they can do bad until government forces their hand, and they have no reason to fear competition. It’s an admission we’re all at the mercy of Apple until daddy government steps in.
kelthuzad•38m ago
The fact that even a whiff of potential competition incentivized Apple to half their tax for specific cases shows that anti-trust regulation works and that it's the only thing that will ever force a gatekeeper to reconsider their anti-competitive business practices.

>It’s an admission we’re all at the mercy of Apple until daddy government steps in.

That has always been the case when market participants become too dominant e.g.

United States v. Paramount Pictures (1948)

United States v. AT&T (1984)

United States v. Microsoft (2001)

Anti-trust regulation would have dealt with Apple, Google and co by now if the lobbying weren't so out of control compared to previous times.

fhennig•1h ago
I don't like any of the options but still need a phone, now what?
xmprt•58m ago
That's pretty unfortunately but if you articulate some of your issues with the options, I'm sure I can find an Android option for you that works. Despite Google's attempts, Android is still quite open and many phones allow you to do whatever you want with them.

Or if you only want to use iPhones then it seems like the downsides of the locked down app store aren't worth switching in which case it seems like you've already made your choice.

celsoazevedo•19m ago
Android itself is fine, but in most of the world you need Android with Google services, otherwise banking apps, contactless payments, some games, etc, don't run.

The app sideloading changes they're about to introduce[0]? Affects their Pixels, Samsungs, OnePlus, Sony, etc, old and new. It can't be disabled. The work around is to use ADB to install apks.

So while you have more choice of hardware, Android skins with more or less features, different long term support, and pricing, in practice you're stuck with what Google wants. Your options are Apple or Google.

---

[0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/08/google-will-block-si...

Ylpertnodi•44m ago
>I don't like any of the options but still need a phone, now what?

I've always used this method: work out what are the most benefits, with the fewest annoying 'features', between various manufacturers that have items within your budget, and choose something. In my country we call it 'shopping'.

timpieces•1h ago
This is true of an idealized perfect free market with perfectly rational consumers, but not so much in the real world. The simple fact that profits on phones haven't been competed to zero is enough to show it's not a perfect free market. I don't think the average consumer spends much time considering the long-term health of the app ecosystem when they purchase a phone. Maybe the wisdom of the crowds is correct here and it's truly not important or beneficial, but to me it seems more likely that it's outside the bounded rationality of most consumers. Markets have blind-spots and they tend to be short sighted.
foolswisdom•54m ago
The nature of a free market is that someone wins the competition, and the winner is then happy to figure out ways to prevent anyone from competing at all (this kind of action doesn't require a complete winner either, but I'm focusing on a thought experiment here).

Ergo, if you care about maintaining a free market, then you care about limiting what kind of moves you can make in the free market, in order to preserve a free market. A truly free market with no rules has an end state where it is not a free market, more like a much more sophisticated version of the nobles of the land owning everything. So we declare many activities that make it difficult for others to compete that are not simply about manking a better product, "anti-competitive" and illegal.

mvdtnz•43m ago
> Being on the side of the consumer means being on the side of the free market.

What makes you think the "free market" always produces the best outcome for consumers?

echelon•29m ago
> Being on the side of the consumer means being on the side of the free market.

An unregulated market leads to monopoly and anti-competitive practices.

Capitalism is one of the best models we've discovered, but its markets must be appropriately regulated.

Capitalism should be difficult. An eternal treadmill. You shouldn't be able to wedge yourself into a market as a quarter-century long hegemon.

You shouldn't be able to capture the key touch point of all consumers to their digital life and then tax it for eternity. It's putting incredible strain on innovation and all other market participants.

Companies should die and be replaced by younger startups regularly. It's a renewing forest fire that de-ossifies technology.

Rewarding startups puts the capital rewards in the hands of innovation capital rather than large institutions. Large companies do everything they can to minimize labor costs. Venture funds are even hurting in that the monopolies put a cap on the number of startups that can reach decacorn or centacorn status.

And before I field any complaints that consumers don't care about this - most consumers are laypeople and do not understand what is happening to them. They can't articulate these points. This is why we require regulators to police the system.

stevage•12m ago
>Being on the side of the consumer means being on the side of the free market.

You're saying, companies should be able to do whatever they want, even if it's bad for the consumer. How can you describe that position as "being on the side of the consumer"?

aydyn•23m ago
What if im on the consumer's side but I dont like britbongs
makeitdouble•1h ago
And Apple now have the choice to change their business practices.
furyofantares•52m ago
We also have the choice to make different laws.
fruitworks•42m ago
not really. I have two options: android or ios. And android is following ios lockstep with practices like the recent changes to play integrity.
echelon•32m ago
There are two phones on the market. Android and iPhone.

The Government needs to break up this duopoly.

Mobile should have hundreds of choices, three or four OS options, and free web-based installs without a gatekeeper or taxation.

Mobile providers shouldn't be able tyrannically set defaults for search, payments, or anything else either.

itake•23m ago
Mobile apps mobile app fraud empties life savings accounts. I agree there should be personal accountability, but that clearly hasn't been working. Installing an app shouldn't eliminate 30 years of life savings.
kelthuzad•14m ago
This is the "think of the children" equivalent that is being regurgitated ad nauseam. Anyone who pretends that Apple cares about anything other than profit is lying to others and themselves.

>I agree there should be personal accountability, but that clearly hasn't been working.

It has been working on Android just fine. And if Apple is supposedly so concerned with security, then why did it take them so damn long to implement a simple mechanism to stop thieves from simply changing your password using your pin? Only after relentless pressure did they implement additional security, which took them far too long. The "security" ruse is nothing but propaganda to protect Apple's monopoly on app distribution.

[0] https://tidbits.com/2023/02/26/how-a-thief-with-your-iphone-...

gortok•1h ago
“Quality Control”?

Outside of the absolute bare minimum to check this box for a plurality of observers, I can’t imagine anyone actually saying the App Store has a quality control process with a straight face, especially not one that would be championed as acceptable as a market practice.

Rohansi•5m ago
The App Store "quality control" does its job (or tries to) to make sure developers aren't breaking their arbitrary rules. They would never actually do quality control because they benefit from all the junk being pushed to the App Store through their cut, search ads, etc.
glitchc•1h ago
10%. A finder's fee, like everything else irl. It should be regulated as such for all platforms.
ASalazarMX•1h ago
Wholeheartedly agree. 30% fee feels like medicare in USA, an excessive amount because it's as high as developers will pay without giving up and leaving.

The Apple App Store sold more than one trillion USD in 2024, how much of their 30% cut (300+ billion) covers operational costs? ¿10%?

brazukadev•1h ago
Whatever they want, but let me use MY phone to install whatever app I want outside of the app store.
gt0•1h ago
For me it's not about the percentage, it's that it is a monopoly. If I make an iPad app, my only route to market is Apple.

That is before I get into my personal objection to having to ask permission to put software on a computer I bought. I own an iPad but I can't just install anything I want on it, Apple needs to approve the software first. For me that's just anti-creative and anti-everying-I-love-about-computers.

All I really want as a software developer is to be able to write software and have people use it if they choose to. I don't want Apple or any other company inserted as a middle-man.

dreamcompiler•38m ago
So you believe quality control is part of the App Store review process?
827a•29m ago
IMO: Any number, as long as it is not expressed as a percentage.
yupyupyups•23m ago
Allow developers to distribute their apps outside of the app store, the cost apart for firmware maintenance and development will be 0.

Apple is not bringing its users value by prohibiting sideloading of arbitrary apps. Rather, this is an extreme example of rent-seeking which has affected almost all countries around the world. It needs to be regulated away.

radley•22m ago
They can charge whatever they want. But they can't force exclusivity. Without that, terms and benefits would be equitable.
stevage•11m ago
Payment processors like Stripe, Wise etc are typically taking around 1-2% so that's a good anchor.
Sophistifunk•10m ago
Thing is that's a question for the market to decide. Which is why we have anti-trust / anti-monopoly laws in the first place. We don't want the state setting "fair" prices for anything, it always backfires. We want them ensuring the market is free to set prices. Monopolies granted by the state (trademarks, copyright, patents) are specific and limited, and ideally we want monopolies that arise naturally to be similarly limited, or broken up if they are being weaponised against the public.
mikeiz404•1h ago
The EU tribunal judgement documents are here...

https://www.catribunal.org.uk/judgments/14037721-dr-rachael-...

giobox•1h ago
This isn't an EU judgement.
aydyn•20m ago
same difference dont get pedantic
celsoazevedo•12m ago
It's something worth pointing out as the UK isn't in the EU anymore.
bloppe•4m ago
Seriously? I thought that was a joke
europeisdoomed•31m ago
how can I sue Google and Apple for not letting me change my device’s MAC address (Pixel and iPhone) and internet companies for leaking my IP addresses for tracking my internet activity or to track me. Does it violate GDPR requirements?