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AI discovers a 5x faster MoE load balancing algorithm than human experts

https://adrs-ucb.notion.site/moe-load-balancing
71•melissapan•3h ago

Comments

accheng•3h ago
As an author of the blog, I'll note that this was one of the easiest applications of ADRS. Bowen, who was leading this effort, got things running within a day or two and the initial runs were with free Google credits! It was exciting to see how quickly these kinds of frameworks could be applied to real-world engineering and algorithmic challenges.
logicallee•2h ago
did AI explain its thinking, or could it have just stumbled upon the solution without designing it or understanding why it worked? i.e. could it have just been a hallucination that happened to work?
accheng•1h ago
This is a great question! By analyzing the logs of OpenEvolve with the full model outputs, we observed how the AI got its ideas (seemed to be pulling from literature in the space) and how it tried to apply them. So in some sense, it "reasoned" about how to get better algorithms. And we saw this process proceed systematically via the ADRS framework to converge to a significantly better algorithm
logicallee•1h ago
very interesting, thank you.
Izikiel43•19m ago
Can you confirm if this generated code is the same as https://arxiv.org/pdf/2402.02447 ?
_--__--__•1h ago
Nice result, but the snake pattern is pretty obvious and intuitive even for a human who just glances over the problem. It kinda breaks if there is huge variance (if the top load expert is orders of magnitude higher than #2 it probably should just get its own GPU), but I'm not familiar enough with MoE to know if that's a realistic possibility.
abmfy•1h ago
Thanks! In realistic workloads, the differences won’t be orders of magnitude.

I agree that this is a fairly simple problem. Experienced engineers—or anyone who has faced similar challenges—can quickly come up with such solutions. The key point, however, is that others might get stuck in their research simply because they don’t realize these quick solutions exist (“I don’t know what I don’t know”). AI helps bridge that gap by making expert-level knowledge accessible to every researcher, allowing them to focus more on exploring the truly unknown parts.

bgwalter•50m ago
Except that "AI" steals and mostly does not do citations.

EDIT: The chutzpah of downvoting this is striking. The paper says "surpasses highly optimized algorithms engineered by human experts to achieve a 5.0x speedup" and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45689663 links to a 2024 paper where humans discovered a 4.2x speedup using a snake pattern. The 2024 paper is not cited.

pakt1•47m ago
that's true for any application of AI :(
dzogchen•1h ago
Alternate title: “Human experts discover a 5x faster MoE load balancing algorithm using AI”
anonymous908213•6m ago
Better title: "Clueless humans use AI to plagiarise an algorithm they didn't know existed, assume they discovered it".

We are in the absolute worst timeline.

taqpos•55m ago
i wonder how hard it is to get the setup for AI to evolve on?
abmfy•45m ago
I spent 2~3 hours setting up, most of the time was spent on writing the evaluator

Actually I think the evaluator will be the most important part for the whole pipeline to work

accheng•44m ago
Yes, getting the right workloads and ensuring correctness are crucial parts of the process
qat321•53m ago
Really cool to see the AI-discovered algorithm is not just a theoretical result but is actually in a PR for vLLM. My question is about the code itself. Was the Python/PyTorch generated by OpenEvolve directly usable, or did it require significant human cleanup to make it readable, maintainable, and conform to the project's coding standards? I'm curious about how close we are to AI generating production-ready, human-editable code for complex algorithms.
abmfy•46m ago
It's directly usable, since it need to pass the evaluator first; also it contains clear comments about the intent
nomel•28m ago
I assume this means it still went through human review, more than the evaluator was complete enough to not require it?
bgwalter•51m ago
I'm not sure if this is the exact same thing, but a load balancing paper reported a 4.2x speedup by applying a "snake pattern" in 2024:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2402.02447

letitgo12345•48m ago
Seems the same tbh
abmfy•29m ago
Thanks for letting us know! While we’re tackling different problems, the core idea around load balancing is quite similar.

The pattern might be a familiar trick to those experienced with this kind of problem — you can see my thoughts on it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45688236#45689440

pos456•51m ago
this feels less like Copilot and more like AlphaGo for systems programming. it's not just finding patterns in existing code, but discovering novel and more efficient strategies in a given problem space. Very cool.
quc1k•45m ago
The final code might be fast, but is it understandable? The evolution process shows it tried a bunch of things that didn't work. The final result is a heuristic that won out based on a specific simulator and fitness function.
accheng•43m ago
The code was quite short and easy to read. Specifying the right scoring function and scoping the problem are key parts of getting good results with ADRS.
snklt•32m ago
does this only work for vLLM or is generally applicable?
mavt6•31m ago
i'm skeptical this generalizes beyond problems that can be expressed as "rearrange tensors faster". it feels like a solution that only works for a very narrow and convenient class of problems.
maven5t•26m ago
getting a 5x speedup for less than $10 and in just five hours is insane. the roi on this approach is going to be hard to beat.
joaohaas•24m ago
So, if I got this right, this is just about re-implementing an existing load balancing algorithm faster...? If so, this is really dumb. As you guys checked out, yes most load balancing algorithms are slow/dumb:

>First, we evaluate DeepSeek's open-source EPLB implementation. This employs a greedy bin-packing strategy: experts are sorted by load in descending order, and each is placed onto the least-loaded GPU that has capacity (Figure 3a, Example 1). While simple, the solution is slow because it written in Python and uses a for-loop to performs linear search for finding the best-fit GPU choice.

This is because when considering a load balancing algorithm, unless the work being done (in this case by the GPU) lasts only a few ms, the load balancing algorithm being fast will never be the bottleneck. The post does not mention whether this is the case at all.

Also, I don't want to sound rude, but if all they managed to get is a 5x increase over a simple python algorithm, I don't think this is impressive at all...? Any rewrite of the 'dumb' algorithm in a language with more memory control and cache continuity should result in much better results.

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