RIP, Steve.
I wonder if there will be fewer ads in countries they know that Apple Maps is worse than Google Maps?
The value proposition of Apple is that they're going to charge you 2x what they should for just about everything. But then, the software doesn't completely fuck you up the ass.
Which isn't even a very enticing value proposition. It's just that Google, Meta, and Microsoft suck so severely that it actually works. Consumers are actually willing to dole out double the funds for stuff that's slightly less hostile to use.
You're conflating the vendor lock-in with attractive user experience. The latter can (and should) easily exist without the former, e.g., any good FLOSS product. You only would create a walled garden (in order to not let users escape) if you plan enshittification.
Walled gardens degrade user experience in the long term, because they artificially hinder competition by not letting users switch to a better alternative when it appears.
But still, most consumers don't view it this way. Primarily because their usage of technology is not intentional. Which, unfortunately, also makes them prime targets to take advantage of.
Somehow I doubt ads are going to improve the quality of their data. Very discouraging to see Apple (allegedly) headed down this road.
I literally wrote the name of the bank + "bank" in the search field.
I got an ad for fucking backgammon at the top.
After a certain point, the greed has to stop. This is far too much.
That's also optional. Apple chooses to develop iOS because it becomes a new pathway for siphoning money from consumers and developers, and allows them to create their walled garden.
They could just stop at any point and use android or even off-the-shelf Linux with an OS mobile environment.
Hosting, bandwidth, discovery
Every platform charges something. Steam for example takes $100 PER GAME.
What we should be pitchforking about is why Apple isn't taking all that 30% to IMPROVE the App Store for USERS
Right, so as close to nothing as possible.
How much does it cost to host a tarball of an app? Maaaaaybe 15 cents?
> Steam for example takes $100 PER GAME.
Well that's not true.
> What we should be pitchforking about is why Apple isn't taking all that 30% to IMPROVE the App Store for USERS
That's exactly what I'm saying.
They're taking 30% and then doing fuck-all. I can maybe, MAYBE, buy the 30% if the appstore was some paradise on Earth and my iPhone gave me a blowjob. But that's not the case. So what are we paying for?
How long before they outright start selling our data along with all the exact bio-patterns gathered on the millions of Apple Watches out there?
Even if Tim Cook personally believes in privacy, there's no guarantee the next CEO after him will.
This is called "enshittification": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41277484
Do we all jump on Bing maps?
Open street map is a second but still...
https://x.com/charliebilello/status/1953643549435527320
Apple has bought back $704 billion in stock over the past 10 years, which is greater than the market cap of 488 companies in the S&P 500.The idea that "poor little Apple is struggling without enshittifying to microptimize profit opportunities" is an utter joke.
Firefox's abysmal market share, despite being, for the average user, a strictly better experience, would incline me to agree.
A lot has changed in the tech industry, but the rapidity of hiring and expansion of headcount just seems to have engendered a broad homogenization of business strategies, design conventions, and product vision. I think they started hiring people based on narrow defined ideas about skills and resumes to fit certain roles and they all end up shuffling the same bunch of people around across the same incestuous company hiring pipelines until they’re all doing stints at every company and driving them in the same broad direction.
This would just be more ads.
Also, with Waydroid, I can run most Android apps.
The frogs don’t have to wait and see if the pot is boiling, they have a pot named Android right next to them for a direct temperature comparison and other Maps apps available. If I lose screen space to ads in my native Apple apps then I’m out. How is the money they are getting from hardware sales and their developer fees not enough? I don’t see how the execs can’t tell how damaging this is to their brand image.
Apple used to be something you accepted because you were filled with rage at Microsoft. Then Apple was something that cost extra money but it had good software and cross device integration. Then Apple’s software quality went down noticeably, but I stuck with them because at least I figured my data was slightly safer on an Apple device. But now if they’re using my data to sell ads they don’t even have a privacy angle. Apple now lags Android flagships in features, costs at least as much, and also sells my data.
I’m out.
Where are you going? See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261
Android phones have some neat features, the hardest part is deciding which phone to pick.
The article says "The project will apparently give restaurants and other businesses the option to pay to have their details featured more prominently in search."
It doesn't sound like it will affect screen space of the map view in any way.
And software needs to make money. Their map data is hugely expensive to purchase and produce -- Maps isn't just a little app like Notes, it costs $$$$$ to develop and keep current. Apple isn't a charity. If you're out, who are you going to switch to? Are there OSM apps that are free without ads with the same level of functionality?
The main killer would be lack of real time traffic data. I don't think there's any open source maps that provides this.
The frequency at which it updates for me doesn't seem like it'd be usable for traffic estimation.
Also, slow traffic is slow. If you're stuck in gridlock, even if your location only updates once every 5 minutes, that might just be 5 blocks. Average that across a quarter of all vehicles and that should be plenty of data for block-level traffic estimation.
Where I live, between updates I see on location tracking (when not actively using maps), you can even walk different routes from one point to another.
That's why I've had the feeling that the frequency for traffic must be higher than the frequency for location / timeline tracking.
A business needs to make money. Apple, as a business, makes money. They might want to make more money by increasing advertising, but surely they, of all businesses, don’t need to.
But Maps is orders of magnitude more expensive than other apps because of the data. Maps isn't just a feature, it's an ongoing service. It's not unreasonable that they recoup some of the money with more prominence given to paid search results.
I don't hear people complaining much about the advertising that has been on Google Maps since forever. So I don't understand what's working people up here. These aren't banner ads. Apple is a business. And you can use Apple Maps over the web, without paying Apple a cent. You really think Apple should be a charity and do this stuff entirely for free?
It’s not even a little reasonable for them to have ads. Especially since I also pay them a monthly fee for services.
And if you're paying them a monthly subscription for iCloud storage or Apple TV or something, I don't see what that has to do with a Maps. You don't get Apple TV for free if you pay for iCloud either. Different services are different services.
Do you think restaurants should just always give you a free appetizer every time you walk in because sometimes you order entrees there?
If they were really greedy, they could require a subscription for Maps. I might even accept that.
I will not accept ads. I paid quite a lot extra specifically to avoid ads.
Show me where their advertising says their hardware runs Maps without ads, where they make that claim. Because I've certainly never seen it.
Again, you know Apple Maps works on web browsers too? It's not only for Apple devices. You don't need to pay Apple a dime.
I really don't know what contract you're imagining where you think you've "paid quite a lot extra specifically" to Apple and they promised you no ads in Maps in exchange.
I certainly don't remember any keynote ever saying "and we promise to keep Maps ad-free whenever it's running on Apple hardware!"
Why are you defending ads? I've never encountered someone insisting companies should do more of them, especially if they clearly don't need the revenue. Are you ok?
Because I'm realistic about the fact that money doesn't grow on trees, and businesses only keep things around in the long-term that clearly contribute to the bottom line.
> especially if they clearly don't need the revenue
Pretty much everyone with shares in Apple would very much like more revenue because those shares become more valuable. There's no such thing as shares that "don't need" to grow anymore.
> Are you ok?
How about we don't talk like that on HN? See:
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"Be kind. Don't be snarky... Edit out swipes."
Google Maps sometimes shows ads while searching for a bike route, which can be dangerous when on the move. These are unsolicited. Hope Apple can design advertising the right way without violating user experience.
It is distracting and takes attention away while for example, stopping, pointing and relocating the map at a red light. It happened several times, have several screenshots but not sure how to share them here. These might be edge cases that most people will not experience since most in the US don't ride bikes.
I’m not talking about switching apps, I’m talking about switching phones, and I’ll save on the price of an Apple One subscription and give it to other companies. If all the options are doing the same thing, what differentiates Apple? It’s not their software quality anymore. It’s not their privacy stance anymore. It’s not camera quality. It’s not screen quality. It’s not price. I might as well shop around.
They either build something as effective and invasive as what Google and Meta have, and prioritise ad revenue as much as those companies do.
Or they stay closer to the ineffective ad network they already have in News, App Store, etc, neither putting their money where their cultural mouth is nor becoming an ad revenue behemoth.
If I do a search for coffee shops, it doesn't take much targeting to figure out I'm interested in coffee shops. Same with pizza or grocery store or gas station.
For Maps search results, I expect the revenue will be plenty effective without having to be "invasive" at all.
Each and every piece of software from Apple needs to make money? I just checked here, last year they made $391.035B in revenue. Is there any software from Apple that NEEDS to make money? Is this really a fair and honest take?
Because it's never enough.
Even with 180b USD in profit last year.
We badly need a good open phone with an open source OS. Choosing a more open phone shouldn't mean having to settle for five year old hardware.
Ahahaha. Endless growth, babyyyy
Apple is not stupid, so I guess their research shows that this is not a common enough sentiment that adding ads will measurably hamper sales.
To someone who loathes ads (like me), this is a tragedy.
I'd say this is testing waters, seeing how big backlash will be. The sad part may be they may be right and limited loss with power users will be outweighed by ads income. After all, ads are the sole revenue stream for giants like Google or Meta, too juicy to ignore where no other breakthrough is in sight.
People keep expecting Apple to be something else than a profit oriented company.
So far, the proportion of their revenue coming from ads is still lower than google by far, hence statistically I have less chances of being the product with them, hence I choose them.
I definitely don’t choose them because their products are better. The hardware and its software support duration, maybe, but the software is definitely worse than google’s, especially assistant and maps.
Until now Apple has been relatively decent about prioritizing user experience; and if not that then about respecting privacy. Ads are aligned with neither.
This is the kind of thing some jackass worked out in a spreadsheet and then decided the profit outweighs whatever customer backlash.
Stuff like this is a huge red flag for the future direction of Apple.
Of course Tim is only concerned whether you bought an iPhone to your mom.
Apple Further Expanding into Ads, Now Directly Selling Ads in News App (macrumors.com)
4 points by ksec 11 months ago | 1 comment
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34299433
Apple's collection of user data hard to stop says report (appleinsider.com)'
44 points by janandonly on April 11, 2024 1 comment
(I’ll simply keep using the superior Google Maps anyway. I’m sure it has has ads but it hasn’t bothered me.)
Let me be clear: ads for Apple products and non Apple products have existed as a part of the default user experience in Apple products. Whether you noticed or not is merely whether you paid attention.
Apple does this, they destroy the only differentiator they had.
When I buy Apple, I pay a premium price for a premium product.
I would rather you simple charge me more for my product.
The ways ads work, is that the ad revenue shows up in the company’s revenue, and very quickly the company has to increase ad load across every surface to meet earnings expectations. The user experience deteriorates, getting worse each year.
When I buy Apple, it’s based on my expectation that Apple will remain a premium, ad-free experience for the life of the device. When, after my purchase, Apple make the product worse, like with the recent iOS update that rolled back usability, it destroys a lot of trust.
I will leave the ecosystem.
This is not in Apple’s long term best interests.
Ok so not only will it be unpleasant it will also be terrible at actually being relevant
When I buy Apple, I pay a premium price for a premium product.
The ways ads work, is that the ad revenue shows up in the company’s quarterly earnings, and very quickly the company has to increase ad load across every surface to meet earnings expectations. The user experience deteriorates, getting worse each year.
When I buy Apple, it’s based on my expectation that Apple will remain a premium, mostly ad-free experience for the life of the device. When, after my purchase, they make the product worse, like with the recent iOS update that rolled back usability, it destroys a lot of trust.
I will leave the ecosystem.
This is not in Apple’s long term best interests.
Due to some misguided loyalty, I usually search for places in AM fist, then switch to Google. I still don't see viable alternatives to their operating systems, but it's clearly time to de-apple wherever you can.
And we think you're gonna love it!
It has NEVER given me directions. I live in a non-EU country and not in the US. Small island. It shows all the roads, shops and everything but for some arbitrary reason it won’t do navigation here.
Never touched it again since Google maps is perfect. (Aside from the occasional off-road routing).
Driving home last night, CarPlay is active, and I have navigation on, and it's driving me home.
I need a snack. Press the button on my steering wheel. "Get directions to Panera Bread."
"Sorry, I don't know where you are."
I get it, permissions, but the hilarity of "this is how you interact with CarPlay, or one of the ways, but is broken".
Ads have no place in a map app.
As for ads on Apple Maps itself, it may generate some revenue in the US and a few other countries. Elsewhere (like in India and many other countries), Apple has practically neglected Apple Maps and it sucks terribly even in large cities. Google, with all its tracking and other issues (including map accuracy issues), keeps moving at breakneck speed on Google Maps.
Apple’s single minded focus on the US with severe lethargy in other countries is why in most countries where (some/many) people use Apple devices, they use Google’s services. Both Eddy Cue and Tim Cook are squarely to be blamed for this greed, laziness and lack of vision or strategy.
In France it's just so much worse that it is a bit of a joke. When you search for stuff, not only is the information not necessarily correct but the way the information is displayed is not as good/useful and feels extremely neutered like an asepticized listing with no qualities. There are rarely pictures (both outside/inside), opening hours and distance are poorly displayed (when they exist in the first place) and functionally it is harder to use.
The whole thing reeks of rigid/psychotic thinking. It feels like a bureaucrat was tasked to fill in a form and he is not doing it with much enthusiasm.
Apple was supposedly the company for creatives, yet most of their software feels like you are operating in some modernized version of a Soviet system. It's not beautiful, it's barely functional and it's inefficient. They spend a ton of space on oversized UI buttons and useless informations that has to fit in dedicated box without overflowing.
Apple Maps is the perfect example of how bad Apple has become and their inability to build software for the most common use case of today's computing devices: organizing and accessing information.
Google is winning not just because of the monopoly; they became monopoly because the competitors got complacent and Apple is one of the few who could truly compete, yet they refuse to do so. Considering money isn't the problem, puttings Ads to get more money will only make thing worse.
I just installed Open Street Map (the iOS app is called OsmAnd) and it looks nice! Zoom in/out is much better than on Apple Maps. A quick check of a route I know produced a good map, so I'll start using OSM from now on.
The App Store ones are a nuisance and are never the app I'm searching for.
I'm expecting the same degraded experience with Map.
There are other apps that use Openstreetmap data, such as Organic Maps.
kylehotchkiss•3mo ago
gdulli•3mo ago
Again, I have no idea if they have this relationship with Yelp, I'm just speculating if it's like the Google deal.
drewda•3mo ago
windexh8er•3mo ago
I mean they already do this with preferred apps in the App Store (e.g. preferred revenue sharing for apps like Uber), so why wouldn't they do this in maps? The Apple "privacy" brand has been a sales pitch of questionable validity since it started. Apple only cares about privacy enough to keep its users from being a front page headline, nothing more.
ezfe•3mo ago
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