at Cloudflare scale, absolutely. But today? Find a friend that lives in a different legal jusrisdiction that you trust. Install Tailscale on a raspberry pi Zero. Configure it all up. Send it to your friend. Get it on their wifi. Set up the corresponding app on your phone. Connect to it and use it as your exit node.
Voila, VPN!
aborsy•3mo ago
This is something that everyone says and nobody does.
Do your friends do that?
The majority of people have no idea what is VPN or Tailscale and would be suspicious that you might be placing a hacking device or proxy for visiting bad websites in their home.
kro•3mo ago
Some people also do run Tor exit nodes on their ISP connections, of course receiving tons of abuse complaints, but apparently it's legal enough.
inemesitaffia•3mo ago
So people may be willing to do it for strangers in exchange for paying the bills.
yoavm•3mo ago
My siblings and I live in 3 different continents. We use Tailscale exactly for that. It's also installed on some of the VPS I own, so all-in-all we have around 7 exit nodes in different countries to choose from. It was really a breeze to set up.
The best part is that our IPs never seemed to be blocked by any service provider.
spwa4•3mo ago
Isn't ssh -D + configuring a socks proxy in your browser a lot easier and faster? (using one of the many proxy switcher extensions) It would only work for the browser (although you do have socksify), but much quicker to set up and only ssh needs to work. No software install whatsoever. I mean, at least for VPSes, of course this won't work without an IP to connect to, or an IP behind NAT.
But: no software install.
fragmede•3mo ago
Where do you SSH to? You need to install sshd on that system somewhere, somehow? Your preferred software seems easier to install, and it is, for you. Others don't have the same experience though.
How do you configure apps on your phone to use a socks proxy?
We could rathole on what constitutes "a lot" easier, but that doesn't seem interesting so I'll just point out that there's a Tailscale app for Apple TV.
dns_snek•3mo ago
Consider the case where a non-technical person wants to watch US streaming services from their smartphone. No software install, but 5% of the features and 1% of the usability.
yoavm•3mo ago
With Tailscale, my clients and my exit nodes can easily include Windows machines, Apple laptops, Android phones etc. And I can explain to my siblings how to set it up in 5 minutes, without them ever needing to hear about a terminal.
fragmede•3mo ago
The thing that Tailscale also allows you to do is access systems on the tailnet, without exposing those servers to the Internet. For the self-hoster with friends, this is really really useful.
Do I think this is a thing that more people than you think are doing? Given that you're questioning if it happens at all, I'd say yes.
Do I think this is at all common or normal? Absolutely not. My friends and their friends are very technical compared to the general population, so it's not surprising that something "weird" like this would be overrepresented, but even then it's not commonplace to share with friends. You really need some tight-knit bonds in order for it to work. Bonds that many people don't have a ton of.
I should mention though, it's not just "bad" websites. A lot of websites geolocate, and for foreign nationals, those websites don't make content available outside the country (for whatever reason). So for a taste of streaming TV from home, a residential proxy in the home country does the trick to let them watch "local" news of home.
silisili•3mo ago
There's zero chance I'd put some random device from anyone, even a friend, on my network - especially if I knew that was its purpose. Sounds like a huge liability. Do people really do this?
gear54rus•3mo ago
Definitely. In the age of the internet where stupid 'legal'/commercial/whatever other restrictions are the norm it's the only way to guarantee access.
hansvm•3mo ago
It depends on the friend, but I definitely wouldn't be opposed to it.
pirates•3mo ago
Random device? In this scenario you and your friends would have already hashed out what exactly they’re sending you and what it’s for, right?
invaliduser•3mo ago
Most people have no sense of security. They say yes to strangers if asked to plug in a USB device on their laptop. When I said no in the train to someone asking to plug their device "for charging", I was definitely the bad guy.
Just find anything plausible, for backup storage, or say, to share family photos with grand parents but it does not work on my home wifi because my ISP is blocking ports, whatever.
Arainach•3mo ago
So now the plan is to lie to people to get them to do something for you under false pretenses?
3oil3•2mo ago
Ah man, this must be rethorics and you wouldn't lie to a friend close enough to do such a favour, would you?
WHo the h is after you guys anyway, to want such level of degraded-internet-speed?
And about 'Warp', is it or is it not a VPN after-all? They mentionned they aren't a VPN, but that they build on wireguard ??
invaliduser•2mo ago
I wouldn't lie even to strangers, and my point was solely about people having little to no sense of security.
mattrighetti•2mo ago
> Sounds like a huge liability.
This 100%.
I don't think this is being discussed enough but I frequently see a lot of landlords trying to make their contract more attractive by including an internet offer with the rent (this is especially useful for people that look for 6-months contracts when internet providers usually give you a minimum contract length of a year).
Tenants could technically do any kind of illegal activities by using that network. I've always wondered how and who would be liable in case someone uncovers something big enough to get the attention of law enforcement.
I guess this differs by country but it seems highly plausible that a legal loophole could exist, leaving the landlord unexpectedly responsible for the tenant's actions.
walletdrainer•2mo ago
> I guess this differs by country but it seems highly plausible that a legal loophole could exist, leaving the landlord unexpectedly responsible for the tenant's actions.
Not in any normal country.
> who would be liable in case someone uncovers something big enough to get the attention of law enforcement
The person doing the crimes, obviously. The cops would most likely never even contact the landlord, as they’d just show up at the address where the line is connected.
walletdrainer•2mo ago
> Sounds like a huge liability
Not really, you aren’t responsible for what other people do without your knowledge and you’d have solid evidence that someone else was able to use your network.
Sure, if your friend was committing some horrible crimes it might end up being slightly inconvenient for you.
fragmede•2mo ago
If your "friend" uses it to download CSAM, you're in for a world of trouble. I don't know that none of my friends aren't into that stuff, but sincerely believe the friends I share a tailnet or two with aren't doing that with my connection. Tailscale has Mullvad VPN exit node integration for sketchy shit, this is more about getting access to eg Swedish television for a friend's girlfriend who gets homesick every once in a while.
vjerancrnjak•3mo ago
Won’t work if behind CGNAT or will be insanely slow. Even ipv6 is not advertised sometimes.
I miss the days when I could ssh to my computer with ddns.
hdgvhicv•3mo ago
Choose an isp which gives you a static ipv4 address then.
vjerancrnjak•3mo ago
Hard to find. I ask for advertising an ipv6 address and they don’t want to do that. Even though they give me an ipv6 prefix.
Jnr•3mo ago
Tailscale uses STUN to do hole punching, there is a big chance that nodes would be able to achieve direct connection even if both are behind NAT.
mintflow•3mo ago
Exit node really is a handy solution for build private vpn for sharing.
I have build a vpn called Echo VPN for apple platform which actually use tailscale open source core.
Also I think there is another benefit is that wireguard can be DPIed easily now adays, but DERP leverage HTTPS and upgrade which can do some obfuscation too
rasengan•3mo ago
There’s the VPN technologies and then there are VPN services [1]. Technology alone does not give you the service.
fragmede•3mo ago
Voila, VPN!
aborsy•3mo ago
Do your friends do that?
The majority of people have no idea what is VPN or Tailscale and would be suspicious that you might be placing a hacking device or proxy for visiting bad websites in their home.
kro•3mo ago
inemesitaffia•3mo ago
yoavm•3mo ago
The best part is that our IPs never seemed to be blocked by any service provider.
spwa4•3mo ago
But: no software install.
fragmede•3mo ago
How do you configure apps on your phone to use a socks proxy?
We could rathole on what constitutes "a lot" easier, but that doesn't seem interesting so I'll just point out that there's a Tailscale app for Apple TV.
dns_snek•3mo ago
yoavm•3mo ago
fragmede•3mo ago
Do I think this is a thing that more people than you think are doing? Given that you're questioning if it happens at all, I'd say yes.
Do I think this is at all common or normal? Absolutely not. My friends and their friends are very technical compared to the general population, so it's not surprising that something "weird" like this would be overrepresented, but even then it's not commonplace to share with friends. You really need some tight-knit bonds in order for it to work. Bonds that many people don't have a ton of.
I should mention though, it's not just "bad" websites. A lot of websites geolocate, and for foreign nationals, those websites don't make content available outside the country (for whatever reason). So for a taste of streaming TV from home, a residential proxy in the home country does the trick to let them watch "local" news of home.
silisili•3mo ago
gear54rus•3mo ago
hansvm•3mo ago
pirates•3mo ago
invaliduser•3mo ago
Just find anything plausible, for backup storage, or say, to share family photos with grand parents but it does not work on my home wifi because my ISP is blocking ports, whatever.
Arainach•3mo ago
3oil3•2mo ago
And about 'Warp', is it or is it not a VPN after-all? They mentionned they aren't a VPN, but that they build on wireguard ??
invaliduser•2mo ago
mattrighetti•2mo ago
This 100%.
I don't think this is being discussed enough but I frequently see a lot of landlords trying to make their contract more attractive by including an internet offer with the rent (this is especially useful for people that look for 6-months contracts when internet providers usually give you a minimum contract length of a year).
Tenants could technically do any kind of illegal activities by using that network. I've always wondered how and who would be liable in case someone uncovers something big enough to get the attention of law enforcement.
I guess this differs by country but it seems highly plausible that a legal loophole could exist, leaving the landlord unexpectedly responsible for the tenant's actions.
walletdrainer•2mo ago
Not in any normal country.
> who would be liable in case someone uncovers something big enough to get the attention of law enforcement
The person doing the crimes, obviously. The cops would most likely never even contact the landlord, as they’d just show up at the address where the line is connected.
walletdrainer•2mo ago
Not really, you aren’t responsible for what other people do without your knowledge and you’d have solid evidence that someone else was able to use your network.
Sure, if your friend was committing some horrible crimes it might end up being slightly inconvenient for you.
fragmede•2mo ago
vjerancrnjak•3mo ago
I miss the days when I could ssh to my computer with ddns.
hdgvhicv•3mo ago
vjerancrnjak•3mo ago
Jnr•3mo ago
mintflow•3mo ago
I have build a vpn called Echo VPN for apple platform which actually use tailscale open source core.
Also I think there is another benefit is that wireguard can be DPIed easily now adays, but DERP leverage HTTPS and upgrade which can do some obfuscation too