1. Agentic AI systems are hard to measure and evaluate methodologically.
2. Quote from Salesforce analyst day: "it's been so easy to build a killer demo, but why has it been so hard to get agents that actually deliver the goods.”
3. Unfortunately, small errors tend to compound over time, which means most systems need a human in the loop as of 2025.
4. A lot of enterprise buyers feel the huge potential (and FOMO), yet ROI is still unclear as of 2025. MIT report "State of AI in business 2025": Despite $30–40 billion in enterprise investment into GenAI, 95% of organizations are not seeing profit and loss impact.
We've got a sort of "business intelligence" AI they poured a lot of time and money into, and I don't think anyone really uses it because it makes stuff up.
I'm sure there are things. I just haven't seen them. I would love to hear concrete examples.
The cynic in me says I wouldn't want something with the error aptitude and truth telling of a small child taking any sort of important action on my behalf.
>> While AI is strictly deterministic - it is technically chaotic
AI is neither deterministic nor chaotic. It is nondeterministic because it works based on probability, which means that for open-ended contexts it can be unpredictable. But properly engineered agentic AI workflows can drastically reduce and even completely eliminate the unpredictability. Having proper guardrails such as well-defined prompts, validations and fallbacks in place can help ensure mistakes made by AIs don't result in errors in your system.
LLMs are computation, they are very complex, but they are deterministic. If you run one on the same device, in the same state, with exactly the same input parameters multiple times, you will always get the same result. This is the case for every possible program. Most of the time, we don’t run them with exactly the same input parameters, or we run them on different devices, or some part of the state of the system has changed between runs, which could all potentially result in a different outcome (which, incidentally, is also the case for every possible program).
GPU operations on floating point are generally not deterministic and are subject to the whims of the scheduler
the mathematics might be
but not on a GPU, because floating point numbers are an approximation, and their operations are not commutative
if the GPUs internal scheduler reorders the operations you will get a different outcome
remember GPUs were designed to render quake, where drawing pixels slightly off is imperceptible
Eg. An auto email parser that extracts an "action" - I just don't trust that the action will be accurate and precise enough to execute without rereading the email (hence defeating the purpose of the agent)
A deterministic function/algorithm always gives the same output given the same input.
LLMs are deterministic if you control all parameters, including the “temperature” and random “seed”. Same input (and params) -> same output.
If your system is only deterministic if it processes its huge web of interconnected agentic prompts in exactly the same order, then its behavior is not deterministic in any sense that could ever be important in the context of predictable and repeatable system behavior. If I ask you whether it will handle the same task the same exact way, and its handling of it involves lots of concurrent calls that are never guaranteed to be ordered the same way, then you can't answer "yes".
Large Language Models (LLMs) are not perfectly deterministic even with temperature set to zero , due to factors like dynamic batching, floating-point variations, and internal model implementation details. While temperature zero makes the model choose the most probable token at each step, which is a greedy, "deterministic" strategy, these other technical factors introduce subtle, non-deterministic variations in the output
That's already the case. Payments are not deterministic. It can take multiple days for things to settle. The real world is messy.
When I make a payment I have no clue if the money is actually going to make it to a merchant or if some fraud system will block it.
If you were on a real flight, asking a qualified human - like a trained pilot - would result in a very deterministic checklist.
Deterministic responses to emergencies is at least half of the training from the time we get a PPL.
Some things need to be deterministic. Many don’t.
Even your business will have many such problems that don’t need 100% all those properties - every task performed by a human for example. You as a developer are not all of these things 100%!
And your help query may need to be deterministic but does it need to be explainable? Many ml solutions aren’t really explainable, certainly not to 100% whatever that may mean, but can easily be deterministic.
You just described how you get your google account locked... :-)
You log the interaction, you see what happened, no?
If you measure success by unit test failures or by the presence of the bug those behaviors can obscure that the LLM wasn't able to do the intended fix. Of course a closer inspection will still reveal what happened, but using proxy measurements to track success is dangerous, especially if the LLM knows about them or if the task description implies improving that metric "a unit test is failing, fix that"
*shrug*
These, outside of employee resistance are technical problems. The insistence they aren’t seems to be the root of the misunderstanding around these tools. The reality is that “computers that speak English” are, at face value, incredibly impressive. But there’s nothing inherent to said systems that makes them easier to integrate with than computers which speak C. In fact I’d argue it’s harder because natural languages are significantly less precise.
Communication and integration is incredibly challenging because you’re trying to transfer states between systems. When you let “the machine carry a larger share of the burden,” as Dijkstra described of the presumed benefit of natural language programming but actual downside[0], you’re also forfeiting a large amount of control. It is for the same reason that word problems are considered more challenging than equations in math class. With natural languages the states being communicated are much less clear than with formal languages and much of the burden assumed to be transferred to the machine is returned in the form of an increase in required specificity and preciseness of which formal languages already solve for.
None of this is to say these tools aren’t useful nor that they cannot be deployed successfully. It is instead to say that the seduction of computers which speak English is more exactly that. These tools are incredibly easy to use to impress, and much more challenging to use to extract value.
0: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667...
The integration parts aren’t natural language issues but connecting systems and how to put these things in your workflow.
For example. I have a bunch of off the cuff questions and problems and tasks. I want to have these in one place and have that trigger a conversation with ChatGPT, which shows the results in the first place but can be continued easily.
Before it was added the other week, I could track issues in linear and I could have codex write the code to solve them but only by manually moving text from one place to another, manually moving the tickets, checking on progress, click g buttons to open prs - all of that is integration hassle but none is about the model itself. I think now with GitHub copilot I could just assign a task.
We’re saying the same thing. Integration is the hard (still technical) part.
Except it's worse than that because we'll all end up having to do it anyway, because the overall velocity of emitted working code will be faster, and productivity > all.
advikipedia•4h ago
A few patterns emerged that might be relevant to anyone working on applied AI or automation:
- The main blockers aren’t technical. Most founders pointed to workflow integration, employee trust, and data privacy as the toughest challenges — not model performance.
- Incremental deployment beats ambition. Successful teams focus on narrow, verifiable use cases that deliver measurable ROI and build user trust before scaling autonomy.
- Enterprise adoption is uneven. Many companies have “some agents” in production, but most use them with strong human oversight. The fully autonomous cases remain rare.
- Pricing is unresolved. Hybrid models dominate; pure outcome-based pricing is uncommon due to attribution and monitoring challenges.
Infrastructure is mostly homegrown. Over half of surveyed startups build their own agentic stacks, citing limited flexibility in existing frameworks.
The article also includes detailed case studies, commentary on autonomy vs. accuracy trade-offs, and what’s next for ambient and proactive agents.
If you’re building in this space, the full report is free here: https://mmc.vc/research/state-of-agentic-ai-founders-edition...
Would be interested to hear how others on HN are thinking about real-world deployment challenges — especially around trust, evaluation, and scaling agentic systems.
Etheryte•4h ago
barrenko•3h ago
refactor_master•3h ago
Sure, it then becomes a technical challenge to work around those limits, but that may be cost/time prohibitive.
1718627440•3h ago
IanCal•2h ago
One is technical (it’s a hassle to connect things to a specific system because you’d need to deal with the api or there is no api)
The other isn’t, because it’s figuring out how and where to use these new tools in an existing workflow. Maybe you could design something from scratch but you have lots of business processes right now, how do you smoothly modify that? Where does it make sense?
Frankly understanding what the systems can and can’t do takes at least some time even if only because the field is moving so fast (I worked with a small local firm who I was able to help by showing them the dramatic improvements in transcription quality vs cost recently - people here are more used to whisper and the like but it’s not as common knowledge how and where you can use these things).
advikipedia•2h ago
DrScientist•2h ago
Some key challenges around workflow are that while the fundamental white-board task flow is the same, different companies may distribute those tasks between people and over time in different ways.
Workflow is about flowing the task and associated information between people - not just doing the tasks.
Same goes for integration - the timing of when certain necessary information might be available again not uniform and timing concerns are often missed on the high level whiteboard.
Here's a classic example of ignoring timing issues.
https://www.harrowell.org.uk/blog/2017/03/19/universal-credi...
baxtr•3h ago
What does that even mean? Are you trying to say that the problem isn’t that the AI models are bad — it’s that it’s hard to get people to use them naturally in their daily work?
Arnechos•2h ago
sigwinch•1h ago
thatjoeoverthr•3h ago
ChrisMarshallNY•2h ago
It just looks like the highly-polished marketing copy I’ve read, all my career. It’s entirely possible that it was edited by AI (a task that I have found useful), but I think that it’s actually a fairly important (to the firm) paper, and was likely originally written by their staff (or a consultant), and carefully edited.
I do feel as if it’s a promotional effort, but HN often features promotional material, if it is of interest to our community.